First fair sans fight? (0-2-0)

[King_Dom470]

Bloodlusted means they'll do anything to win and Basically start with their most lethal options

Lo and behold, Sans' Telekinesis is the literal last thing he does that deals damage and it deals the lowest damage per anything else he does lol

If I give him prior knowledge then?

 

[King_Dom470]

I gave sans prior knowledge so he knows to abuse his tk now

 

[ShionAH]

Okay so I gotta say Sans is way smarter with his powers so he will outsmart and outskill.

Sans is faster and has instictive action which makes him untouchable basically.

Karma is a BIIITCH

Spot barely uses his BFR in 2-A Range

Sans seems to have advantage and now he has prior knowledge? Uhh why?

 

[King_Dom470]

Okay so I gotta say Sans is way smarter with his powers so he will outsmart and outskill.

Sans is faster and has instictive action which makes him untouchable basically.

Karma is a BIIITCH

Spot barely uses his BFR in 2-A Range

Sans seems to have advantage and now he has prior knowledge? Uhh why?

Because otherwise it was a stomp in the spots favour l. Now that I gave him prior knowledge he knows to abuse his tk which is the only way he could hurt spot.

 

[Razor]

Okay so I gotta say Sans is way smarter with his powers so he will outsmart and outskill.

Sans is faster and has instictive action which makes him untouchable basically.

Karma is a BIIITCH

Spot barely uses his BFR in 2-A Range

Sans seems to have advantage and now he has prior knowledge? Uhh why?

No he's not, he's a genius to spot's extraordinary genius. Even if you argue that the spot's intelligence justification involves non combat applicable stuff I can also say the same stuff for sans'.

No it doesn't and I already explained why, the spot is able to overwhelm miles who has wayy better senses than sans' and someone who doesnt even have superior speed to the spot. He was also dogging 3 other spider people with comparable skills and senses to miles.

True, but he doesn't need to. BFR wasn't his main wincon anyways since it's not an opening move. It's the fact that he breathes on sans and atomizes him and that he's able to counteract people with way more impressive senses than sans' at the same time.

 

[ShionAH]

No he's not, he's a genius to spot's extraordinary genius. Even if you argue that the spot's intelligence justification involves non combat applicable stuff I can also say the same stuff for sans'.

Spot is extraordinary genius because he is a scientist while Sans has it because of his information analysis skills, high IQ in manipulation while also having a high battle IQ.

I can also likely downgrade Spot to genius since the reasoning is not enough, sans has better intelligence feats but is not extraordinary

No it doesn't and I already explained why, the spot is able to overwhelm miles who has wayy better senses than sans' and someone who doesnt even have superior speed to the spot. He was also dogging 3 other spider people with comparable skills and senses to miles.

He was dodging them wtih his powers not because of his insane dodging skills. Spot uses portals to dodge which makes it way easier while Sans simply...dodges.

I also want to say theres no scene where we see Miles being able to do stuff while sleeping so spider sense is not better than Sans

True, but he doesn't need to. BFR wasn't his main wincon anyways since it's not an opening move. It's the fact that he breathes on sans and atomizes him

Oh noo sans can be one shotted oh noo what will we ever dooo!!

Bro thats literally every single sans match. Look at his matches, he won against 2-C characters. Spot aint touching sans since his BIQ is shit

and that he's able to counteract people with way more impressive senses than sans' at the same time.

Again wanking his skill for some reason.

 

[King_Dom470]

I can also likely downgrade Spot to genius since the reasoning is not enough, sans has better intelligence feats but is not extraordinary

Making a miniature super collider that’s capable of transporting you into another universe isn’t reasoning enough?

 

[ShionAH]

Making a miniature super collider that’s capable of transporting you into another universe isn’t reasoning enough?

Look at what sans did. If thats not considered Extraordinary then no.

I will try upgrading sans though instead of downgrading Spot

 

[King_Dom470]

He was dodging them wtih his powers not because of his insane dodging skills. Spot uses portals to dodge which makes it way easier while Sans simply...dodges.

Should also point out that the spot can teleport without the use of his portals in this form

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Spot created a micro collider with spare parts and minimal prep time, bruv. Shit like that is a common extraordinary genius feat

 

[Razor]

Spot is extraordinary genius because he is a scientist while Sans has it because of his information analysis skills, high IQ in manipulation while also having a high battle IQ.

I can also likely downgrade Spot to genius since the reasoning is not enough, sans has better intelligence feats but is not extraordinary

He was dodging them wtih his powers not because of his insane dodging skills. Spot uses portals to dodge which makes it way easier while Sans simply...dodges.

I also want to say theres no scene where we see Miles being able to do stuff while sleeping so spider sense is not better than Sans

Oh noo sans can be one shotted oh noo what will we ever dooo!!

Bro thats literally every single sans match. Look at his matches, he won against 2-C characters. Spot aint touching sans since his BIQ is shit

Again wanking his skill for some reason.

Uh no hes not? at least thats not what's being said on his profile. All his justifications are not info analysis or ANY mention of BIQ.

Alright feel free to do so.

Who brought up the spot dodging? He didnt even need to dodge. He overwhelmed them so much that they couldnt land a hit on him.

What? When has reacting in your sleep been superior to straight up precog? the spider sense blows sans' out the water. Since it doesnt provide any proof his instinctive action can even allow him to dodge someone faster than him unlike precog.

The spot's BIQ is shit? Where the hell did you get that from lmao.

 

[Razor]

"While Sans is lazy, he has shown incredible skill and proficiency in science and physics, with him presumably reads quantum physics books in his off-time.[6] Sans is so perceptive that he can perfectly deduce how many times Chara has died and tried again through Time Travel just by looking at their expression, and he can also guess if Chara has already killed him but has reset the timeline just to fight him again. Most notably, Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction.[note 1] Sans has a Workshop located in the basement of his house, which contains blueprints of unfamiliar handwriting or symbols which relate to a "strange machine", presumably referring to the broken machine covered up in the same room. It is unknown what the machine does or its purpose, but it shows the proficiency of Sans craftiness nonetheless" The only thing here thats even remotely combat applicable is him deducing how many times chara has diedby looking at their expression, and I dont know how that allows him to counteract the spot in any way.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Btw I'm pretty sure Spot can get out of TK by just throwing a portal on himself and appearing elsewhere on the battlefield

Also I don't think I've seen enough mention of attack reflection via his portals, no?

 

[Razor]

Btw I'm pretty sure Spot can get out of TK by just throwing a portal on himself and appearing elsewhere on the battlefield

Also I don't think I've seen enough mention of attack reflection via his portals, no?

They made him bloodlusted and gave prior knowledge so he'd start with TK which the spot cant reflect with his portals

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

They made him bloodlusted and gave prior knowledge so he'd start with TK which the spot cant reflect with his portals

Yes but he can also throw a portal on himself

 

[ShionAH]

Uh no hes not? at least thats not what's being said on his profile. All his justifications are not info analysis or ANY mention of BIQ.

Alright feel free to do so.

Who brought up the spot dodging? He didnt even need to dodge. He overwhelmed them so much that they couldnt land a hit on him.

What? When has reacting in your sleep been superior to straight up precog? the spider sense blows sans' out the water. Since it doesnt provide any proof his instinctive action can even allow him to dodge someone faster than him unlike precog.

The spot's BIQ is shit? Where the hell did you get that from lmao.

The Precog has weaker feats. Spot has shit BIQ since he barely knew how to fight.

 

[King_Dom470]

They made him bloodlusted and gave prior knowledge so he'd start with TK which the spot cant reflect with his portals

Tk shouldnt get reflected by portals based on how the ability functions. Also sans isnt bloodlusted here

 

[ShionAH]

I also hate this match since Sans has knowledge when he can literally keep up without these. Please stop adding rules OP

 

[King_Dom470]

I also hate this match since Sans has knowledge when he can literally keep up without these. Please stop adding rules OP

Yo i didn't bloodlust him

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Spot's precog was only a premonition of the impending canon event in two universes. It's not combat applicable

 

[King_Dom470]

Spot's precog was only a premonition of the impending canon event in two universes. It's not combat applicable

I think their saying that spot was able to keep up with people who have precog. Which makes it seem like spot would be more able to overwhelm sans than previously thought

 

[Razor]

Yes but he can also throw a portal on himself

Thats true

Tk shouldnt get reflected by portals based on how the ability functions. Also sans isnt bloodlusted here

Yes I agree.

I also hate this match since Sans has knowledge when he can literally keep up without these. Please stop adding rules OP

He gets stomped without them we already had a discussion about this did you read the thread?

Spot's precog was only a premonition of the impending canon event in two universes. It's not combat applicable

I'm not talking about the spot's precog, I'm talking about the spider people's precog which he easily overwhelmed

The Precog has weaker feats. Spot has shit BIQ since he barely knew how to fight.

Precog of any level allows you to see in the future, which automatically blows reacting in your sleep. That doesnt even prove he can react to people faster than him. Thats not true for this key, the only time he was in that state is when he just got his powers. He learned how to use them very effectively

 

[ShionAH]

Yo i didn't bloodlust him

Remove knowledge

 

[King_Dom470]

Remove knowledge

He gets brutally stomped if i do

 

[King_Dom470]

If I had a nickel for every time King Dom made a match with The Spot and gave the opponent prior knowledge for no reason I'd have two nickels

And in this match sans would get stomped if he didn't have prior knowledge

 

[ShionAH]

He gets stomped without them we already had a discussion about this did you read the thread?

I did. I disagree.

Precog of any level allows you to see in the future, which automatically blows reacting in your sleep.

Scans of Spidey Sense showing the future instead of giving instict. I dont even see why its Precog, its pure wank

That doesnt even prove he can react to people faster than him. Thats not true for this key, the only time he was in that state is when he just got his powers. He learned how to use them very effectively

Not very effectively. He just grew more powerful and started to spam it. Thats all.

He gets brutally stomped if i do

I dont see why that happens? It seems like an Incon or a Mismatch to me.

 

[King_Dom470]

I dont see why that happens? It seems like an Incon or a Mismatch to me.

because without prior knowledge sans wont use his tk which is the only way he can reliably hit the spot and he only ever uses tk at the very end of the fight

 

[Razor]

I did. I disagree.

Scans of Spidey Sense showing the future instead of giving instict. I dont even see why its Precog, its pure wank

Not very effectively. He just grew more powerful and started to spam it. Thats all.

I dont see why that happens? It seems like an Incon or a Mismatch to me.

Its in the profiles, also are you really asking if spider sense is precog?

What? It was literally a plot point that at first he didnt know jack shit about his powers.

 

[ShionAH]

Its in the profiles,

Theres no “future seeing”

also are you really asking if spider sense is precog?

Yes. It seems like this version only gives instinc. It makes you sense danger. Not see future.

What? It was literally a plot point that at first he didnt know jack shit about his powers.

Yes. Then he grew more powerful and started to spam them and win.

I dont even like this matchup, I think its a mismatch

 

[King_Dom470]

I dont even like this matchup, I think its a mismatch

It was but at this point they both have wincons so not anymore

 

[Razor]

Theres no “future seeing”

Yes. It seems like this version only gives instinc. It makes you sense danger. Not see future.

Yes. Then he grew more powerful and started to spam them and win.

I dont even like this matchup, I think its a mismatch

"This version" What do you mean this version? Pretty sure spider sense is treated the same unless a statement says one is superior to the other.

He was spamming it before he learned how to use it, its just that he couldnt use it properly. He didnt even know where his portals lead to at first.

I agree it is a mismatch

 

[King_Dom470]

"This version" What do you mean this version? Pretty sure spider sense is treated the same unless a statement says one is superior to the other.

He was spamming it before he learned how to use it, its just that he couldnt use it properly. He didnt even know where his portals lead to at first.

I agree it is a mismatch

Why is it a mismatch?

 

[Razor]

Why is it a mismatch?

Even with prior knowledge the spot has so many things he could do. Whilst TK is the only wincon for sans. And hes overwhelmed multiple people with better senses than sans so he gets the first hit. I say just make a new match

 

[ShionAH]

Why is it a mismatch?

Depending on Spider Senses either Sans dodges and wrecks or Spot dodged and wrecks

 

[King_Dom470]

Even with prior knowledge the spot has so many things he could do. Whilst TK is the only wincon for sans. And hes overwhelmed multiple people with better senses than sans so he gets the first hit. I say just make a new match

Sans could also weigh down his soul to make the spot slower which would also affect him since it isn't a physical attack. And he could also use his timestop to mess with him that way by hitting him in time stop or by using it to move locations and get the drop on him. Also even though he can wipe miles even though he has precog it probably isn't anywhere near as potent as sans' instinctive reaction so the spots definitely gonna have problems dealing with him there.

I still personally dont think this is a stomp/mismatch but if it is would it be more fair to use the spots second version and remove prior knowledge?

 

[Razor]

Sans could also weigh down his soul to make the spot slower which would also affect him since it isn't a physical attack. And he could also use his timestop to mess with him that way by hitting him in time stop or by using it to move locations and get the drop on him. Also even though he can wipe miles even though he has precog it probably isn't anywhere near as potent as sans' instinctive reaction so the spots definitely gonna have problems dealing with him there.

I still personally dont think this is a stomp/mismatch but if it is would it be more fair to use the spots second version and remove prior knowledge?

Hes not gonna be able to do that when the spot is constantly TPing. For 1 it says he cant attack in timestop and 2 he'd have to catch the spot in the right time where he isnt through his portal to do anything. Sans' instinctive reaction isnt even good, reacting while you're asleep is a common ability and doesnt say whether or not they can react to a faster opponent. Like if the spot had an ability that puts people to sleep I get bringing that up here but otherwise I dont see the point, especially in comparing it to spider sense which is precog.

 

[Razor]

Sans could also weigh down his soul to make the spot slower which would also affect him since it isn't a physical attack. And he could also use his timestop to mess with him that way by hitting him in time stop or by using it to move locations and get the drop on him. Also even though he can wipe miles even though he has precog it probably isn't anywhere near as potent as sans' instinctive reaction so the spots definitely gonna have problems dealing with him there.

I still personally dont think this is a stomp/mismatch but if it is would it be more fair to use the spots second version and remove prior knowledge?

That was also covered, the spot still has all his portal abilities its just that hes not immune to physical attacks. Still a stomp just not by an egregious amount.

Depending on Spider Senses either Sans dodges and wrecks or Spot dodged and wrecks

Basically this, I think the spider sense is way superior than sans' instincts. But its a mismatch no matter what the conclusion is. Either the spot completely overwhelms sans' or sans' destroys his soul easily.

 

[King_Dom470]

Hes not gonna be able to do that when the spot is constantly TPing. For 1 it says he cant attack in timestop and 2 he'd have to catch the spot in the right time where he isnt through his portal to do anything. Sans' instinctive reaction isnt even good, reacting while you're asleep is a common ability and doesnt say whether or not they can react to a faster opponent. Like if the spot had an ability that puts people to sleep I get bringing that up here but otherwise I dont see the point, especially in comparing it to spider sense which is precog.

isnt even good? On sans' profile it even says the only reason Chara was able to tag sans was by breaking the games combat system. Also Miles doesn't have that impressive of a spider sense and hes also a relitively inexperienced spider-man so spot beating him is impressive but not to the point that he would be able to completely overwhelm sans especially given the fact that sans can limit his speed and agility massively buy using his gravity manip to weigh him down making him way easier to dodge. Also small little sidenote but he could also screw the spot up by teleporting him around.

That was also covered, the spot still has all his portal abilities its just that hes not immune to physical attacks. Still a stomp just not by an egregious amount.

Basically this, I think the spider sense is way superior than sans' instincts. But its a mismatch no matter what the conclusion is. Either the spot completely overwhelms sans' or sans' destroys his soul easily.

Also this wouldn't make it a mismatch/stomp since they both have ways of oneshotting each other it would just be a case of who hits who first which would be much more debatable than your making it out to be imo. Since sans can easily slow the spot down which he will probably open with since he has prior knowledge and then proceed to ragdoll and toss him around even if the spot teleports out of sans' tk he'd be slowed down enough to make dodging much more manageable. and obviously from what's been discussed above the spot wouldn't be a pushover either so sans wouldn't "Destroy his soul easily" nor would the spot "completely overwhelm him" to the point that its stompy.

 

[Razor]

isnt even good? On sans' profile it even says the only reason Chara was able to tag sans was by breaking the games combat system. Also Miles doesn't have that impressive of a spider sense and hes also a relitively inexperienced spider-man so spot beating him is impressive but not to the point that he would be able to completely overwhelm sans especially given the fact that sans can limit his speed and agility massively buy using his gravity manip to weigh him down making him way easier to dodge. Also small little sidenote but he could also screw the spot up by teleporting him around.

Also this wouldn't make it a mismatch/stomp since they both have ways of oneshotting each other it would just be a case of who hits who first which would be much more debatable than your making it out to be imo. Since sans can easily slow the spot down which he will probably open with since he has prior knowledge and then proceed to ragdoll and toss him around even if the spot teleports out of sans' tk he'd be slowed down enough to make dodging much more manageable. and obviously from what's been discussed above the spot wouldn't be a pushover either so sans wouldn't "Destroy his soul easily" nor would the spot "completely overwhelm him" to the point that its stompy.

Thats a speed justification, not his instincts. Hes just faster than chara naturally. It spider sense, its precog idk why its being heavily contested right now. He outpaced the entire spider society, he has less experience but is still far more skilled than most of them. and considering miles by himself has better reactions than sans' and the fact that the spot was also dealing with 3 other spider people who are relative to miles, the spot just tags him. Alright if he does that then it becomes a stomp for sans since any attack from him is soul manip. TPing the spot wont do anything as already discussed.

The debateable part would only be who would stomp not if it is a stomp. In either conclusion theres someone who will land first 99% of the time which is why its a stomp. One shot vs one shot matches tend to be stomps anyway, which is why I assume its hard to find a suitable opponent for sans' and the same is true for the spot, and any other one shot characters.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Wouldn't Spot absorb everything since he is on his final key though?

Or did we change Spot key?

I'm out of the loop and i don't think i want to read 2 pages, Can anyone give me a summary?