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First battle thread on the wiki.battle between two 1A

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I believe Void Shiki has some NEP and transduality from the Swirl of the Roots no? Which means Shiro can't interact with it, plus Shiki has plot manip too so she can interact with her properly, whicheans this is a stomp for Shiki
 
Shiro does have plot manIpulation on her profile but not nep 2 and TD but is this a stomp since that just makes shiki impossible to be interacted with by shiro,it doesn't give her an edge in attacking.am I wrong ?
 
CosmologyLearner said:
Shiro does have plot manIpulation on her profile but not nep 2 and TD but is this a stomp since that just makes shiki impossible to be interacted with by shiro,it doesn't give her an edge in attacking.am I wrong ?
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If Shiki didn't have Plot manip then yeah she can't interact with Shiro

But didn't the roots has like every ability in Nasuverse or that has changed?
 
Shiki can't kill Shiro due to her immortality and abstract existence as the epilogue in its true form I think. Idk if you need plot manip to interact with it, what I assumed

But yeah can't do anything to each other
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Shiki can't kill Shiro due to her immortality and abstract existence as the epilogue in its true form I think. Idk if you need plot manip to interact with it, what I assumed

But yeah can't do anything to each other
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Shiki kinda Bypassess all forms of Immortality with Her Mystic Eyes of Death Perception it's kinda their thing and if were talking Abstract Existence Type 1 then almost all Gods in the Nasuverse like Zeus have it. Night Of Wallachia has Type 1 as well And Shiki is perfectly capable of killing any one of them. And if were talking Type 2 then Kama, Demon King Nobunaga etc.... Have it

Looking at Shallow's page I'm not seeing anything that would stop Shiki from using her Mystic Eyes of GG to just kill her. Cause Shiki's Regen Negation is High-Godly too. If they're both baseline then isn't this sorta a stomp??
 
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FallenMaou2234 said:
Shiki kinda Bypassess all forms of Immortality with Her Mystic Eyes of Death Perception it's kinda their thing and if were talking Abstract Existence Type 1 then almost all Gods in the Nasuverse like Zeus have it. Night Of Wallachia has Type 1 as well And Shiki is perfectly capable of killing any one of them. And if were talking Type 2 then Kama, Demon King Nobunaga etc.... Have it

Looking at Shallow's page I'm not seeing anything that would stop Shiki from using her Mystic Eyes of GG to just kill her. Cause Shiki's Regen Negation is High-Godly too. If they're both baseline then isn't this sorta a stomp??
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Shiro's a plot abstraction, Shiki needs plot manipulation to interact with her

Also, to what degree the HGR negation is?
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Shiki has Plot Manipulation yes. And something like 4 Layers off the top of my head
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I meant to what degree he negates the HGR since HGR includes historical, conceptual and narrative erasure (to which Shiro capable of returning from)

Well it ain't matter much when Shiki can negate immo type 8 though, how does she do that anyway, just slice and dice it?
 
Noneless21 said:
I meant to what degree he negates the HGR since HGR includes historical, conceptual and narrative erasure (to which Shiro capable of returning from)

Well it ain't matter much when Shiki can negate immo type 8 though, how does she do that anyway, just slice and dice it?
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Well with Her MOEDP yes that's all that needs to happen, She can also use the various Authorities that Gods in the Nasuverse have that can kill other gods so there's really too many ways for me to explain each one in this thread.
 
Negating immo still depends on the level of that immo, you can't, for example, say that bypassing the link with incorporeal would also bypass link with abstracts, it would have to be at least somewhat comparable.

And well Imma bring her Final Story property which basically means anyone who faced her would have to end all stories including their own first to get rid of that. This would only be useless for ones that transcend/beyond the literal narrative on a 1A scale, which the Root pretty much doesn't, profile-based.
 
Her Immo is reliant on her 1-A, so its not really problem because both are 1-A. Her final story is just plot manip, and Shiki is resistant to that. And there's still about her TD2 and NEP2 that she cant interact.
 
John985 said:
Her Immo is reliant on her 1-A, so its not really problem because both are 1-A. Her final story is just plot manip, and Shiki is resistant to that. And there's still about her TD2 and NEP2 that she cant interact.
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Although i agree with you, but where does resistance to plot comes from?
 
Fair on TD2 and NEP2 ig, but the point is the Final Story makes it so that Shiki would have to commit suicide herself, so Shiro not being able to interact with doesn't prevent all of her win potential.

Resistance to plot manip that works on 1A level with resistance negation? Will need proof of that.
 
If your talking about Resistance Negation, all god tiers have have that. And Shiki Scale way higher than them. So it would be 20+ layers.

And Final Story is just another application of Plot Manip, just having resistance to it is enough. And its not even layered. And Im not even sure it would even work, because the Root is both the beginning and the end.
 
PainKiller07 said:
Negating immo still depends on the level of that immo, you can't, for example, say that bypassing the link with incorporeal would also bypass link with abstracts, it would have to be at least somewhat comparable.
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Those literally are comparable though?? Not that it matters since Shallows Type 8 is based on her 1-A complete self which is kinda the one that we're using for the debate so it's not that much of an issue here

(Probably need to edit Shiki's page to add all those Abilities and Resistances she gets via power Mimicry lmao)
 
PainKiller07 said:
Fair on TD2 and NEP2 ig, but the point is the Final Story makes it so that Shiki would have to commit suicide herself, so Shiro not being able to interact with doesn't prevent all of her win potential.

Resistance to plot manip that works on 1A level with resistance negation? Will need proof of that.
Click to expand...
Since when you can plot haxed someone you can't interract with?
 
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Needing to end your own story probably wouldn't even count against something like that transduality when I think about it.

Same if it's plot related NEP on a similar level

The epilogue would definitely take down shiki but seems like she has the tools to counter it instantly killing her by her existence so..
 
Noneless21 said:
No you do need plot manip to interact with plot abstraction, same with info abstraction and conceptual abstraction, you need info manip and concept manip respectively to interact with said being without npi
Click to expand...
ok ig....
even if such thing like concept of fate plot casuality exist
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Needing to end your own story probably wouldn't even count against something like that transduality when I think about it.

Same if it's plot related NEP on a similar level

The epilogue would definitely take down shiki but seems like she has the tools to counter it instantly killing her by her existence so..
Click to expand...
You know if a character has 2 abilities that negate the effect of the opponent's ability, saying that "the epilogue will definitely destroy Shiki" is a bit iffy
 
Noneless21 said:
No you do need plot manip to interact with plot abstraction, same with info abstraction and conceptual abstraction, you need info manip and concept manip respectively to interact with said being without npi
Click to expand...
Shiki has Plot Manipulation, Information Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation(type 1) so that's not an issue actually
Enter_Bluey said:
Needing to end your own story probably wouldn't even count against something like that transduality when I think about it.

Same if it's plot related NEP on a similar level

The epilogue would definitely take down shiki but seems like she has the tools to counter it instantly killing her by her existence so..
Click to expand...
As we've already discussed even discounting Shiki's NEP and Transduality she also just straight resists Plot Manipulation so Shallows Epilogue kinda gets no selled by the former two or resisted
 
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