Fire vs Ice (Demonic edition)

[Theglassman12]

Surprised no on did this at all. Let's see how this pans out.

Cerberus: 1 (Tony)

Berial: 4 (Gilver, Mister, Lightning, Dinamic)

Inconclusive:

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Berial via A>B>C, and Cerberus is C, so Berial wins

 

[Mister6ame6]

Berial's fire can casually turn normal demons into ashs just by being close to him, so he probably stomp Cerberus here, since he have baseline resistance to fire, plus Berial probably have a higher regen neg scaling since he was powerfull enough to give a bit of trouble to Nero along with the fact that he was capable to have a audience with Mundus by the time of DMC4 events.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Berial's 7-B key is scaled to Echidna

Cerberus' 7-B scales higher than her, he has the AP advantage, but as far as I know demons' resistance to Ice is rather high and that might shield Berial against his attacks up to a certain point

He's also smarter, more skilled and likely more experienced, I'll go with him

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Demons resist Absolute Zero... only way they get frozen is if someone bypassed their resistance. Usual DMC shenanigans.
But I don't think this ice will work on Berial unless Cerberus' has any shown feat of bypassing said resistance.

Also Cerberus has mobility issues with his emanciated and shrivelled lower body which is chained also. While Berial will just prance about.

Honestly fight can go either way, Cerberus has AP advantage, and has huge stamina and endurance advantage over Berial. But Berial is more mobile, he can wear him down and his fire will melt ice easily which takes away Cerberus' range advantage via ice projectiles which will melt on Berial's aura.

 

[Theglassman12]

So I’m assuming you all vote for Berial?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yes

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yeap

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I vote for Cerberus.

He should have the AP advantage by a decent margin and his ice should be more than enough to wear down Berial. Skill isn't an issue since Cerberus doesn't even focus on direct CQC as he spams ice attacks more.

Idk where Lightning got the idea that Berial is more experienced or smarter but considering that Cerberus is likely to be older I rather give those 2 to him.

Also Cerberus has mobility issues with his emanciated and shrivelled lower body which is chained also. While Berial will just prance about.

This would be a problem if they were fighting in the ice chamber, as per SBA they are in a park somewhere in the USA so Cerberus can just freeze everything and wear down Berial without directly fighting him

Demons resist Absolute Zero... only way they get frozen is if someone bypassed their resistance.

Demons also resist extreme temperatures and hellfire so I doubt Berial will do much, also the proof of Berial burning a demon is literally burning a fodder "which Berial's flames is shown to be more than hot enough to burn a Scarecrow", so he can burn bugs wrapped in cloth, a very, very godly feat indeed... He won't be able to do shit to Cerberus.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I vote for Cerberus.

He should have the AP advantage by a decent margin and his ice should be more than enough to wear down Berial. Skill isn't an issue since Cerberus doesn't even focus on direct CQC as he spams ice attacks more.

They both have more and less the same AP since they both scale to Echidna in AP at least for now, however, Berial was capable to survive attacks from Nero and required him to evolve to fatal hurt him and Berial was still capable to survive Nero's attacks despite being injured in the process.

AP won't save Cerberus from Berial here, not to mention that Berial's flames can act on their own to protect him and also work as a shield to protect him from magical attacks, so Cerberus's ice attacks are not doing much here.

Idk where Lightning got the idea that Berial is more experienced or smarter but considering that Cerberus is likely to be older I rather give those 2 to him.

He fought his way from the botton of DMC demon class to eventually to reacth Demon Lord level along to also conquered the fire hell from previus Demon Lord, he is either comparable or superior to Cerberus's in skill departement.

Demons also resist extreme temperatures and hellfire so I doubt Berial will do much, also the proof of Berial burning a demon is literally burning a fodder "which Berial's flames is shown to be more than hot enough to burn a Scarecrow", so he can burn bugs wrapped in cloth, a very, very godly feat indeed... He won't be able to do shit to Cerberus.

He still can melt elite demons like Frost, which also have AZ ice by scaling to others fire demons on his level, so Berial's flame should be hotter enough to at least hurt Cerberus.

 

[Dinamic8000]

Berial FRA

 

[Stillwinston]

Berial FRA

 

[Random-Helper323]

Shouldn't demons have heat resistance as well, to a decent extent? Ifrit's fire was able to hurt Dante more than Trish's lightning, so it should at very least be hotter than lightning. Not as good as their absolute zero negging cold resistance I suppose.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Shouldn't demons have heat resistance as well, to a decent extent? Ifrit's fire was able to hurt Dante more than Trish's lightning, so it should at very least be hotter than lightning. Not as good as their absolute zero negging cold resistance I suppose.

They already have resistante to heat by resisting the BH assimilation process and soon from the Demon World too.

Ifrit's fire did not hurt actually, Dante was capable to whistand his fire just like Trish's lighting.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Ifrit's fire did not hurt actually, Dante was capable to whistand his fire just like Trish's lighting.

He withstood it, but if you watch he doesn't look too comfortable. It hurt him more than Trish's lightning, and lightning is 30 thousand Kelvin. Normally tanking a lightning bolt isn't a huge heat resistance feat due to lightning being too fast to transfer that much heat. Trish's lightning however kept hitting Dante for several seconds, with a sword lodged through his spine to serve as an earthing stake.

 

[Stillwinston]

Anyone imagine Dante just sitting at the side eating pizza during this fight? XD

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

XD

 

[Lightning_XXI]

They already have resistante to heat by resisting the BH assimilation process and soon from the Demon World too.

Ifrit's fire did not hurt actually, Dante was capable to whistand his fire just like Trish's lighting.

They indeed have Resistance, but Cerberus case is even worse as they resist Absolute Zero, Berial has much more chances to use his Fire properly against him

For now I keep my vote

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This would be a problem if they were fighting in the ice chamber, as per SBA they are in a park somewhere in the USA so Cerberus can just freeze everything and wear down Berial without directly fighting him

His lower body is still emaciated. So he still has mobility problems.

He still can melt elite demons like Frost, which also have AZ ice by scaling to others fire demons on his level, so Berial's flame should be hotter enough to at least hurt Cerberus.

Wait really?? If so then that's good feat. Since Frosts are utterly unaffected by magma. I remember some volcano statements for them. And if Berial can burn them.......

 

[Random-Helper323]

Since Frosts are utterly unaffected by magma. I remember some volcano statements for them. And if Berial can burn them.......

Magma is around 1100 Kelvins, which is the melting point of stone. However, tanking prolonged blasts of lightning from Trish is actually higher than this. Lightning is 30,000 Kelvins. It's just that normally lightning strikes too quickly to transfer that heat. That isn't the case with Trish pouring lightning into Dante for several seconds, with a solid metal object lodged into him to conduct the heat better.

And there are a few reasons to treat Ifrit as hotter than lightning, starting with the fact that it's specifically recommended over a lightning sword for killing Frosts, and then the fact that Ifrit seemed to harm Dante a bit more before he subdued it, compared to the non-existent harm from Trish's lightning.

 

[Mister6ame6]

He withstood it, but if you watch he doesn't look too comfortable. It hurt him more than Trish's lightning, and lightning is 30 thousand Kelvin. Normally tanking a lightning bolt isn't a huge heat resistance feat due to lightning being too fast to transfer that much heat. Trish's lightning however kept hitting Dante for several seconds, with a sword lodged through his spine to serve as an earthing stake.

That's is becasuse he is getting used with Ifrit's flames, basically Dante's RE doing what it was supose to do. Well, the lightning from Trish is fair argument, they should have resistance to lightning because of Trish and also because of lightning melting souls.

Wait really?? If so then that's good feat. Since Frosts are utterly unaffected by magma. I remember some volcano statements for them. And if Berial can burn them.......

BH assimilation process is equal to the Demon World's volcano because of him drawing power directly from the DW himself, so yeah, he can burn then easily.

 

[Random-Helper323]

That's is becasuse he is getting used with Ifrit's flames, basically Dante's RE doing what it was supose to do. Well, the lightning from Trish is fair argument, they should have resistance to lightning because of Trish and also because of lightning melting souls

Not just lightning in itself, but also heat. Lightning is around 30 times hotter than volcanic lava/magma, and the fact that Dante had to adapt to Ifrit even after tanking several seconds of Trish's lightning pouring straight into a metal conductor lodged in his spinal column, even further tells us that Ifrit is hotter than lightning. Especially since the lightning was damaging him via current as well as heat, as shown by his convulsing.

Normally lightning is only connected for a fraction of a second, which stops a lot of that heat from transferring into what it hits. What Trish was doing is different. It stayed as a circuit for several seconds. That should have heated that sword up to insanely high temperatures, and it should have heated Dante himself up a lot too. Being inside him would make it worse; touching his wet and metallic blood would have made the heat transfer far faster than it would otherwise (real life advice, never handle a hot object with a wet towel around your hand, the heat travels through the water almost instantly and burns you).

TL;DR: Trish's lightning should have been 30 times hotter than volcanic lava, and Ifrit was able to hurt Dante after he tanked that lightning for several seconds, making Ifrit even hotter than that. Far more impressive than being hotter than volcanic magma.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They both have more and less the same AP since they both scale to Echidna in AP at least for now, however, Berial was capable to survive attacks from Nero and required him to evolve to fatal hurt him and Berial was still capable to survive Nero's attacks despite being injured in the process.

Cerberus "should be superior to strong demons of the Demon World like Echidna", Berial "Shouldn't be weaker than" her. The AP goes to the dog.

AP won't save Cerberus from Berial here, not to mention that Berial's flames can act on their own to protect him and also work as a shield to protect him from magical attacks, so Cerberus's ice attacks are not doing much here.

AP will make cerberus go right through the flames, just like Nero did. Not to mention Cerberus is himself encased in ice, Berial needs to go through that first to make contact with Cerberus.

He fought his way from the botton of DMC demon class to eventually to reacth Demon Lord level along to also conquered the fire hell from previus Demon Lord, he is either comparable or superior to Cerberus's in skill departement.

That still doesn't show his skill being superior.

He still can melt elite demons like Frost, which also have AZ ice by scaling to others fire demons on his level, so Berial's flame should be hotter enough to at least hurt Cerberus.

That is never stated. The current scans and the new translation says he can burn fodder demons like the scarecrow.

His lower body is still emaciated. So he still has mobility problems.

You must be having some memory problems, he is perfectly fine. Until Dante happens and he isn't.

BH assimilation process is equal to the Demon World's volcano because of him drawing power directly from the DW himself, so yeah, he can burn then easily.

Wot?

 

[Mister6ame6]

Cerberus "should be superior to strong demons of the Demon World like Echidna", Berial "Shouldn't be weaker than" her. The AP goes to the dog.

Don't think so, both scale to Echidna from their AP section, however Berial is stronger enougth to maybe have a audience to Mundus hinself, he should be abover her by being capable to talk with the Demon King hinself, not to mention that DMC3 Pre DT Dante and Pre DT Nero are comparable to eacth other in this case, and Berial was capable to survive Nero's attacks despite being way inferior then him while Cerberus best feat is fighting a casual Dante. They are both comparable here, but Berial was some feats to put him at least comparable to Cerberus AP wise.

AP will make cerberus go right through the flames, just like Nero did. Not to mention Cerberus is himself encased in ice, Berial needs to go through that first to make contact with Cerberus.

Their AP are comparable here, and not really, Nero was way stronger then Berial and even says that his power and skill are not even half as impressive as Dante's ones and still have problems to defeat him because of his flames, and Cerberus is weaker then DMC4 Pre-DT here, so yeah, Cerberus is not going to have a more easy fight here against Berial then what Nero did.

That still doesn't show his skill being superior.

I said that Berial skill is either comparable or superior then Cerberus, but i'm fine with comparable to him because of Cerberus being hand picked by Sparda himself.

That is never stated. The current scans and the new translation says he can burn fodder demons like the scarecrow.

Nero states that Frost didn't even hold a candle to Berial in Deadly Fortune, so yeah, he can melt Frost's ice whitheout problems here, since demons's powers is tied to Demonic Energy in DMC, elemental demons can affect demons that are comparable to them or casually destroy demons that are inferior to then.

Wot?

BH is stated to have a link to the Demon World Energy in the novel, and he also can assimilate demons that are dead as show when Dante kill Chen.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Don't think so, both scale to Echidna from their AP section, however Berial is stronger enougth to maybe have a audience to Mundus hinself, he should be abover her by being capable to talk with the Demon King hinself, not to mention that DMC3 Pre DT Dante and Pre DT Nero are comparable to eacth other in this case, and Berial was capable to survive Nero's attacks despite being way inferior then him while Cerberus best feat is fighting a casual Dante. They are both comparable here, but Berial was some feats to put him at least comparable to Cerberus AP wise.

Hmmm no, the profiles clearly state Cerberus is stronger. Nero and Dante aren't comparable, Dante is stronger than him, even as a "human" he was stronger than Nero prior to his first fight with Dante.

Their AP are comparable here, and not really, Nero was way stronger then Berial and even says that his power and skill are not even half as impressive as Dante's ones and still have problems to defeat him because of his flames, and Cerberus is weaker then DMC4 Pre-DT here, so yeah, Cerberus is not going to have a more easy fight here against Berial then what Nero did.

Same thing as above. There is zero scaling between Nero and Cerberus, what makes you think he is weaker than Nero? In fact profiles again point out that Cerberus is stronger.

Nero states that Frost didn't even hold a candle to Berial in Deadly Fortune, so yeah, he can melt Frost's ice whitheout problems here, since demons's powers is tied to Demonic Energy in DMC, elemental demons can affect demons that are comparable to them or casually destroy demons that are inferior to then.

That's not what "didn't even hold a candle" means, it means that Frost is way weaker than Berial, not that it will get vaporized by being near him.

since demons's powers is tied to Demonic Energy in DMC, elemental demons can affect demons that are comparable to them or casually destroy demons that are inferior to then.

If that's the case then Berial will get absolutely demolished here.

BH is stated to have a link to the Demon World Energy in the novel, and he also can assimilate demons that are dead as show when Dante kill Chen.

Why is that relevant to this match?

 

[Mister6ame6]

Hmmm no, the profiles clearly state Cerberus is stronger. Nero and Dante aren't comparable, Dante is stronger than him, even as a "human" he was stronger than Nero prior to his first fight with Dante.

''Should'' don't 100% imply that Cerberus is stronger then Berial, it means maybe he is comparable at worst and stronger at best, the AP diference here is not really high considering that ''should'' is the best thing Cerberus have compared to Berial is not going to help him that much.

So Dante being stronger then Nero before figthing Dante for the fist time matter here? Nero after figthing Dante is comparable to DMC3 Pre DT Dante and Berial even being inferior then Nero still gived Nero trouble to kill him, which Cerberus lacks something like that becasue of Dante meming on his faces. They are comparable here, unless you plan on making a CTR to change Dante and Nero scaling to eacth other in the future.

Same thing as above. There is zero scaling between Nero and Cerberus, what makes you think he is weaker than Nero? In fact profiles again point out that Cerberus is stronger.

Easy, becausue Dante and Nero scale to eacth other, and Cerberus and Berial scale to Echidna, which Cerberus maybe been stronger then her, which goes back to what i'm said above of AP difference here being almost irrelevant

That's not what "didn't even hold a candle" means, it means that Frost is way weaker than Berial, not that it will get vaporized by being near him.

Being way weaker means that he will not have a problem of vaporinz Frost, which have AZ ice as his elemental.

If that's the case then Berial will get absolutely demolished here.

Already debunked the AP thing, try again bro.

Why is that relevant to this match?

Every demons and their mommy have resistance to AZ and Hellfire in DMC, which more stronger elemental demons being capable to haxs weaker demons to death, so i'm just trying to show how hot is fire in DMC from BH assimilation process since the DW volcano is not added to the profiels atm and both contenders here can bypass demons's resistances to AZ and Hellfire here.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

''Should'' don't 100% imply that Cerberus is stronger then Berial, it means maybe he is comparable at worst and stronger at best, the AP diference here is not really high considering that ''should'' is the best thing Cerberus have compared to Berial is not going to help him that much.

However you want to see it, Berial is considered that he shouldn't be that much weaker than Echidna while Cerberus should be stronger than her.

So Dante being stronger then Nero before figthing Dante for the fist time matter here? Nero after figthing Dante is comparable to DMC3 Pre DT Dante and Berial even being inferior then Nero still gived Nero trouble to kill him, which Cerberus lacks something like that becasue of Dante meming on his faces. They are comparable here, unless you plan on making a CTR to change Dante and Nero scaling to eacth other in the future.

Because you brought up Berial fighting Nero as if it was relevant for the match.

For now they are equal Post Devil Trigger which is not the keys to refference here or who these guys fought. Later on Gilver will be above his ass and Tony along with him.

Easy, becausue Dante and Nero scale to eacth other, and Cerberus and Berial scale to Echidna, which Cerberus maybe been stronger then her, which goes back to what i'm said above of AP difference here being almost irrelevant

Dante and Nero doesn't scale to each other, Dante is clearly treated as a stronger demon all around. Post DTis for now...

Regardless, both Dante and Cerberus profiles state the latter should be way stronger. There is also the fact that if I follow your logic above, Nero vs Berial and the little ap gap there was, Cerberus will win in the end. Nero did it and Cerberus is treated as stronger by a margin.

Being way weaker means that he will not have a problem of vaporinz Frost, which have AZ ice as his elemental.

Yes, after attacking it constantly, not just by being near it like you are implying.

Already debunked the AP thing, try again bro.

Debunked nothing, next.

Every demons and their mommy have resistance to AZ and Hellfire in DMC, which more stronger elemental demons being capable to haxs weaker demons to death, so i'm just trying to show how hot is fire in DMC from BH assimilation process since the DW volcano is not added to the profiels atm and both contenders here can bypass demons's resistances to AZ and Hellfire here.

I haven't seen a Frost freeze to death a normal demon despite being stated to be beyond AZ (which is already stronger than King Cerberus) nor have I say Berial burn something that isn't a literal bug colony warped in cloth so I don't understand what is this about elemental demons haxing other demons.

Where are you getting this volcano shit or that the hellfire is from the demon world? BH doesn't bypass resistance, that's the sole reason demons have said resistance. The only Hellfire I can think that is that strong is from Ifrit since it hurts Dante.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Where are you getting this volcano shit or that the hellfire is from the demon world? BH doesn't bypass resistance, that's the sole reason demons have said resistance. The only Hellfire I can think that is that strong is from Ifrit since it hurts Dante.

I'd also like to remind Mister6ame6 as well as tell Tony Di bugalu that the lightning info I mentioned above technically makes the volcano stuff semi meaningless.

Volcanic magma = ~1100°C

Lightning = ~30,000°C

Normally lightning is bad at transferring heat due to hitting and leaving so quickly, but the attack Trish hit Dante with was hitting him for several seconds and had a sword in his spine to serve as a conductor. It also had direct contact with his blood, which would almost instantly heat up, as well as giving the heat a way to travel through him.

And Dante tanked that with no damage, meaning he can handle temperatures around 30,000°C without damage. After that, Ifrit was shown to be able to hurt him. If temperatures are specifically referenced for heat abilities and heat resistance, the lightning stuff would warrant an upgrade to that. The volcanoes and magma are useful as supporting evidence, but the lightning is more impressive.

 

[Mister6ame6]

However you want to see it, Berial is considered that he shouldn't be that much weaker than Echidna while Cerberus should be stronger than her.

Yeap, but the gap here is not big, which Berial being capable to tank attacks from wayyyyyyy more then half stronger then him, so like said, the AP gap don't matter much here.

Because you brought up Berial fighting Nero as if it was relevant for the match.

It is because both scale to Echidna, which make Cerberus and Berial comparable here, which Berial was capable to survive attacks from someone much more stronger then him, so yeah, Nero and Dante scale to eacth other here, and is relevant for this macth.

For now they are equal Post Devil Trigger which is not the keys to refference here or who these guys fought. Later on Gilver will be above his ass and Tony along with him.

Responded above, don't see what feat will make Tony and Gilver above Nero, since both heavely upscale from Blitz, which is only low 7B at best, and Dante 7B scaling start with Cerberus in DMC3

So...

Dante and Nero doesn't scale to each other, Dante is clearly treated as a stronger demon all around. Post DTis for now...

By what exactly? Dante only have a wayyy more higher scaling in low 7B, not on 7B, so Dante is not getting above Nero post Dante fight.

Regardless, both Dante and Cerberus profiles state the latter should be way stronger. There is also the fact that if I follow your logic above, Nero vs Berial and the little ap gap there was, Cerberus will win in the end. Nero did it and Cerberus is treated as stronger by a margin.

Only stronger, not wayyy stronger like you keep implying, and no, Nero was wayyy more then half stronger and skilled then Berial and still needed to make effort to kill him. Cerberus lacks the massive AP and skill gap here to make him comparable to Nero fighting Berial in DF.

Yes, after attacking it constantly, not just by being near it like you are implying.

Ok, what does that debunk what i'm said? Berial won't need to much effort to make Frost get vaporized.

Debunked nothing, next.

I did and did again, next.

I haven't seen a Frost freeze to death a normal demon despite being stated to be beyond AZ (which is already stronger than King Cerberus) nor have I say Berial burn something that isn't a literal bug colony warped in cloth so I don't understand what is this about elemental demons haxing other demons.

Not seeing don't means that is not capable to haxs others, do you need to see a Demon King killing a lower tier demons tier say he have better haxs here? Frost is a specialized assassin of the DW and par of Mundus's elite demons army my boy, his entire jam is to kill demons at the commant of Mundus.

Well, Balrog saying that we have many fire demons to Dante in the DW but saying to not compare him to the others ones, Ifrit hurting Dante despite the former being capable to casually tank Agnu's fire in DMC3, King Cerberus mocking Berial's fire and Bael's ice powers, etc...

Where are you getting this volcano shit or that the hellfire is from the demon world? BH doesn't bypass resistance, that's the sole reason demons have said resistance. The only Hellfire I can think that is that strong is from Ifrit since it hurts Dante.

DMC1 when Dante enters inside the DW to go after Mundus's ass, they mention that the DW volcano's lava is made of blood in the Sacred Tears guidebook. BH assimilation does indeed bypass resistances, Chen got assimilated when Dante killed him in the novel. About hellfire potency, i'm responded above about stronger demons having better hellfire then lower ones.

I'd also like to remind Mister6ame6 as well as tell Tony Di bugalu that the lightning info I mentioned above technically makes the volcano stuff semi meaningless.

Volcanic magma = ~1100°C

Lightning = ~30,000°C

Normally lightning is bad at transferring heat due to hitting and leaving so quickly, but the attack Trish hit Dante with was hitting him for several seconds and had a sword in his spine to serve as a conductor. It also had direct contact with his blood, which would almost instantly heat up, as well as giving the heat a way to travel through him.

And Dante tanked that with no damage, meaning he can handle temperatures around 30,000°C without damage. After that, Ifrit was shown to be able to hurt him. If temperatures are specifically referenced for heat abilities and heat resistance, the lightning stuff would warrant an upgrade to that. The volcanoes and magma are useful as supporting evidence, but the lightning is more impressive.

Well, makes sense, but better ask KLOL for this stuff, he is more knowgeable about this then us.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm too lazy to keep going here, I still stand by what I said.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It probably seems like I'm arguing for Berial, but I'm actually not sure he scales in any way to Ifrit or Trish. Berial who got easily smacked by Pre-DT Nero versus Ifrit which managed to hurt DMC1 Dante.

I'm only bringing up the lightning stuff because it bothers me seeing Ifrit's temperature measured by comparing it to lava when Trish's lightning would be thirty times hotter than lava and Ifrit was shown to be hotter again via hurting Dante more. It might even warrant a tiny CRT for the heat of DMC hell fire and demon's resistance to extreme heat.