Fire emblem overall downgrade.

[Ted_Ed]

7-C due to Meteor is fine. Ap that is.

But based on the actual script and story of FE4 and 5, no one that was hit with it survived. The rest smanaged to scape in the chaos or were not present in the massacre. Lewyn, Sigurd (both should be tier 6 in durability cuz Holy Weapon) and some others that are more magically inclined than lets say, Brigid or Ayra died.

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Belhalla

So no, their durability should be way lower as Meteor has always been considered as a one hit kill/execution move.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Also, it is unknown if any if all non legendary magic is comparable to meteor.

 

[GalacticIron]

There is a big diffrence between one meteor and the amouth used in the battle of Belhalla, plus, meteor is only a c-rank tome in Genealogy and it's already been deduced to be consistent with bolgannone.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Ranks, advantages (like falchion only being effective against dragons), etc. Are game mechanics.

 

[GalacticIron]

Actually, weapon ranks are intergrated in Genealogy's story, since how good a mage is at using certain types of magic in that game depends completely on their holy blood (for instance, any mage that can use fire magic could use meteor, but bolgannone requires at least minor Fjalar blood).

 

[Ted_Ed]

Hlly blood is canon. In gamr ranks are not.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I am pretty sure characters are actually able to take hits from meteor.

Also you say all this stuff is Game Mechanics, but you have to prove that they are indeed game mechanics.

 

[GalacticIron]

Also since the meteor calc is consistent with bolgannone, it wouldn't make sense for a random boss like Volzhin to lose despite wielding bolgannone.

 

[Ted_Ed]

It is unknown if any characters got hit by either tome after the BBQ due to the hit rate mechanic being dependant on the player's rng.

What i do know is that FE5 makes it clear that those that survived being executed is bbecause they either managed to scape in the chaos or were not there in the first place, also, there is no time frame for the BBQ either since it is a cinematic scene, we do not know if they took muultiple attacks or just one per person.

Also, Sigurd with Tyrfing and Lewyn are supposed to have tier 6 durability despite dying to the same 7-C attack the others did die to.


There is no line in the game nor in any of the profiles that states that any of the characters survived at least one of those attacks.


Either reduce the durability of those that have not tanked attacks from tier 6 people like Sigurd, or upgrade Meteor for being "comparable" to Chrom, who could take hits from Grima, who has a pseudo feat of this tiering. (Tyrfing is considered comparable to Falchion in this wiki, for some reason.)

 

[GalacticIron]

Sigurd did NOT die to meteor, Arvis killed Sigurd personally with Valflame. Also, Lewyn technically survived the battle of Belhalla and is seen throughout the second generation (albeit possesed by Forsetti, kinda like the Loptous situation with Julius).

Just because we can't see how many meteors each character was hit with doesn't mean they'll die to just one. By your logic, random fodder in this verse should be able to one-shot any of the characters that don't wield legendary weapons.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Well, you could easily justify that by the fact the other soldiers had to surround Sigurd's army and corner them.

Also, any of the units that ain't Seliph can easily die without chaning the things that actually happned in the plot, just like Tharja in awakening, the entire army ending up alive at the end of the game is up to the player.

So yeah, it is possibble that random fodder has access to meteor, but the children units can either survive, die depending on them dodging or not.


Thing is, there is a justification for those that survived meteor.

 

[GalacticIron]

Your theory has some holes in it. First, the reason why the meteor shower was able to kill most of Sigurd's army is because they were not prepared for it to happen. Arvis invited them for a party after helping them out so it's reasonable to say that most of them were unarmed or at best unprepared.

Second, while other units can die in Fire Emblem, it's generally assumed that everyone survives in canon (outside of speciffic canon character deaths like Sigurd and most of his army). I mean, plenty of characters can die in Shadow Dragon, yet all of them are revealed to be alive in New Mystery of the Emblem.

Third, how is it fair to use game mechanics to say these guys can dodge the meteors yet not considder how characters can clearly tank a hit from one of these meteors in game as well?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First of all, everyone who can cast meteor is Town level. Also, not ever soldier is 100% equal for sure, but the thing is, even lower leveled mages who can cast meteor would still be Town level. And Sages are actually even higher within the same Tier. Also, regardless of whether in game or in story, the fact is is that much of the cast and especially higher leveled units can take multiple hits from the Meteor spell and continue to fight. Also, the story even mentions it often took multiple meteors to kill people. It also mentions those who were injured but survived hits from meteors.

So 7-C is consistent. In fact, there may be other feats from Fates that could get results higher than Town level that are also consistent. There are no downgrades needed.

Also, that's not how scaling works. PIS is common in fiction and the characters are only Tier 6 with holy weapons. Meteor is not a holy weapon and is thus consistent with Bolganone. Sigurd only has Tier 6 durability when he has his holy weapons and Chrom is only Tier 6 with Exalted Falchion.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Unless a sequel 100% confirms that a character survived, we cannot assume that its canom they survive.

Even if conceptually Lyn is not in FE6, we cannot confirm nor deny her being alive.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We also cannot assume that there's only one canon route; Meteors do not one shot everyone. Besides, it's still the Meteor tome that performs the feat regularly. And it's a regular Mid tier feat and consistent with other mid tier feats. The Lyn example is not relevant. It's common in every Fire Emblem game that your own units have taken multiple hits from meteors and lived. There have also been characters like Ymir who solo'd entire armies which included a bunch of mages with meteor tomes. In which Ymir is considered not much stronger or even some party members considered stronger than him.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Unless a sequel 100% confirms that a character survived, we cannot assume that its canom they survive.
Even if conceptually Lyn is not in FE6, we cannot confirm nor deny her being alive.

This is absurd.Literally every single time a direct sequel comes out the entire cast of the previous game is alive and well not to mention that said deaths boil down to player error or RNG screw.If anything,the burden of proof is on you that they didn't survive the previous game since every previous game has set the precedent of everyone surviving.

Besides,even if you go by this idea,the existence of the outrealms means that any possible outcome to these games happen in at least some of them so it's a moot point anyway.

 

[Loneliness_Gundam]

Unless a sequel 100% confirms that a character survived, we cannot assume that its canom they survive.

Even if conceptually Lyn is not in FE6, we cannot confirm nor deny her being alive.

WOW. What an attempt to derail the conversation there. Keep this on-topic please

 

[Loneliness_Gundam]

Now look Ted. I would love for Elibe to be on the same level as the main timeline and Radiant timeline, especially since Burning Blade was my first Fire Emblem game (even if I'm not a fan of the punishing difficulty level). But the fact of the matter is that there are solid numbers out there for the other timelines, while there's basically nothing to work with for Elibe.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Now look Ted. I would love for Elibe to be on the same level as the main timeline and Radiant timeline, especially since Burning Blade was my first Fire Emblem game (even if I'm not a fan of the punishing difficulty level). But the fact of the matter is that there are solid numbers out there for the other timelines, while there's basically nothing to work with for Elibe.

You sure you're not thinking of Sacred Stones?Elibe at least has the legendary weapons and the ending winter which are super powerful no matter how you choose to interpret the lore.

 

[Loneliness_Gundam]

Am I thinking of the wrong one? Whichever one had Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood was the one I meant.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Am I thinking of the wrong one? Whichever one had Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood was the one I meant.

No,that's blazing blade but Elibe is absolutely fairly strong.Though I think the good stuff is from the japan only binding blade.Just thought you might've gotten it mixed up because GBA as well as SS not being very impressive powerwise.

 

[Loneliness_Gundam]

I'm actually talking with a friend on trying to figure out some of the scaling for the franchise. Apparently there was this one time where some demon seriously messed up a country all at once with an earthquake? I don't know the full details, I haven't played Sacred Stones.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I'm actually talking with a friend on trying to figure out some of the scaling for the franchise. Apparently there was this one time where some demon seriously messed up a country all at once with an earthquake? I don't know the full details, I haven't played Sacred Stones.

IIRC that's based on a false pretense that Formortiis death throes caused a huge earthquake that sunk Grado.It's been awhile since I've played through the game so don't quote me on that.

This isn't really the topic for that though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Formotis is 6-B based on a him causing an Earthquake destroyed the entire population of Grado, and was mainly considered impressive due to the fact that Grado was a Sub-Continent. And JustSomeWeirdo actually made a thread a while back that downgraded the Divine Weapons to Unknow. It was right here.

And yeah, neither Elibe nor Sacred Stones have the Meteor or the Bolganone and a proper Fimbulvetr calculation would be the only hope of upgrading that one. But I don't think it would be too impressive.

 

[Ted_Ed]

bbump

 

[Ted_Ed]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's already been answered, the Meteor is only a Mid Tier weapon most if not all characters are judged by how strong they are at their peaks. Meaning they would all still be Town level or above regardless. And characters survive Meteors and even stuff stronger than meteors regularly. So this is concluded.