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Finally starting Rising Tide and the XIV feels just keep going
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Final Fantasy 16 discussion thread
- Thread starter Npc170
- Start date
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- Tags
- final fantasy
- 910
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alr boys I’m just gonna come clean.
I think true power ultima is just blatantly Uni+ for numerous reasons.
He has sooo many 4d abilities and interacts with it on a regular
A portion of him can literally freeze time
Odin can cut space-time
In ultima’s boss fight he literally cuts the space-time continuum on the ground numerous times.
Can create dimensions beyond space and time
With said dimensions having red shifts implying it’s an expanding universe, we literally see it’s origin in the boss fight
I think he’s consistently implied to have 4d ap
I’m pretty sure it’s stated that mythos limitless/infinite power(or something like that) but ultima is still dumbfounded by how he’s losing after many amps implying he thought he was greater than infinity.
Omega also blatantly has 2-c feats even though ultima should be the peak of the verse
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It does sound pretty convincing if you ask me.
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Omega is somehow almost ALWAYS above everything everytime it appears anyway
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Btw, there's an ongoing debate to know if Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonist if not the strongest (general consensus is that Lightning and XIV protagonist at least are much stronger and Noctis is either weaker or on a similar level but not higher, opinion is mixed for other protagonists)
Dust_Collector
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In terms of how casual audiences see it I can see why he'd be up there, but with everything taken into account he's in the lower half of FF protagonists. AP wise you could argue he's in the upper half but really it's the speed and lack of resistances that let him down.
If we took Low 2-C Clive and put him against Sephiroth while sticking with the 3-B low end for Sephy, Clives still getting stomped.
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Are we just talking about the main numbered protags and are spinoffs included too? Because Jack Garland is pretty much Clive but on whole other level.
That too, for example Bartz is the first FF protag to establish beyond Low 2-C FF (FFI to FFIV all got retroactively buffed by expanded lore and remakes much later on) yet compare a retro turn based JRPG to FFxDMC and which game do you think most people will find more impressive?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,826
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Ok so was gonna make a post in the Q&A board to ask what the standards for creating a place beyond time and space is since there ain't nothing about it on the creation feats page but the wiki is being dumb and not letting me post it. It starts loading like it will but then it doesn't.
Main concern is the fact that we don't really have a good idea of how big the rift is so not sure if that makes it unquantifiable for AP (Unless we wanna say that it's as big as the space between worlds the Typhon and Final Ultima Fights take place in, which maybe makes sense because the rift is also called a rift "between worlds" idk).
Main concern is the fact that we don't really have a good idea of how big the rift is so not sure if that makes it unquantifiable for AP (Unless we wanna say that it's as big as the space between worlds the Typhon and Final Ultima Fights take place in, which maybe makes sense because the rift is also called a rift "between worlds" idk).
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All protagonists. Jack was not mentionned that often from what I've seen but the few times he was, most agree he's far stronger, though other times people admit they wish Clive was stronger simply because they didn't like what the game did to FFI lore and Garland (even though Opera Omnia confirmed Stranger of Paradise is basically an alternate timeline)
Yeah, it's the usual stuff. It's why a lot of people think Kratos is simply around continental to planet level at best whereas the lore makes it clear he's far above. Difference between what you see on-screen and the actual story
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I mean, even excluding Sephiroth (who is one of the most OP and dangerous FF characters anyway and has apparently never used his full power anyway), an antagonist like pre-death Mateus would body before-Barnabas-defeat Clive anyway.
I would also say hax is a problem for Clive. I mean, he has some impressive shit but the vast majority of FF characters have greater and wider hax, like Zack. He gets much better after Ultima but even then, it's not in higher half. Even the first game FFXIII cast has a greater hax arsenal despite being weaker
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Problem is we need a clear statement to justify the tier, I thought we had something to justify tier 2 anyway
Dust_Collector
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Yeah pretty much. Ap wise Clive can hang with some of the big boys and girls, but everything else he falls way behind. Can't do a whole lot when everyone else resist everything you do and can inflict instant death hax before you realise they've even moved an inch.
Statement itself is clear-ish enough, main issue is if the rift is big enough for it to matter. Mostly just trying to find out to flesh out the Low 2-C high end for Ultima beyond Omega scaling.
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A reminder we've got four main numbered FFs in a row that got massive power-creep from DLCs and expansions:
*FFXIII peaked at low 5-B but after XIII-2 and LR got buffed to 2-A.
*FFXIV (ARR) peaked at 2-C but after several expansions got buffed to at least 2-A with the potential to get even stronger.
*FFXV peaked at High 6-A (with arguments for planet level) then with DLC/canon crossovers got buffed to 2-A (notice a pattern?).
*FFXVI peaked at High 6-A to 4-A with the possibility of tier 2 scaling, then with DLC got buffed with a concrete low 2-C feat.
For reference FFX was the last main numbered game not to reach tier 2 (barring Dissida scaling).
*FFXIII peaked at low 5-B but after XIII-2 and LR got buffed to 2-A.
*FFXIV (ARR) peaked at 2-C but after several expansions got buffed to at least 2-A with the potential to get even stronger.
*FFXV peaked at High 6-A (with arguments for planet level) then with DLC/canon crossovers got buffed to 2-A (notice a pattern?).
*FFXVI peaked at High 6-A to 4-A with the possibility of tier 2 scaling, then with DLC got buffed with a concrete low 2-C feat.
For reference FFX was the last main numbered game not to reach tier 2 (barring Dissida scaling).
Dust_Collector
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So basically Strangers of Paradise 2 will be coming out and will have Ultima show up and be equal to Chaos
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And then there's a massive FFVII fanboy who wants Sephiroth to get stronger and stronger
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,826
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The rift is
1. Stated beyond space and time
2. Starry omnidirectional sky
3. Redshift nebula implying an expanding universe
4. If u want I could post it in the q/a section for u.
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Rakih_Elyan
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Well, he has gotten major buffs here and all. Rebirth also brought some pretty interesting stuff.
The beautiful part is that if Sephiroth busts into Tier 1, that would mean Tier 1 Dissidia.
Dust_Collector
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Checked in on my q&a thread for creating the Interdimensional Rift and immediately saw several comments about Low 1-C so I tabbed out because I have nothing to contribute to discussions of tiers above 2-A lmao
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So... it qualifies for straight up Low 2-C, then?
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Indeed
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Wonderful Uni+ ultima and Clive here we go
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Well at least there's that!Wonderful Uni+ ultima and Clive here we go
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Pc is fixed now
Dust_Collector
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Glad to be back but I am also in the middle of a Gravity Rush solo verse rework too
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Congrats! Must be a huge relief
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Now we're cooking!
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Out of curiosity, which calcs remain to be done?
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Ultima storm needs to be blogged, and leviathan feats, and that lightning thing
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We need the stamina to
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I'd like someone else to blog the ultima storm calc from the few pages prior so I can evaluate it. There's really no point in me blogging it since I can't eval it myself lol
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Still quite a bit to go, but bit by bit, you'll get there.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,826
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Tried blogging the ultima storm but every time I go publish it just comes up blank and doesn't actually create a blog so uh, anyone else wanna grab the calc from earlier and do it instead
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I mean, I can try to help you there. Do you have the link?
Dust_Collector
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