Featured Matchup 2! Lightning VS Zygarde

[PaChi2]

You know, when everyone tells you that Odin can close the gap to Zygarde, its common sense that it can do it even if zygarde flies, otherwise it'd be impractical.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's not for certain if Zygarde is getting downgraded and frankly, the results of the calc (no offense obv) make no sense when even Base Groudon and Kyogre have much better feats in all medias.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Close the gap =/= including in the air

Whatever, I'm done. This has gone for way too long and out of hand

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's not for certain if Zygarde is getting downgraded and frankly, the results of the calc (no offense obv) make no sense when even Base Groudon and Kyogre have much better feats in all medias.

How does that make the calc not make sense?

It makes it unneeded, yes, but not wrong.

 

[Overlord775]

doen't this calc put Kyogre at moon level ?

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Overlord

Lina recalculated that as 7-B to High 7-A.

Regardless, can this thread even be added? It's derailed so much.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Switching my vote over for the hell of it ovo

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Overlord
Regardless, can this thread even be added? It's derailed so much.

I'm always happy with debate, and it's not like it's derailed, at least not much. The whole point of the thread is to get people talking, although some things were kinda not on topic, I don't mind. As long as there are results, I'm fine with adding them whatever they are.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Scarlet

Well, derailed is the wrong word.

I just really feel like once a vs. thread reaches 200+ replies it's probably went on too long to add.

We've closed shorter threads and not added them because of stuff like this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Ever

Because how can Base Groudon and Kyogres casually do feats higher than that, yet in their Primal Forms they do something weaker?? I can't understand this at all. And wasn't the artificial sun iirc going to burn away the entire planet as well?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Ever It's not like there's a rule to it though. And it would be a waste for the people debateing legitimately here.

@ProfessorKukui4Life Please take that to another thread. This is not the place.

 

[PaChi2]

Grace period, then?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Of course. My mistake.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Pachi2 Has someone been kind enough to keep track of the votes? If the grace period is applicable then yeah.

@Professor Thank you for understanding.

 

[PaChi2]

Hopefully not wrong.

Lightning: 10 (Sins, Gargoyle, Dragon, Weirdo, BoomYang, Newdingo, Knight, Damned of Salvation, Rin, Pachi)

This good?

And Zygarde has 7, I believe. Tho most of them had arguments that were kinda debunked, so dunno.

Imma try to summarize what has been said:

For Zygarde: range +1 danmaku as winning conditions.

For Lightning: elemental attacks + Time manipulation as wincon.

Safeguard vs Light's debuffs. Esuna vs Zygarde's. Steelguard + healing vs danmaku. Odin + teleport vs range. I dont remember if Light could dispell, but I'd say yes vs Zyg's buffs. Camouflage to prevent ice weakness (tho Light still has tons of elemental based attacks and zygarde will still be weak to something).

Apparently Zygarde's go-to is bombing the place but lightning doesnt timestop as first move.

Bonus for Light: resurrection + Odin.

Bonus for Zyg: Flight.

Zyg doesnt have a counter to Stopga/Slowga.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I have said before that debunking is a matter of opinions so I'll count anyone who isn't downright stating wrong facts. I'll go over this again when I'm at work, I'm too tired right now.

 

[Newendigo]

Did scarlet just change his avatar in a blink of a eye? we got blitzstomped really bad oVo.

 

[Overlord775]

Did scarlet just change his avatar in a blink of a eye? we got blitzstomped really bad oVo.

2fast4me

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not entirely certain who to vote. Ice attacks are a significant weakness to Zygarde, but I heard camoflauge could counter that? Additionally, not entirely certain what abilities Lightning has in her Moon Level form, but I know she should have the various elemental attacks and healing. Also, I believe Lightning is physically stronger, Moon Level+ vs Moon Level, likely higher. But by the looks of it, I think Zygrade overall edges her out in hax.

Difficult decision, but I'll lean towards Zygarde.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So I know earlier I simply said I vote because of Cal's reasoning, but I guess at this point I'll try to just say my thoughts and be done...

Since speed, is equalized, one doesn't inately have a speed edge over the other. Zygarde, while weak to Ice moves, can simply keep changing his type when the need to arrives.

Zygarde can simply use Thousand Arrows in order to strike Odin, Lightning or whatever else she has, and then they are grounded for literally the entire fight and can't reach Zygarde once he sits himself up high in the sky.

It doesn't matter how often she heals or which spells she uses at that point, since she runs on a finite amount of energy to cast spells with. Therefore, she is likely to run out simply by healing while Zygarde can just sit up in the sky unaffected by moves that can't reach him.

As for the Time Stop being the first move, I doubt that'd happen. Gaining an altitude advantage is only natural and would be fairly logical, so Zygarde flies upwards. Lightning, under the impression that she should likely end up saving energy just in case this battle takes a long time, would try to hit Zygarde with bullets or another spell like FIraga or Thundaga or Bilzzaga in order to weaken it a bit. Time Stop would be a last resort type, not a go-to move at the start of a battle.

overall, Zygarde still has my vote


Plus, in the past, threads have been accepted almost purely on the basis of one character having both flight and superior range while the other fighter has neither of those advantages, see Might Guy vs Rayquaza.

 

[Overlord775]

@medeus no, Lightning has the hax advantage, she has time manipulation and an OHK attack

@gimmy because she's totally just letting zygarde hit her, she has time slow and teletrasportation. and she also has multiple ways to block zygardes attacks. also Might guy lost that fight because the eight gate starts to break apart his body the moment he activates it

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I thought Time manipulation was limited to her higher tier keys as mentioned above; also, her OHK attacks have low accuracy.

 

[Schnee_One]

So Zygard is still moon level? Neat.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

No off topic replies

 

[CrackerVolley]

Sorry

 

[Golem_Guy_(Neo)]

I vote for Lightning due to her many skills and her ability to use Odin. Not only could she slow down and stop time for Zygarde, but she can also use Poisonaga and Imperilga to wear her opponent down. Add this to her ability to heal herself, as well as her ability to use Odin to rain down attacks on the opponent, and I think Lightning wins.

 

[BoomeYang]

So, is Zygarde still on his current tier? Or was it revoked or something? Can this continue?

 

[KinkiestSins]

So, is Zygarde still on his current tier? Or was it revoked or something? Can this continue?

yes it is still valid.

 

[Schnee_One]

Can this be added?

 

[Newendigo]

I think that you should ask in the Vs matchup addition thread.

 

[Schnee_One]

Why? Wouldn't asking here be much better?

 

[Newendigo]

Nah, I think is better ask there.

 

[Schnee_One]

All the votes are, all the admins are here, and all of them get notified when I comment here.

I'm pretty sure this is much better.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I'll leave this up some more time, if no arguments are made, I'll close it and request it to be added.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Shouldn't we update the OP in accordance to all of these votes that both characters have recieved?

 

[Schnee_One]

The OP wasn't here for most of it and counting them is a pain.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

The OP wasn't here for most of it and counting them is a pain.

So who won the

 

[Schnee_One]

I think Lightning, most of the original voters got debunked.

 

[Newendigo]

Debunking votes is not a thing Gar.

 

[Schnee_One]

You mean removing them based on debunked reasoning.

I know, just tossing out there.