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yeah, sheer dumb luck means even if there's a 1/infinity chances he wins
also, pretty sure he can just shut down Subaru's powers
also, pretty sure he can just shut down Subaru's powers
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FCOC Wiki's Strongest XII
- Thread starter InfiniteDay
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- #363
aight
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Nominating Apollyon Bela for High 6-B. Crushing of and immunity to anything Low 1-A or above means that Zephyr's Lawhax doesn't work, and her crest allows her to aggressively shit on his territory spreading and eike's bullets
Last edited:
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Will add.
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Phoenix Runihura is no longer Low 2-C or 2-A. He was upgraded to High 1-C so I'll nominate him for that. He probably stomps Zain.
I'll also nominate him for the first Low 5-B since there's literally no one there.
As well as High 6-A maybe a match between him and Jay is possible...
I'll also nominate him for the first Low 5-B since there's literally no one there.
As well as High 6-A maybe a match between him and Jay is possible...
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Most of my stuff are in-progress and/or under revisions but I think this one is fine.
I'm nominating Shinbad for strongest 1-B. He stomps Calmus via T0 hax and some passives, as well as resisting lots of stuff. His dimensionality is also always rising each moment so he would just transcend Calmus the moment the fight starts and wins.
I'm nominating Shinbad for strongest 1-B. He stomps Calmus via T0 hax and some passives, as well as resisting lots of stuff. His dimensionality is also always rising each moment so he would just transcend Calmus the moment the fight starts and wins.
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Bruh. How often are u changing ur cosmology?
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I think this is only the 2nd change to it. And probably the last one.
I wasn't happy with the older versions of the cosmology, so I changed it to fit my preferences and the verse a little more. It's still not perfect but I like it a lot and it makes a lot more sense in-verse.
I wasn't happy with the older versions of the cosmology, so I changed it to fit my preferences and the verse a little more. It's still not perfect but I like it a lot and it makes a lot more sense in-verse.
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Hey!
Is this thread still active?
Is this thread still active?
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Notinating God Emperor Frost for 2-A and Frederick for Low 7-B and 5-B
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Where would they place for each?
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i feel first place
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also Frederick probably takes the third 6-B spot as swell
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Eh, for 2-A Frost gets hyper-stomped by Aether, but you should win second. Aether's cosmology is just too damn high. For Frederick, I think they take first in Low 7-B, but Colosseum has High 1-A hax, so you probably take second.
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The Grail allow Frost to react to and power null beings quite far into tier 0, so i'm gonna contest that
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Gonna suggest it might be safer to put Blackjack into her own placing above the other Fallout Equestria Characters.
She beats everyone else from FoE anyways but I'm fine if that's a bit too much to ask.
She beats everyone else from FoE anyways but I'm fine if that's a bit too much to ask.
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Goodluck. Aether can control the narrative of her verse, which is detached from infinite detachments from layers beyond definition and meaning which encompass extremely large tier 0 hierarchies. It is a level of tier 0 which is undefinable by any amount of mathematical sets. The Akashic Records are literally nothing in comparison.
It's basically the strongest Plot Manipulation imaginable.
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the Akashic Records are this
Boundless (The Akashic Records is a Realm above all Lower-Order Realms which holds all information of their Past, Present, and Future. Even the highest hierarchy of these Lower-Order Realms being seen as equal to the lowest resident of the Lower-Order Realm, with both being compared to fiction to those who control the Records, no matter how high they climb or how many hierarchies they stack on top of each other. Such Lower-Order Realms including ones with an infinite hierarchy of Gods, with the difference between Gods being as large as the difference between the lowest God and humans, which transcend a Singularity with infinite layers, each infinitely deeper than the last, with even the first layer existing beyond dimensions. This, and Lower-Order Realms with even higher peaks, is fiction held within the Akashic Records, which exists outside of any and all hierarchies)
and to put this into context, Lovecraftian cosmology is canonically part of a Lower-Order Realm, so i'm pretty sure the Grail's potency is above Aether
Boundless (The Akashic Records is a Realm above all Lower-Order Realms which holds all information of their Past, Present, and Future. Even the highest hierarchy of these Lower-Order Realms being seen as equal to the lowest resident of the Lower-Order Realm, with both being compared to fiction to those who control the Records, no matter how high they climb or how many hierarchies they stack on top of each other. Such Lower-Order Realms including ones with an infinite hierarchy of Gods, with the difference between Gods being as large as the difference between the lowest God and humans, which transcend a Singularity with infinite layers, each infinitely deeper than the last, with even the first layer existing beyond dimensions. This, and Lower-Order Realms with even higher peaks, is fiction held within the Akashic Records, which exists outside of any and all hierarchies)
and to put this into context, Lovecraftian cosmology is canonically part of a Lower-Order Realm, so i'm pretty sure the Grail's potency is above Aether
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No.
Lovecraftian cosmology is like, 1 layer above baseline 0.
I'll try and explain Rather's cosmology starting from "world beyond measure" based on what I read on the verse page as well as what Rather's said before.
The World Beyond Measure is an infinite amount of inaccessible gaps above baseline 0. (These gaps are equivalent to the gaps between High 1-A and 0)
The World Beyond Comprehension is another infinite amount of inaccessible gaps above that.
The World Beyond Meaning is detached from the idea of hierarchies entirely.
The World Beyond is even beyond that, and continues extending infinitely upwards.
The World Above is outside of the world Beyond's reach entirely, and still continues to spiral infinitely upwards.
The World Above is what Aether is capable of manipulating narratively iirc.
Lovecraftian cosmology is like, 1 layer above baseline 0.
I'll try and explain Rather's cosmology starting from "world beyond measure" based on what I read on the verse page as well as what Rather's said before.
The World Beyond Measure is an infinite amount of inaccessible gaps above baseline 0. (These gaps are equivalent to the gaps between High 1-A and 0)
The World Beyond Comprehension is another infinite amount of inaccessible gaps above that.
The World Beyond Meaning is detached from the idea of hierarchies entirely.
The World Beyond is even beyond that, and continues extending infinitely upwards.
The World Above is outside of the world Beyond's reach entirely, and still continues to spiral infinitely upwards.
The World Above is what Aether is capable of manipulating narratively iirc.
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And here I thought my cosmology was nigh-impossible to understand.
In an attempt to understand what I just read (and got from other profiles related to this)
Dimensions < Infinite Singularity < Humans < Base Tier 0 < Love Craft Stuff < Base Lower Order Realms (each one of them includes an infinite layer of Gods, each one being like the difference between a Lower Order Realm and a human.) < An infinite amount of these realms < Akashic Records which see them as fiction and exists beyond all hierarchies < Higher Order Realms < Somehow more hirarchies < the grail
That how it's supposed to work?
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Just quickly gonna clarify some stuff
Each step within the layer is fully transcendend above the previous one. Now although I personally use the term "transcendent" like the difference between 1-A and High 1-A or High 1-A and 0, I didnt actually end up tiering it like this for two reasons. 1. Ppl would say things like "that doesnt look like tier 0" and 2. I just realy dislike the idea of everyone beyond the second step being tier 0.
To get to this layer one must transcend the entirety of the first layer. I just ended up making it High 1-A
Although technically not wrong, it simplifies it quite a bit. To simply copy paste from the verse page:
"First of all, what is the meaning? Meaning is derived from, descriptions, definitions, interpretations, intent, etc.. It itself is however far more vague and broad. Meaning is also what one would think, say, feel about something or oneself. Meaning both holds things objectivity and subjectivity from any standpoint. If you were to remove the meaning of number from, for example 10, it would just end up being “some random lines”. That is not all however. Anything described by that number would also lose the ability to be described as such. It would be as if the number 10 never existed in the first place and that 11 comes after 9 would be perfectly normal. It is not that this is a state so incomprehensible, that any description fails on it, but in actuality, describing or talking about it is impossible in the first place. Meaning itself doesn’t even reach these things, which includes the meaning they asserted on themselves as well. To clarify, beyond meaning and without meaning are not equivalent.
Instead of existing beyond meaning, these beings can also assert nearly any meaning upon them. The only exception would be “the meaning of granting/removing/changing someone/something else’s meaning. When applying meaning, they do not need any “cause” for it. For example, if the want to look like X and be Y, while technically neither apply, they can. If you were to ask someone “what is that?” they would tell you “obviously Y” and if you ask “what do they look like?”, the answer will be “Well, like X”. Even if you ask them whether they realize how contradictory the thing is they just said, they won’t notice a thing, because to them it isn’t contradictory at all. They are looking at it after all.
The World Beyond Meaning itself possesses no Steps, nore “depth” to move in. The only thing it does have is a Boundary Layer, which is also by far the hardest to pass through. If a being beyond meaning “choses” to possess meaning, they will exist within the Boundary Layer, rather than the actual Layer itself."
It's not beyond it. At least not in "power". Wouldnt make much sense if it was, considering Beyond Meaning is also beyond hierarchies. Anyways, this layer has an infinite amount of infinite hierachies of infinite hierarchies of etc. Although no amount of transcending will ever reach the end, there is still an endpoint. The edge of the Cosmic Egg. The Cosmic Egg itslef is encompassed within Tartarus.
Yet again, technichally not wrong, but way too simple.
"The World Above, also called Corpse of Chaos or simply Aether, is Aether’s Pseudo Narrative. When Aether came to be she immediately tried to escape the Narrative since she didn’t want to accept that Narrative is now the thing expressing her, instead of her expressing Narrative. Although those attempts were ultimately futile, she did manage to “fuse” with the Narrative itself or to be more exact, she is permanently attempting to. These attempts lead to the solidification of her Pseudo Narrative, as well as her “self” within it, who holds the Narrative of the Cosmic Egg. This true self is a weird manifestation made up of “Narrative”, making it impossible to approach it, let alone interact with. This “Layer” is also home to the “Descendents of Chaos”, who are beings that got directly empowered when Chaos split herself."
Now one might ask "what is "Narrative"?". Well, this is gonna take some time to explain, so I'll just copy paste again.
"Narrative is something that exists around nearly anything. When “observing” something the thing we observe is not actually that thing itself, but its Narrative. It is the very thing that “conveys” what it is that we are observing in the first place. Narrative isn’t necessarily looking for a direct way of explaining this thing, but might be looking for a more indirect way. For example, instead of trying to attribute something that can not possess any attributes, the Narrative will simply convey it by “saying” “this thing can not have any attributes”. It simply “tries to get the point across” by any means necessary and uses whatever may be most effective to do so. In terms of writing, even leaving a page blank is Narrative and so is ripping out a page or not having one in the first place. Although it isn’t explaining anything, it is still conveying “something”. Narrative can also be used to “group” things together. First of all, although there is technically only “one” Narrative, it “splits” itself into many more. Narrative existing means that there is Narrative of Narrative existing, as well as Narrative of Narrative of Narrative existing and so on. Although these are all different Narratives in what they describe and what they are, they are also, in a way, all the same. Now within a story this would basically be, for example: “Character X has the Narrative of being X. This X has the Narrative of being on earth. Earth has the Narrative of being within the Solar System. […]. All the way until you reach “this thing has the Narrative of being conveyed by the Narrative”. From there on out it is only “The Narrative of Narrative of Narrative. . .” and these are indeed all “one and the same, yet always describing something different”. However, there are also completely “separated” Narratives. These are called “Parallel” or “Superior” Narratives. They do not interact with each other “whatsoever” (Parallel ones can be “grouped together” by Superior ones). However, this is something one has to be careful with, since not interacting with each other is simply “The Narrative of not interacting with one another”, grouping them together as well within the same Narrative. Same goes for “The Narrative of many Narratives” and similar things. The best way to describe their “independence” from one another would be how talking about something becoming real, doesn’t actually become real. (Just to make one thing clear, it is completely impossible to “show” such Narratives, since any which way you try to convey them, they will always just be part of the Narrative. To better elaborate, if someone was to write a book, everything within the book, even if all pages were left blank or ripped out, would be “Narrative”. If one was to write a book with many unrelated stories, all these stories would still be “Narrative” and grouped together under the label of “the book”. They would however be separated by what is called a “Pseudo Narrative”. They basically behave independent from one another like two Parallel Narratives would, while in actuality still being part of the same Narrative. If we wanted to look at “truly independent” Narratives, I guess one could look at two different books with different stories. Unless we try to apply Narrative to real life, we can’t actually group them together. Another way to look at it, is to try and find a “place” where there is no elaboration. For example, when reading a story that shows that “books” are a thing with it, then “books” are a part of the Narrative. If we are never told what the books are about, the “actual” content of these books would be a “separate” Narrative. For the characters within the story, who can read these stories, whether they are elaborated or not, these stories would be part of “their” Narrative. This creates an interlocking “Narrative Chain”, with each piece of the chain having innumerable, interlocking chain pieces. So while for one person something might technically be a “Parallel Narrative” it might not be for the person standing right next to them. Earlier I mentioned that “a thing” creates a Narrative. This is however only partially true. While X creates the Narrative of X, it can also work the other way around. Chaos for example can create Narrative which then in return creates the thing it tries to convey. For this it is not needed to understand the thing that is being conveyed. It only needs the means of “being conveyable”. Although she can create Narrative, she kind of lacks the means to take it away, since “removing Narrative” is just “The Narrative of removing Narrative”. With this even Chaos is “stuck” within her own Narratives. The only way to “truly” remove all Narratives would be for her to stop thinking. Within this state she would be utterly “non conveyable”, since even the Narrative of “Chaos doesn't think" wouldn't be able to exist. However, removing something’s Narrative doesn't necessarily remove the very thing it conveys. What exactly happened to it after becoming "non conveyable" simply can't be known."
Yes
It's the first realm beyond the physical world. It encompasses the infinite void which encompasses the world tree, housing any conceivable universes of any imaginable complexitey, as well as any of their alterations. Basically an infinite dimensional structure housing an infinite amount of universes of each dimension, each one of them being different. From each of these universes grows a branch with an infnite amount of alternate versions. Each one of them has their own branch, etc. Basically, World Tree (High 1-B) < Void (low 1-A) < Baseline Beyond Measure (1-A).
Each step within the layer is fully transcendend above the previous one. Now although I personally use the term "transcendent" like the difference between 1-A and High 1-A or High 1-A and 0, I didnt actually end up tiering it like this for two reasons. 1. Ppl would say things like "that doesnt look like tier 0" and 2. I just realy dislike the idea of everyone beyond the second step being tier 0.
To get to this layer one must transcend the entirety of the first layer. I just ended up making it High 1-A
Although technically not wrong, it simplifies it quite a bit. To simply copy paste from the verse page:
"First of all, what is the meaning? Meaning is derived from, descriptions, definitions, interpretations, intent, etc.. It itself is however far more vague and broad. Meaning is also what one would think, say, feel about something or oneself. Meaning both holds things objectivity and subjectivity from any standpoint. If you were to remove the meaning of number from, for example 10, it would just end up being “some random lines”. That is not all however. Anything described by that number would also lose the ability to be described as such. It would be as if the number 10 never existed in the first place and that 11 comes after 9 would be perfectly normal. It is not that this is a state so incomprehensible, that any description fails on it, but in actuality, describing or talking about it is impossible in the first place. Meaning itself doesn’t even reach these things, which includes the meaning they asserted on themselves as well. To clarify, beyond meaning and without meaning are not equivalent.
Instead of existing beyond meaning, these beings can also assert nearly any meaning upon them. The only exception would be “the meaning of granting/removing/changing someone/something else’s meaning. When applying meaning, they do not need any “cause” for it. For example, if the want to look like X and be Y, while technically neither apply, they can. If you were to ask someone “what is that?” they would tell you “obviously Y” and if you ask “what do they look like?”, the answer will be “Well, like X”. Even if you ask them whether they realize how contradictory the thing is they just said, they won’t notice a thing, because to them it isn’t contradictory at all. They are looking at it after all.
The World Beyond Meaning itself possesses no Steps, nore “depth” to move in. The only thing it does have is a Boundary Layer, which is also by far the hardest to pass through. If a being beyond meaning “choses” to possess meaning, they will exist within the Boundary Layer, rather than the actual Layer itself."
It's not beyond it. At least not in "power". Wouldnt make much sense if it was, considering Beyond Meaning is also beyond hierarchies. Anyways, this layer has an infinite amount of infinite hierachies of infinite hierarchies of etc. Although no amount of transcending will ever reach the end, there is still an endpoint. The edge of the Cosmic Egg. The Cosmic Egg itslef is encompassed within Tartarus.
Yet again, technichally not wrong, but way too simple.
"The World Above, also called Corpse of Chaos or simply Aether, is Aether’s Pseudo Narrative. When Aether came to be she immediately tried to escape the Narrative since she didn’t want to accept that Narrative is now the thing expressing her, instead of her expressing Narrative. Although those attempts were ultimately futile, she did manage to “fuse” with the Narrative itself or to be more exact, she is permanently attempting to. These attempts lead to the solidification of her Pseudo Narrative, as well as her “self” within it, who holds the Narrative of the Cosmic Egg. This true self is a weird manifestation made up of “Narrative”, making it impossible to approach it, let alone interact with. This “Layer” is also home to the “Descendents of Chaos”, who are beings that got directly empowered when Chaos split herself."
Now one might ask "what is "Narrative"?". Well, this is gonna take some time to explain, so I'll just copy paste again.
"Narrative is something that exists around nearly anything. When “observing” something the thing we observe is not actually that thing itself, but its Narrative. It is the very thing that “conveys” what it is that we are observing in the first place. Narrative isn’t necessarily looking for a direct way of explaining this thing, but might be looking for a more indirect way. For example, instead of trying to attribute something that can not possess any attributes, the Narrative will simply convey it by “saying” “this thing can not have any attributes”. It simply “tries to get the point across” by any means necessary and uses whatever may be most effective to do so. In terms of writing, even leaving a page blank is Narrative and so is ripping out a page or not having one in the first place. Although it isn’t explaining anything, it is still conveying “something”. Narrative can also be used to “group” things together. First of all, although there is technically only “one” Narrative, it “splits” itself into many more. Narrative existing means that there is Narrative of Narrative existing, as well as Narrative of Narrative of Narrative existing and so on. Although these are all different Narratives in what they describe and what they are, they are also, in a way, all the same. Now within a story this would basically be, for example: “Character X has the Narrative of being X. This X has the Narrative of being on earth. Earth has the Narrative of being within the Solar System. […]. All the way until you reach “this thing has the Narrative of being conveyed by the Narrative”. From there on out it is only “The Narrative of Narrative of Narrative. . .” and these are indeed all “one and the same, yet always describing something different”. However, there are also completely “separated” Narratives. These are called “Parallel” or “Superior” Narratives. They do not interact with each other “whatsoever” (Parallel ones can be “grouped together” by Superior ones). However, this is something one has to be careful with, since not interacting with each other is simply “The Narrative of not interacting with one another”, grouping them together as well within the same Narrative. Same goes for “The Narrative of many Narratives” and similar things. The best way to describe their “independence” from one another would be how talking about something becoming real, doesn’t actually become real. (Just to make one thing clear, it is completely impossible to “show” such Narratives, since any which way you try to convey them, they will always just be part of the Narrative. To better elaborate, if someone was to write a book, everything within the book, even if all pages were left blank or ripped out, would be “Narrative”. If one was to write a book with many unrelated stories, all these stories would still be “Narrative” and grouped together under the label of “the book”. They would however be separated by what is called a “Pseudo Narrative”. They basically behave independent from one another like two Parallel Narratives would, while in actuality still being part of the same Narrative. If we wanted to look at “truly independent” Narratives, I guess one could look at two different books with different stories. Unless we try to apply Narrative to real life, we can’t actually group them together. Another way to look at it, is to try and find a “place” where there is no elaboration. For example, when reading a story that shows that “books” are a thing with it, then “books” are a part of the Narrative. If we are never told what the books are about, the “actual” content of these books would be a “separate” Narrative. For the characters within the story, who can read these stories, whether they are elaborated or not, these stories would be part of “their” Narrative. This creates an interlocking “Narrative Chain”, with each piece of the chain having innumerable, interlocking chain pieces. So while for one person something might technically be a “Parallel Narrative” it might not be for the person standing right next to them. Earlier I mentioned that “a thing” creates a Narrative. This is however only partially true. While X creates the Narrative of X, it can also work the other way around. Chaos for example can create Narrative which then in return creates the thing it tries to convey. For this it is not needed to understand the thing that is being conveyed. It only needs the means of “being conveyable”. Although she can create Narrative, she kind of lacks the means to take it away, since “removing Narrative” is just “The Narrative of removing Narrative”. With this even Chaos is “stuck” within her own Narratives. The only way to “truly” remove all Narratives would be for her to stop thinking. Within this state she would be utterly “non conveyable”, since even the Narrative of “Chaos doesn't think" wouldn't be able to exist. However, removing something’s Narrative doesn't necessarily remove the very thing it conveys. What exactly happened to it after becoming "non conveyable" simply can't be known."
Yes
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Letting people make more than one tier 0 was a mistake
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I have no idea how this is even relevant, considering that neither one of us has more than1 tier 0 from their verse nominated.
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Maybe it was better to not have tier 0 characters involved in this thread....
Especially if you have a verse made up of them.
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That's kinda why I remember suggesting against Tier 0 being on these lists.
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If everybody else is stomped exact blackjack, i'll place it.
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anyway, ima pull an antvasima and ask what are the excepted placements?
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Every other FoE character gets killed by the Fate Hax/3-A Soul based Weapons. the former having an almost 100% chance of being triggered in that key.
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If a character is suggested for that tier which applies for what I've stated, i'll do it.
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I'll go over how she would fair against all the others briefly. Also her being sub rel means she blitzes all of them anyways.
Cognitum: Comes the closest due to Intelligence and her also having a 3-A weapon but the Fate Hax really screws her over hard.
Puppysmiles: Her gimmick of being the verses "Thunder McQueen but he wins" esc punching bag gets nulled by Either of Blackjack's 3-A weapons, of which she always leads with the sword.
Remains Pip: Wrecked by the Soul and Fate stuff. Blackjack would also have a intel advantage that would further prompt her to use her more broken weapons from the start.
Blackjack/Cognitum are only 3-A via weapons so they really shouldn't be put there.
Cognitum: Comes the closest due to Intelligence and her also having a 3-A weapon but the Fate Hax really screws her over hard.
Puppysmiles: Her gimmick of being the verses "Thunder McQueen but he wins" esc punching bag gets nulled by Either of Blackjack's 3-A weapons, of which she always leads with the sword.
Remains Pip: Wrecked by the Soul and Fate stuff. Blackjack would also have a intel advantage that would further prompt her to use her more broken weapons from the start.
Blackjack/Cognitum are only 3-A via weapons so they really shouldn't be put there.
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I used to think tier 0 was weird on this list as well. But tbh it's literally just an extension to High 1-A and beyond. So I no longer think the same.
Having multiple tier 0s is fine lol. As long as the cosmologies and verses supporting them are good in quality there's no problem :/
Having multiple tier 0s is fine lol. As long as the cosmologies and verses supporting them are good in quality there's no problem :/
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So long as there’s no bias towards anything. For example “The highest possible tier 0” would still be equal to “The highest impossible tier 0” because they’re literally meant to be the same thing.
I just don’t want anyone thinking they should have an edge just because their profile is more abstract and verbose.
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Personally against Tier 0 being here as it's own rankable tier.
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I mean I'm kinda against encouraging both I guess. I dunno, I just don't look forward to seeing new users just try and put things in those tiers. Not saying either can't be done proper though.
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I mean, it's two completely different things whether you come onto this site, look at the tiering system and go "hmm, yes, I'll make my verse to be tier 0 for no other narrative reason than wanting it to be the stronkest" or you come on here, use our made up tiering system to tier your verse and it just so happens to end up being tier 0.
I can kinda understand the hate towards the first one, but most certainly not towards the second one.
I can kinda understand the hate towards the first one, but most certainly not towards the second one.
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