Fate's Initiation Ceremony: Meltilith VS. Lavos

[RM97]

If BB just passively adapts and absorbs one of the Lavos copies the match is either her win or an incon since she will just start absorbing the other Lavos copies with his own powers
Also Lavos' stuff isnt passive from what I've heard

Adapting to/Copying 5D hax without any feats is NLF unless you can show me BB can do that,


And you can check other threads. Lavos literally has passive absorption as well as Type 2 Concept Hax by virtue of absorbing Dreams from the Sea of Zorovan

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Did you guys just pit BB against a 5D smurf?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

TBH, i really have problems with the 5D lavos and am planning to make a CRT

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

But that's for another time

 

[Paul_Frank]

@rm97

I mean BB has a 5D mind and probably other stuff so it's not like 5D is completely out of her paygrade. She gains all the stuff the user has when she absorbs them btw.

There are also plenty of threads with Lavos that say his stuff isn't passive at all

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

>checks BB's profile

>She also has Type 3


So another BB absorbs Lavos and this becomes incon

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Tbh, BB can arguably have very limited 5D hax, and resistance due to having a mind that is transcendental over the Multiverse.

Also, her concept manipulation can probably be type 2 now with a Multiverse involved, but that will require a CRT I guess. Welp... Time got another BB CRT....

 

[RM97]

@rm97
I mean BB has a 5D mind and probably other stuff so it's not like 5D is completely out of her paygrade

There are also plenty of threads with Lavos that say his stuff isn't passive at all

Having 5D mind =/= Being able to copy 5D Hax especially Type 2 Concept Hax. If you feel otherwise, make a CRT for it.


The absorption is legit lol. You can check any of the recent threads for Lavos.

 

[Paul_Frank]

She isn't power copying though she is absorbing also as of now her stuff is still 8D

You can also check a number of threads from Lavos where people agree his stuff isn't passive

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Does BB have a win con? If not then this is a stomp.

Apparently Lavos is a 5D smurf so until we get that higher-D hax sorted out for BB, I don't think BB has a chance at winning here due to Smurf stuff.

We should pit BB against non-smurf 2-As tbh...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

She did absorb the Mooncell's Angelica Cage which is where the Mooncell's higher Dimensional mind is, and how BB obtained hers by assimilating it into her.

 

[RM97]

She isn't power copying though she is absorbing
You can also check a number of threads from Lavos where people agree his stuff isn't passive

How is she absorbing when Lavos is doing the same Passively on a Conceptual Level on a 5D scale. You can even check the recent Lavos CRT as well as his matches against Madoka and others lol.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Nasuverse is fodder in tier 2-A, but probably in the Top 10

 

[Schnee_One]

Man am I glad the upgrade happened before Digimon got upgraded.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

She isn't power copying though she is absorbing
You can also check a number of threads from Lavos where people agree his stuff isn't passive

How is she absorbing when Lavos is doing the same Passively on a Conceptual Level on a 5D scale. You can even check the recent Lavos CRT as well as his matches against Madoka and others lol.

the funny part is madoka's match has nothing about passive 5D absorption

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Neither do any of his losses against 2-A, and decidedly non 5D characters

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I don't think BB's gonna get Type 2 concept manip.

 

[Paul_Frank]

His concept manip and absorption aren't passive so one of the Lavos copies would be absorbed by either BB or one of the infinite other BBs and then the match would be incon

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

There was a thread that talked about Type 2 Concept Manipulation for BB.

I forgot what happened there though. I think she got only Type 3?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yep, found nothing on passive 5D absorption, so there are like 3 takes here:

-You're mistaken

-You're lying

-All of Lavos' matches should be removed as he just 5D noms everybody except unicron, and his page needs to be updated as there's nothing about resistance negation on his page except against other Lavoses

Lavoses? Lavosi?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Manipulating the concepts of time and space is Type 3 if I remember and size tends to not affect the type of a concept.

 

[RM97]

Yep, found nothing on passive 5D absorption, so there are like 3 takes here:
-You're mistaken

-You're lying

-All of Lavos' matches should be removed as he just 5D noms everybody except unicron, and his page needs to be updated as there's nothing about resistance negation on his page except against other Lavoses

Lavoses? Lavosi?

You know what's funny is that Fate himself here outrights states that Lavos consumes passively. He is the same guy who did all the things you see in Lavos's profile


And that's pretty bold of someone to accuse others of lying when they can't properly address my points on how BB is copying 5D hax when she has not shown to do so

 

[Paul_Frank]

Again, she already absorbed something 5D which is how she got her higher d mind and stuff, so she can still absorb Lavos and gain all his stuff her hax is also technically 8D still

 

[RM97]

Again, she already absorbed something 5D which is how she got her higher d mind and stuff, so she can still absorb Lavos and gain all his stuff her hax is also technically 8D still </div>

And what is that 5D thing? Mooncell? Because passive 5D absorption on a Type 2 Conceptual level is outright better than regular absorption even if its 5D

 

[Paul_Frank]

Crazy how again, most Lavos matches don't say his stuff is passive at all. His absorption being more impressive still wouldn't stop BB from absorbing him and gaining his stuff

BB also has her own type 3 acausality so absorbing her doesn't win the match iirc

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

BB's greatest ability is her ability to make users argue for her no matter what the circumstances is.

BB vs Hajun? Get ****** on Hajun, CCC GG

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

And that's pretty bold of someone to accuse others of lying when they can't properly address my points on how BB is copying 5D hax when she has not shown to do so

False Equivalency

Riddle me this, then: why does Lavos have losses against non 5D characters without any counter to absorption, whose threads never talked about passive 5D absorption, when Lavos' page is only "Possibly 5D" scaling from the cross which is also "Possibly 5D" while we're using the 2-A versions?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

BB's greatest ability is her ability to make users argue for her no matter what the circumstances is.
BB vs Hajun? Get ****** on Hajun, CCC GG

You anger me to no end.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

That's nice Zep.

 

[RM97]

Crazy how again, most Lavos matches don't say his stuff is passive at all. His absorption being more impressive still wouldn't stop BB from absorbing him and gaining his stuff
BB also has her own type 3 acausality so absorbing her doesn't win the match iirc

Let's address everything you said here properly.

Fate himself stated that his Absoprtion is passive. I know this sounds like Appeal to Authority (No pun intended) since I have only played a little bit of CT and going by whats given but given his credibility as a debater who even recently did Type 2 Conceptual Manip post for Chronoverse as well as the first one to point out Lavos's acausality, its not far fetched to say he is right. Unless you have proof that its not the case for which you can make a CRT.

Lets give you and everyone here the benefit of the doubt and say his hax is not passive at all. BB absorbs Lavos and gains his stuff right? I can say the same in case of Lavos who has been outright argued in threads to open up with Absorption. Moreover, said absorption works on Type 1 Abstracts on a Type 2 Conceptual Level in a 5D scale. So unless BB has feats on such a level, Lavos from another timeline Absorbs FRA.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Going Lavos FRA

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I almost read it as "they absorb each other". Kinky... but gross since its a bug. Eugh...

Sadly, I'll have to say Lavos FRA; but remind me how this isn't a stomp again?

 

[RM97]

And that's pretty bold of someone to accuse others of lying when they can't properly address my points on how BB is copying 5D hax when she has not shown to do so

False Equivalency
Riddle me this, then: why does Lavos have losses against non 5D characters without any counter to absorption, whose threads never talked about passive 5D absorption, when Lavos' page is only "Possibly 5D" scaling from the cross which is also "Possibly 5D" while we're using the 2-A versions?

I'm not sure if you know what false equivalency is or not but lol let me humour you.

His losses against non-5D charas are mostly outdated and consisted of those who were OP. Additionally I too did not see any passive hax back then. This was even discussed in the new CRT thread for Lavos.

Like I said, if you think that there are misleading/false info on Lavos, then go ahead do a CRT. I'm just going by whats in his profile and what Fate and Cal said in threads

 

[Paul_Frank]

Even if Lavos absorbs another BB comes in and absorbs. Lavos has possibly 5D stuff, it's not even concrete and it's still not above BB's paygrade anyway

If BB absorbs and gets all of Lavos' stuff it just becomes incon because she will constantly absorb him while he absorbs some of the infinite BBs as well

Also you cant really make a CRT to say if an ability is passive or not since you just establish that in threads.

insert BB has 8D hax argument here

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But I heard we use possibly in debates?

 

[Paul_Frank]

We use the highest tier if nothing is specified but the match specifies 2-A Lavos not high 2-A Lavos so 5D is unused

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't know about the passive stuff but Lavos takes this incredibly easily.

For one, she's severely outmatched when it comes to pure AP when Time Devourer's literal flakes it dropped off when it landed on earth as a 5-A is 2-A at this point. The scaling chain for Lavos even then far eclipses BB or anything in Fate.

For two, the absorption. The ability, whether it's passive or not, is broken, even beyond the fact that it absorbs on the conceptual level. Lavos's range and growth makes it impossible to for BB to recover from it even though she has similar acausality to Lavos itself because Lavos is able to put down other Lavoses with it despite them having that level of acausailty. There's that and given that it ate the Dragon God from its shadow and given the stuff it did to the Dragon God, like breaking it down so fine that when the parts that used to be the Dragon God after Lavos ate it fuse together, they don't fuse back into the Dragon God, they fuse into Lavos.

Four, precog in itself may not work due to fate schenanigans. Fate with a lowercase f, by the way. The whole "Future refused to change" kind of stuff.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Question, what kind of scaling chain are we looking at for lavos???

Also reviewing the Versus rules. i didn't see anything about "Likely" or "Possibely" ratings

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Fights 44 2-As and wins unless they use some super specific weapon that merges infinite timelines, both existent and nonexistent, into a single possible timeline and moves it to a higher plane which even then required a ton of prep (Lavos can still absorb this weapon if they lose btw).

Along with a ton of other 2-A scaling chains that I forgot since Lavos's scaling chain hasn't mattered since Digimon and SMT moved to being well...Digimon and SMT.

I wasn't kidding about 5-A Lavos flakes being 2-A. The Frozen Flame is a well-into-2-A weapon in the series and it's literally Lavos's dandruff when it crash landed.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Does being 2 infinities above baseline 2-A (possibely 3 actually) quantify as being > taking on 44 (2-A's)????