Fastest Thing Alive vs A Sponge! (Sonic vs Spongebob) 11-4-2

[Psychomaster35]

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[AStrangeverse]

By what means does he resist it, and what kind of BFR have they resisted? If not that, then sealing should work (Keep in mind that the BFR is smurf 4D that works on a above baseline 2-A level).

• BFR (If SpongeBob falls out of an area Hans can simply bring him back by extending even in the dream world)

sealing is also resisted

and how is the BFR 4D? where was that accepted?

that above baseline 2-A stuff is only range as well

 

[LaserPrecision]

• BFR (If SpongeBob falls out of an area Hans can simply bring him back by extending even in the dream world)

sealing is also resisted

and how is the BFR 4D? where was that accepted?

that above baseline 2-A stuff is only range as well

Has it ever shown to work on a 2-A range? Looks like he just gets moved a few feet back on stage.

IIRC, it's via Chaos Energy. Chaos Energy affects 4D beings like Solaris, with Chaos Energy being channeled to perform Chaos Control abilities (Such as Time manip, Spatial manip, etc. witch each hax depending on complexity requiring more energy than others). Basically just means having a 3D resistance isn't sufficient to resist it. Though what Spongebob has doesn't seem like a traditional resistance. Just seems like a way to circumvent BFR.

Yeah, above baseline 2-A range.

And why is sealing restricted if Sonic gets all optional equipment?

 

[AStrangeverse]

Has it ever shown to work on a 2-A range? Looks like he just gets moved a few feet back on stage.

range wouldn't matter, cuz.. that's just it.. range

not layers

range only comes into play if the foe has shit like dimensional travel

IIRC, it's via Chaos Energy. Chaos Energy affects 4D beings like Solaris, with Chaos Energy being channeled to perform Chaos Control abilities (Such as Time manip, Spatial manip, etc. witch each hax depending on complexity requiring more energy than others). Basically just means having a 3D resistance isn't sufficient to resist it. Though what Spongebob has doesn't seem like a traditional resistance. Just seems like a way to circumvent BFR.

I'm very aware of higher-dimensional resistances, I just wanted to know where it came from

if it don't seem like a traditional resistance, that'd be something you'd have to take up with the supporters borther

Yeah, above baseline 2-A range.

as in, it'd be just range, not layered

And why is sealing restricted if Sonic gets all optional equipment?

I said resisted, not restricted

 

[LaserPrecision]

range wouldn't matter, cuz.. that's just it.. range

not layers

range only comes into play if the foe has shit like dimensional travel

Pretty sure range does matter when it comes to recovering BFR. One wouldn't assume a dude who can come back from being BFR'd to the other side of the universe can come back from being teleported to the other end of the Multiverse.

What does layers have to do with anything I've said tho?

I'm very aware of higher-dimensional resistances, I just wanted to know where it came from

if it don't seem like a traditional resistance, that'd be something you'd have to take up with the supporters borther

Fair enough

as in, it'd be just range, not layered

I didn't say it was layered tho...

I said resisted, not restricted

My mistake.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I looked at the resistance for "sealing", and that isn't nearly enough to save him from Sonic's magical esoteric sealing that freezes an enemy inside of a bubble. All Spongebob's resistance does is let him open seals on objects so he can enter. The videos linked just show him unlocking rooms in his house to enter a new room. So sealing is still a win-con.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Pretty sure range does matter when it comes to recovering BFR. One wouldn't assume a dude who can come back from being BFR'd to the other side of the universe can come back from being teleported to the other end of the Multiverse.

you just said the same thing I said, but phrased differently

What does layers have to do with anything I've said tho?

cuz you mentioned range, which inherently wouldn't matter how big if the ability itself is 3D and resisted

I didn't say it was layered tho...

I did tho

 

[AStrangeverse]

I looked at the resistance for "sealing", and that isn't nearly enough to save him from Sonic's magical esoteric sealing that freezes an enemy inside of a bubble. All Spongebob's resistance does is let him open seals on objects so he can enter. The videos linked just show him unlocking rooms in his house to enter a new room. So sealing is still a win-con.

Magic Hands is pretty basic sealing

it ain't 4D and it ain't even layered, so if Spongebob has a resistance to it, then it ain't gonna work

 

[LaserPrecision]

you just said the same thing I said, but phrased differently

So we'd agree Spongebob can't come back from 2-A ranged BFR given that's what I was claiming.

cuz you mentioned range, which inherently wouldn't matter how big if the ability itself is 3D and resisted

Oh. It'd 4D because it uses Chaos Energy which affects 4D beings. Got confused what you meant. Also Spongebob's resistance isn't gonna work here. "Resistance" would imply he doesn't even get teleported to begin with. His "resistance" just has a hand bring him back within the boarders of a level.

I did tho

Now you're confusing me. You're saying Sonic has layered BFR or what?

Magic Hands is pretty basic sealing

it ain't 4D and it ain't even layered, so if Spongebob has a resistance to it, then it ain't gonna work

What? No it's not. He magically seals you inside a ball that shrinks you down and leaves you completely immobilized. All Spongebob's "resistance" does is essentially let him pick locks. Two aren't comparable at all. Would be like saying someone who can undo a seal spell placed on a door that prevents it from being open is equivalent to a spell that seals you in a pocket dimension and freezes you in place.

 

[AStrangeverse]

So we'd agree Spongebob can't come back from 2-A ranged BFR given that's what I was claiming.

Oh. It'd 4D because it uses Chaos Energy which affects 4D beings. Got confused what you meant. Also Spongebob's resistance isn't gonna work here. "Resistance" would imply he doesn't even get teleported to begin with. His "resistance" just has a hand bring him back within the boarders of a level.

Resistance is a resistance, not much I can say bout that

Now you're confusing me. You're saying Sonic has layered BFR or what?

bro, no-

layers was mentioned in-case you'd try to argue that "Above baseline 2-A range" would overcome a resistance to BFR, which wouldn't make sense, since that'd just be range

What? No it's not. He magically seals you inside a ball that shrinks you down and leaves you completely immobilized. All Spongebob's "resistance" does is essentially let him pick locks. Two aren't comparable at all. Would be like saying someone who can undo a seal spell placed on a door that prevents it from being open is equivalent to a spell that seals you in a pocket dimension and freezes you in place.

that's literally like any other form of sealing that involves containment, my guy

take Nanatsu No Taizai for example (Seven Deadly Sins), when Meliodas is sealed within the Goddess Amber

the guy is "reduced in size" to fit within the gem and is temporarily "immobilized" before he proceeds to break free

like- my guy- Magic Hands really ain't special, especially if it's only listed as sealing

Sponge's resistance tho is pretty sketchy, so I'll agree with you on that, but it's still listed, so I gotta go by it, or whatever

 

[LaserPrecision]

Resistance is a resistance, not much I can say bout that

Having a resistance doesn't mean you resist EVERY application of a hax regardless of how much different it's shown to work than what the person in question is shown to "resist". If Spongebob never came back from 2-A BFR, he sadly can't come back from 2-A BFR (Especially so when the BFR in question seals you in a separate dimension across the multiverse).

bro, no-

layers was mentioned in-case you'd try to argue that "Above baseline 2-A range" would overcome a resistance to BFR, which wouldn't make sense, since that'd just be range

Oh, of course not. Spongebob's resistance isn't a traditional resistance tho. So it doesn't help. It being able to affect 4D being does mean it can neg Spongebob's resistance tho.

that's literally like any other form of sealing that involves containment, my guy

take Nanatsu No Taizai for example (Seven Deadly Sins), when Meliodas is sealed within the Goddess Amber

the guy is "reduced in size" to fit within the gem and is temporarily "immobilized" before he proceeds to break free

like- my guy- Magic Hands really ain't special, especially if it's only listed as sealing

Sponge's resistance tho is pretty sketchy, so I'll agree with you on that, but it's still listed, so I gotta go by it, or whatever

But Spongbob's sealing is hardly even sealing. He's just unlocking a door in his house to enter another room. Spongebob was never shown to be placed into a poicket dimension where he's completely paralyzed and escape. You're heavily conflating Spongebob's resistance to degrees it's not applicable.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Having a resistance doesn't mean you resist EVERY application of a hax regardless of how much different it's shown to work than what the person in question is shown to "resist". If Spongebob never came back from 2-A BFR, he sadly can't come back from 2-A BFR (Especially so when the BFR in question seals you in a separate dimension across the multiverse).

ain't really said that you resist every application of it, but when it comes to Sonic's BFR, it's basically forceful teleportation

if a guy has willed himself to remain unaffected by a similar teleportative BFR, then it wouldn't matter how large the range is if it's 3D and resisted in the end

only reason Imma agree that'd it'd work, however, is because you claim Sonic's is 4D, not because it can somehow bypass Spongebob's resistance due to its range

that don't mean I'm changin' my vote tho, cuz uhhhhhhhhhhhh

But Spongbob's sealing is hardly even sealing. He's just unlocking a door in his house to enter another room. Spongebob was never shown to be placed into a poicket dimension where he's completely paralyzed and escape. You're heavily conflating Spongebob's resistance to degrees it's not applicable.

the fact you said that after I agreed with you about the legitimacy of his sealing resistance

damn..

 

[LaserPrecision]

ain't really said that you resist every application of it, but when it comes to Sonic's BFR, it's basically forceful teleportation

if a guy has willed himself to remain unaffected by a similar teleportative BFR, then it wouldn't matter how large the range is if it's 3D and resisted in the end

only reason Imma agree that'd it'd work, however, is because you claim Sonic's is 4D, not because it can somehow bypass Spongebob's resistance due to its range

that don't mean I'm changin' my vote tho, cuz uhhhhhhhhhhhh



the fact you said that after I agreed with you about the legitimacy of his sealing resistance

damn..

You're grossly extrapolating Spongebob's "resistance" (This isn't an insult either. Sorry if it comes out that way). He isn't just saying "no" to being sent somewhere far away. He gets sent far away, but then pulled back by Hans. It's explicitly stated on the profile:

• BFR (If SpongeBob falls out of an area Hans can simply bring him back by extending even in the dream world)

Nowhere does it say he is completely unaffected from being forcefully teleported. Only that he is returned back to the bounds of the map if he falls out of an area. You can't extrapolate that to mean if Spongebob is teleported to another universe across an infinite multiverse, hans can grab him, and return him back to where the fight started. That's not even close to how his resistance is shown to work.

The sealing bit is my mistake though. I misread what you said. However, you stated that it simply being stated means you have to go by it. And you can. But Spongebob's "sealing resistance" is shown to only be applicable in very specific scenarios. He can unlock sealed doors. He's never shown to escape sealed of dimensions tho. Those are two separate applications. One opens sealed objects/rooms, one can be used to escape from sealed off dimensions/spaces.

 

[AStrangeverse]

You're grossly extrapolating Spongebob's "resistance" (This isn't an insult either. Sorry if it comes out that way). He isn't just saying "no" to being sent somewhere far away. He gets sent far away, but then pulled back by Hans. It's explicitly stated on the profile:

you're misinterpreting what I said

"if a guy has willed himself to remain unaffected by a similar teleportative BFR, then it wouldn't matter how large the range is if it's 3D and resisted in the end"

this was just an example that I gave, not implying that Spongebob is of a similar level

I agreed with ya

Nowhere does it say he is completely unaffected from being forcefully teleported. Only that he is returned back to the bounds of the map if he falls out of an area. You can't extrapolate that to mean if Spongebob is teleported to another universe across an infinite multiverse, hans can grab him, and return him back to where the fight started. That's not even close to how his resistance is shown to work.

it was an example I gave, borther

calm ya milkers

The sealing bit is my mistake though. I misread what you said. However, you stated that it simply being stated means you have to go by it. And you can. But Spongebob's "sealing resistance" is shown to only be applicable in very specific scenarios. He can unlock sealed doors. He's never shown to escape sealed of dimensions tho. Those are two separate applications. One opens sealed objects/rooms, one can be used to escape from sealed off dimensions/spaces.

yeah yeah, I'm aware

it falls closer in-line to a standard collectible obstacle, if anything

 

[LaserPrecision]

you're misinterpreting what I said

"if a guy has willed himself to remain unaffected by a similar teleportative BFR, then it wouldn't matter how large the range is if it's 3D and resisted in the end"

this was just an example that I gave, not implying that Spongebob is of a similar level

I agreed with ya



it was an example I gave, borther

calm ya milkers



yeah yeah, I'm aware

it falls closer in-line to a standard collectible obstacle, if anything

Ah, so we're in agreement then. That said, I wasn't freaking out at you just to be clear. I was just under the impression you disagreed with me because I wasn't structuring my points well enough. So I tried to go more in-depth with my explanations. If I'm frustrated in a debate, I'd admit to it outright to avoid confusion and escalation.

With that cleared up, Sonic would open up with a boost. Land innumerable strikes, realize his attacks don't work, then BFR Spongebob into a different dimension across the multiverse. Or seal him with Magic Hands if it comes to that I suppose.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Ah, so we're in agreement then. That said, I wasn't freaking out at you just to be clear. I was just under the impression you disagreed with me because I wasn't structuring my points well enough. So I tried to go more in-depth with my explanations. If I'm frustrated in a debate, I'd admit to it outright to avoid confusion and escalation.

nah, you good

With that cleared up, Sonic would open up with a boost. Land innumerable strikes, realize his attacks don't work, then BFR Spongebob into a different dimension across the multiverse. Or seal him with Magic Hands if it comes to that I suppose.

hold your horses, pal. it ain't that simple

let the others get their fair share

 

[LaserPrecision]

nah, you good



hold your horses, pal. it ain't that simple

let the others get their fair share

Oh of course. I abstained from voting for a reason after all. Wanna give them a chance. That said, they've been FRA training this match so far with no Sonic fans being able to defend him until now. So I don't think it would've hurt to leave. A vote considering the 5-0 vote count as of right now.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Oh of course. I abstained from voting for a reason after all. Wanna give them a chance. That said, they've been FRA training this match so far with no Sonic fans being able to defend him until now. So I don't think it would've hurt to leave. A vote considering the 5-0 vote count as of right now.

Gilad was here earlier in the thread, then stopped responding, but agreed

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

As I said, the luck manipulation argument is very inconsistent because it works in very inconsistent ways throughout the episode, and thus one cannot assume how it'd turn out without further context. It'd give Spongebob good luck and probably will help him avoid Sonic's attack, but we can't really assume more than that

As for the BFR and sealing, agree for Laser's reasons

 

[ShakeResounding]

So what I've gathered from re-reading the thread. Don't mind if I oversimplify.

- Sonic's wincons are Chaos Control, specifically the Sealing & BFR application of it. Additionally, the Time Stop aspect is layered and Spongebob can't resist it.

- Spongebob's wincons largely stem from his luck/probability, because Sonic resists a lot of the rest.

Saw some things looked over, though. With Optional Equipment, Sonic has access to his Soul Gauge and is granted both Resurrection (with Soul Resurrection) and Immortality Type 3 (With Caliburn, which substitutes Soil Energy for health when Sonic's Ring Count is at 0). This is ignoring the fact that Sonic will be gathering this Soul Energy simply through running, meaning Sonic is effectively psuedo-immortal in this fight. Couple this with 4x greater reaction speed, Danger Sense, and his in-character 346x speed amps, and Sonic is essentially untouchable.

It doesn't matter how much Spongebob toys with probability or how lucky he is, it's not good for anything if your opponent is able to keep coming back simply because he's gathering energy from what he does best (running). And since Sonic won't be able to permanently kill him, it's essentially only a matter of time before Sonic goes for one of his wincons.

I was also holding back my vote, but I'll be voting for Sonic for mine and Laser's reasons.

 

[Omegabronic]

i will vote for sonic by shake's reasoning

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic FRA

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sonic FRA. I also held out my vote waiting for Spongebob fans but since they voted, I'll vote too

 

[JJSliderman]

I forget the justification for CC BFR range being 2-A, is it because it BFR’d beyond the scope of Solaris, or because it restored all the damage Time Eater did? If it’s the former I think time probably still has to exist for Solaris being across all of time to be worth anything.

 

[Omegabronic]

I forget the justification for CC BFR range being 2-A, is it because it BFR’d beyond the scope of Solaris

yes, no idea why "time existing or not" matters for anything at all

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

To further justify SpongeBob here, he also has the Magic Book and the string.

It's a matter of time before either go for both, another can take SpongeBob's place in case BFR hits, and it's also very hard to kill him.

Changing my vote to inconclusive, I see this going either way.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

To further justify SpongeBob here, he also has the Magic Book and the string.

It's a matter of time before either go for both, another can take SpongeBob's place in case BFR hits, and it's also very hard to kill him.

Changing my vote to inconclusive, I see this going either way.

By the time Spongebob will try to use any of these (he needs to write in the book to do anything with it, and he doesn't go for instant kill haxes in character with the book, since when he had the opportunity to use the book to defeat Burger Beard he gave everyone superhero forms), and the string would require to be used, not to mention Sonic resists this kind of erasure anyways

By the time he'd think to use them, especially since even if he has them these are usually not his first move, Sonic would've blitzed him hundreds of times over and could intercept Spongebob before the latter would even react. Like it cannot be understated how fast he'd become compared to Spongebob

Also, the book doesn't have 2-A range so once Spongebob is BFR-ed he basically can't do anything or come back

 

[JJSliderman]

yes, no idea why "time existing or not" matters for anything at all

Because Solaris wouldn’t have crossed the whole multiverse yet.

 

[Omegabronic]

Because Solaris wouldn’t have crossed the whole multiverse yet.

.........?

 

[JJSliderman]

His whole thing was that he was going to eventually destroy all of time, but clearly he hasn’t done it fully before he was defeated.

 

[Omegabronic]

His whole thing was that he was going to eventually destroy all of time, but clearly he hasn’t done it fully before he was defeated.

And that relates to him destroying all the othet space times/timelines how.....?

 

[JJSliderman]

Because he clearly didn’t destroy all the timelines fully, if time as a construct still existed.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

By the time Spongebob will try to use any of these (he needs to write in the book to do anything with it, and he doesn't go for instant kill haxes in character with the book, since when he had the opportunity to use the book to defeat Burger Beard he gave everyone superhero forms), and the string would require to be used, not to mention Sonic resists this kind of erasure anyways

By the time he'd think to use them, especially since even if he has them these are usually not his first move, Sonic would've blitzed him hundreds of times over and could intercept Spongebob before the latter would even react. Like it cannot be understated how fast he'd become compared to Spongebob

Also, the book doesn't have 2-A range so once Spongebob is BFR-ed he basically can't do anything or come back

Then isn't this a stomp? What I'm getting is Sonic has 2-A haxes-

 

[JJSliderman]

The argument for 2-A BFR is just Blaze BFRing herself to a place Solaris couldn’t reach with his abilities, but I think it’s more feasible Solaris just didn’t destroy the whole multiverse yet.

 

[Omegabronic]

Because he clearly didn’t destroy all the timelines fully, if time as a construct still existed.

.......Where was the solaris fight?

 

[Omegabronic]

The argument for 2-A BFR is just Blaze BFRing herself to a place Solaris couldn’t reach with his abilities, but I think it’s more feasible Solaris just didn’t destroy the whole multiverse yet.

Thr encyclopedia disagrees with you, he did

 

[JJSliderman]

The encyclopedia almost always refers to Solaris’s destruction on a Uni scale or says he “threatens” to destroy all of spacetime, meaning he hadn’t done it yet.

 

[Gohan?_You're_still_alive?]

Also, the book doesn't have 2-A range so once Spongebob is BFR-ed he basically can't do anything or come back

I mean for like, anymore SpongeBob's being pulled in, can't he make more of him?

His luck prolly won't do much too, I get that, Sonic's been in worse situations iirc

But who's to say he can't distract Sonic with more SpongeBob's whilst finding the proper gap to use the book?

Both arguments present good evidence, thus, I vote incon.

 

[Omegabronic]

The encyclopedia almost always refers to Solaris’s destruction on a Uni scale

No...?

or says he “threatens” to destroy all of spacetime, meaning he hadn’t done it yet.

It is said that he did it as they were passing through the final stage

 

[JJSliderman]

“Threatening to end all of time”

“From the corners of the shattered spacetime” (likely referring to the pocket intersection here)

“as Solaris destroys all of spacetime” (present tense, meaning it wasn’t done yet and the final stage was acting concurrently)