Existence Erasure

[Antvasima]

I am extremely tired and distracted due to overwork. Can somebody please summarise what you have agreed about, and how this should practically be applied?

 

[A_fan_of_a_fan]

venom makes sense.

i also agree with sera. it should be described in relation to the power its applied from. it makes sese considering how vague this specific power can in my opinion.

 

[Sera_EX]

I don't think anything's been fully agreed upon. Unfortunately I need to sleep, so whatever is ultimately decided I'll leave to Reppuzan and DontTalk.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Conflicting_Messiah]

If you, erased someone from the plot that's exactly what you did. Erased someone from the plot.

You're excluding the fact the most plot manipulators control the story's entire setting. Therefore erasing their victim from the story will simultaneously erase their existence.

Causality Manipulation? Well, as with going back in time and stopping mommy and daddy from getting together thus erasing the existence of their child is not existence erasure, so would be preventing the cause so the effect never happened.

What you're describing is Time Travel. But causality manipulation can lead to your existence being erased.

Cause: Character says disappear.

Effect: Target gets erased from existence.

Concept Manipulation does not grant existence erasure. That's called Conceptual Erasure (there's a difference).

It's Conceptual Destruction actually. And simply destroying the concept of an individual will erase them.

Would that be the case, Existence Erasure with that broad definition is an application of almost every power that could be consideted "hax" (space, time, causality manipulation etc. Even darkness manipulation). Either we keep Existence Erasure with a strict definition or we replace it with Destruction because what is being proposed for Existence Erasure is exactly why Destruction had a page to begin with.

Well the destruction page was more simplistic. And Durability Negation is also applicable for an good amount of abilities that are considered hax. So I don't see the existence erasure page suffering the same fate as destruction.

 

[VenomElite]

If someone created a time paradox to erase someone's existence that's time manipulation. If someone erased another's existence by removing them from the plot, it's plot manipulation. It's not a separate power. Therefore, "Existence Erasure", as in completely erasing something into nothingness is a sub power of Void Manipulation.

 

[Conflicting_Messiah]

I think you're taking the "into nothingness" part of existence erasure's definition to serious. "Erasing something into nothingness" is less complicated than stating "destroying your opponent completely without leaving any physical or even metaphysical traces". But I will admit that the latter sounds more logical.

And the upper section of your comment proves my point. If you believe that time and plot manipulation can erase targets. While do you also believe that only void manipulation can erase things from existence? That's a somewhat conflicting ideology.

 

[VenomElite]

I'm not taking anything too serious. I just don't see why existence erasure can't be explained in relation to the ability which produced it's existence erasing effect.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Ventus and Sera fully.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I also am in agreement with Ven and Sera.

 

[Conflicting_Messiah]

Well I thought that making an existence erasure page would be a more convenient route. But if that's unnecessary, then I suppose just linking character's method of erasure to the appropriate abilities would suffice.

 

[DontTalk]

Abilities can describe both an effect or a mechanism and generally both can be listed on profiles.

If you are using Plot Manipulation to create fire, you have Plot Manipulation (as mechanism) and Fire Manipulation as an ability you get through it.

Magic is an example for an ability only given as mechanism and durablity negation of an ability only given as application of another ability.

All in all Plot Manipulation used for Existence Erasure (/turning the target to nothing) qualifies a character to also have Existence erasure.


If you have existence erasure you have a part of void manipulation, but per default only this one small part.

Just as if you create fire through reality warping you have fire creation, as a small subpower of fire manipulation, even though the mechanism might be different form fire manipulation done through magic.


One could simply link existence erasure as the part of the ability its mechanism comes from (and I do so at times if I know the mechanism), but in that case we are left with those cases in which the mechanism isn't explained. Restricting it to say "the ability to erase targets from existence, but without the mechanism being explained" would be pretty strange, if the other characters can archieve the same result just with different mechanism.

So all in all my opinion is that it should be fine to list existence erasure even if the mechanism comes from some other ability (like is currently done on a ton of profiles) and that it is fine to keep it as subpower of void manipulation (though I am not strongly opposed to making a seperate page for the subpower either).

 

[VenomElite]

If you think so, it's fine with me.

 

[DontTalk]

OK, so to come to an agreement:

I think, while generally there are opinons that existance erasure can stay as part of void manipulation, nobody is strictly against it getting a seperate page.

In that case how about the Existence Erasure page getting a definition matching the existence erasure term currently at the void manipulation page and generally profiles don't needing to be relinked from the void manipulation page to the existence erasure page, since the latter is also specific in what the character can do.


Is everyone in agreement with that course of action?

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with that suggestion, but it also depends on what VenomElite, Matthew, Sera, and Dragonmasterxyz think.

 

[Conflicting_Messiah]

Well it has been over 4 days and unfortunately we haven't unanimously agreed upon any suggestions.

I'm personally still against all forms of existence erasure being considered a mechanism/sub-power of void manipulation. But every method of erasure could be explained through it's appropriate onslaught. And because the Existence Erasure page already exists. Perhaps it would be best to simply link all of the variations of attacks and abilities that can destroy one's existence.

Ex. As someone mentioned above, time travelling to the past and turning your opponent into a time paradox would erase them. But absolutely nothing regarding that tactic mentions controlling voids.

 

[VenomElite]

I'm not going back to this. DontTalk's suggestion is okay with me for my lack of wanting to continue this any further.

 

[VenomElite]

I solely speak from experience dealing with this stuff, but if everyone else thinks otherwise fine. Do it, can't keep arguing, it gets very tiresome really fast.

 

[Antvasima]

@VenomElite Okay, so is there anything else that needs to be done here, beyond redirecting the few Destruction page links to the Existence Erasure page instead?