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- Thread starter
- #41
Pretty sure his magic and his physical prowess are portrayed to be very separate.
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Etrigan upgrade.
- Thread starter Da_Lunge_Fish
- Start date
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Can you prove that? Because using magic doesn't mean all your attacks and your physiology is magic
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And surely being stabbed repeatedly had nothing to do with that.
He starts to choke her out, but she's still resisting and he transforms right after. For all we know she could have broke the hold right after.
It's certainly not enough to scale him to her absolute peak.
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- Thread starter
- #44
Does Wonder Woman even have a plethora of "holding back" statements that suddenly make choking her not enough for scaling?
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No, she just sucks super hard like Martian Manhunter and Silver Surfer.
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- Thread starter
- #47
well, go remove that 4-B rating from her then
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I like how Qawsedf ignored other arguments because he couldn't refute them
She does have them, and Martian Manhunter usually is portrayed as being almost Superman tier
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I suggest we pause this CRT until someone figures out Lobo scaling, its best to be patient
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Nothing for now. If anyone want to revise Lobo, they should do that first. The rest aren't usable.
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What dk you mean? I answer all of his arguments? If you meant the Superman one about the hellfire not damaging him then that's still a esoteric attack working on him and Etrigan is still a magical being that Superman is less resistant to.
Punching Superman hard and fighting an Pre-Imperiex War Superman also isn't heavily indicative that Etrigan scales to 4-B, since it's explicitly noted Superman always held back and never went all out barring his fight with Doomsday.
They're both still heavy jobbers. MMH has statements saying in his Superman's weight class but plenty of other low showings that suggest Supermwn is physically much stronger. Scaling them can just be inconsistent.
Either keep him as is, work out Lobo or give him a 4-B key with a justification fighting a mind controlled Superman and maybe strangling Diana
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Actually, there are multiple statements that come from Superman himself suggesting that MM is outright stronger than Supes, but this isn't the main topic. This is about Etrigan scaling. Using other characters and discussing those scalings should be reserved for other threads as Confluctor said.
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Well, Lobo definitely works best with a variable tier, as I see it.
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Superman's 4-B feats come from him holding back too
Etrigan's punches aren't magical unless you have scans. And what is a "magical being"? How does that make all punches magic?
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Do we have sources for the scans?
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Any confirmation that this is the case? Like scans?
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- Thread starter
- #59
I think I do. I'll get them later today though
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If he holds back all the time then he's obviously holding back even when doing those 4-B feats
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not really. The 4B feats are done at his peak power
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Evidence?
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A few statements don't matter much in the face of dozens of contradicting feats. Hover over each link for the source.
- Doomsday says MMH is no Superman
- Early DoS DD one-shots MMH yet Supes tanks a hit from him and after getting stronger they stalemate
- Breach one-shots MMH yet Supes tanks attacks from from him a few issues later
- Preus has the power of Superman and one-shots MMH despite his attempt to phase
- Nearly kills MMH with HV
- Zod pummels MMH and he is knocked out
- MMH fails to restrain Superman and is frozen by him
- Superman Robot pushes MMH back while in the same arc Supes tears dozens apart while weakened
- Titus no-sells Martian Vision while in the same issue Heat Vision hurts him
- Imperiex Probe downs MMH and causes him a lost eye while Supes mows through probes
- MMH and Hawkman fail to budge Fire-Eye while one page later Supes throws him into the gateway
- Asmodel no-sells MMH while Superman Blue matches him despite being physically weaker than before
- Bizarro no-sells punch from MMH
- Weird one-shots MMH while Supes no-sells a punch from him
- Macrolatts choose to possesses Superman over MMH because he was more powerful
- Superman fights in a Kryptonite radiation zone that MMH and WW need to wait an hour before entering
- Superman tanks blasts from MMH+Booster+Green Fury
- Superman is the only force on earth capable of restraining WW despite MMH being in the room
- MMH and WW try to restrain Supes and he shrugs them off
- MMH and many other heroes fail to restrain Supes
- Antaeus is equal to Supes and when WW and MMH try to restrain him he flexes them off
- Supergirl chokes MMH with one hand
- Superboy beats up MMH
- MMH and Superman attend GA/Canary's wedding and Supes was explicitly one of the six most powerful people there while MMH wasn't
- MMH proposes to assemble a team whose combined strength could match Supes' old strength and it includes himself, Kyle, and Supergirl
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Thats irrelevant here now, were talking about lobo and etrigan
Those also don't prove MMh doesnt scale to superman, just that Superman is stronger
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What does this have to do with the comment chain? Guy said there were several statements putting MMH above Superman, and I said the few that there are have been contradicted by dozens of feats. Nowhere did I say anything about MMH's scaling to Superman or anything of the sort.
I'm not the one who started this conversation about MMH compared to Superman, go hop on that guy.
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- #67
Actually, 4-B doesn't even come from Superman. It comes from Wally. And Eobard survived it while standing still
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- #69
That... is not a white dwarf. A white dwarf actually weighs about as much an average star, it's just very small and condensed. A real white dwarf star is about planet sized. This one is smaller than a human headHow would White Dwarf Stars being as low as 100 tons in DC change that?
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I'll look up the relevant feats of Etrigan to verify any scaling chains.
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It is, since Superman calls it one; it just doesn't fit with IRL notions for star minimums.
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He has the feat of pushing a Sun in the calc page actually.
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I thought that was removed for an incorrect assumption about the star's mass.
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It was removed
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It's still there though.
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the feat was calced at High 4C not 4B
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Alright, gotcha.
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"I'm holding a White Dwarf star in my hands"
Just goes to show how White Dwarfs in DC can be smaller than IRL ones.
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- 3,254
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- #79
It must be an exceptionally small one then.
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There are a couple 4-B feats; in which most of them came from various Green Lanterns and are baselinish. Though the best one comes from Wally; Superman also used to have a few more before some of them got recalculated to 4-C. Not to mention, when Post-Crisis Superman does the same 4-B attack Wally does, what happens to him is basically the same thing as Post-Flashpoint performing the Super Flare technique. And to be fair, even most of his 5-A feats are actually feats Superman struggled with to perform. So it's questionable if characters he holds back against are even 5-A let alone 4-B.
Anyway, the focus is on Etrigan given the title of the thread an OP. So might as well gather some Etrigan fight scenes and/or his own feats if he has any.
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