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But didn't you once state that existing on a 1-A plane =/= 1-A.
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Eternity upgrade?
- Thread starter Embodiment_Of_Lies
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- eternity marvel comics
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Antvasima... I'm talking about people who legitimately scale to it directly , not characters who don't in any way have a possible method based on the comic they originate from to scale to it. Besides, they didn't affect Eternity's Realm at all during the battle, and existing within it like @Lies stated =/= 1-A ... That isn't enough.. You were the one to tell us that...
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No problem. It was a simple error.
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...C_Man-Thing_.2C_Strange_Tales_.2C_Daydreamers
The only implication I am having trouble with is the above link , and to explain it as much in a short post without being too much , here is to dumb it down a lot : Eternity's Realm firstly took place in a Strange Tales Comic , stated to be his realm where it is timeless, and then in 2005 states it's 1-A nature... Which I have no problem with.
However, in Strange Tales, Cleito is connected to all places and things within the Strange Tales comic [ Every level of reality and creation , also would include Eternity's Outerversal Realm because it was mentioned in Strange Tales and the entirety of this comic takes place then , True Atlantis states it was time before time existed, the Void before the World of Forms , etc ] , and even Dr.Strange stated in said comic that the end of the Nexus of All Realities would be the End of All Things [ Which was caused by Franklin's Counter-Earth fiasco, which caused the Nexus to shatter , and Ted/Formerly Man-Thing forgetting about his Dream Powers, causing the eventual end of everything sooner than before , including Eternity's Realm due to it being mentioned in Strange Tales Vol 1 Issue 146 ] .
This canonically takes place after Heroes Reborn, and a bit before then Man-Thing became Ka'dmon during the Strange Tales storyline , who is ludicrously stronger than Cleito and comparable to the Creator, whose mere subconsciousness is also one with all of Strange Tales.
Even a fragment of the Nexus of All Realities allowed a human to be capable of oneshotting Job Burke according to DeMetteis' script on issues III and IV of Strange Tales, who powerwise is directly stated as beyond the comprehension of Termineus and Ka'dmon, both of who can comprehend the Creator .
Scrier w/o the Nexus fragments oneshotted Ka'dmon without any difficulty, in his base state. Even in base state, even with all the Fallen Stars amping him [ including Cleito ] , he stated he was no match for him. He then had to fuse with Ted, who kept his dreaming powers within the Nexus to take him on.
Daydreamers tackles the fact that the Man-Thing cannot handle Franklin's subconsciously, ludicrously casual manipulation of the Nexus within him when he can handle the combined might of all the Fallen Stars + Ted's Daydreamign powers [ All which are High 1-B to 1-A ] , being one with the entire Nexus and storing it within himself . He also shows fear towards Asheema being a Celestial, regardless of taking on the energies of Scrier w/ the full Nexus, Termineus [ who scales far above Cleito who is either High 1-B or 1-A ] , Ka'dmon [ Whose casually superior to Termineus ] , and wielding the Creator's powers [ Who is also either High 1-B or 1-A ]
Franklin also shattering the full Strange Tales Nexus means he's incomprehensibly superior to Ka'dmon and Scrier utilizing the full Nexus during those arcs, who even a fragment allowed a regular human to oneshot someone beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon , who scales to casual High 1-B's/1-A's.
And yes, this all takes place before Man-Thing was being represented as a abstract . Him being a abstract means Ka'dmon's strength [ As he is currently the Man-Thing ] is comparable to Eternity's . That would make Eternity upgradable . That is it. I'll provide scans whenever you want them .
The only implication I am having trouble with is the above link , and to explain it as much in a short post without being too much , here is to dumb it down a lot : Eternity's Realm firstly took place in a Strange Tales Comic , stated to be his realm where it is timeless, and then in 2005 states it's 1-A nature... Which I have no problem with.
However, in Strange Tales, Cleito is connected to all places and things within the Strange Tales comic [ Every level of reality and creation , also would include Eternity's Outerversal Realm because it was mentioned in Strange Tales and the entirety of this comic takes place then , True Atlantis states it was time before time existed, the Void before the World of Forms , etc ] , and even Dr.Strange stated in said comic that the end of the Nexus of All Realities would be the End of All Things [ Which was caused by Franklin's Counter-Earth fiasco, which caused the Nexus to shatter , and Ted/Formerly Man-Thing forgetting about his Dream Powers, causing the eventual end of everything sooner than before , including Eternity's Realm due to it being mentioned in Strange Tales Vol 1 Issue 146 ] .
This canonically takes place after Heroes Reborn, and a bit before then Man-Thing became Ka'dmon during the Strange Tales storyline , who is ludicrously stronger than Cleito and comparable to the Creator, whose mere subconsciousness is also one with all of Strange Tales.
Even a fragment of the Nexus of All Realities allowed a human to be capable of oneshotting Job Burke according to DeMetteis' script on issues III and IV of Strange Tales, who powerwise is directly stated as beyond the comprehension of Termineus and Ka'dmon, both of who can comprehend the Creator .
Scrier w/o the Nexus fragments oneshotted Ka'dmon without any difficulty, in his base state. Even in base state, even with all the Fallen Stars amping him [ including Cleito ] , he stated he was no match for him. He then had to fuse with Ted, who kept his dreaming powers within the Nexus to take him on.
Daydreamers tackles the fact that the Man-Thing cannot handle Franklin's subconsciously, ludicrously casual manipulation of the Nexus within him when he can handle the combined might of all the Fallen Stars + Ted's Daydreamign powers [ All which are High 1-B to 1-A ] , being one with the entire Nexus and storing it within himself . He also shows fear towards Asheema being a Celestial, regardless of taking on the energies of Scrier w/ the full Nexus, Termineus [ who scales far above Cleito who is either High 1-B or 1-A ] , Ka'dmon [ Whose casually superior to Termineus ] , and wielding the Creator's powers [ Who is also either High 1-B or 1-A ]
Franklin also shattering the full Strange Tales Nexus means he's incomprehensibly superior to Ka'dmon and Scrier utilizing the full Nexus during those arcs, who even a fragment allowed a regular human to oneshot someone beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon , who scales to casual High 1-B's/1-A's.
And yes, this all takes place before Man-Thing was being represented as a abstract . Him being a abstract means Ka'dmon's strength [ As he is currently the Man-Thing ] is comparable to Eternity's . That would make Eternity upgradable . That is it. I'll provide scans whenever you want them .
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@Seed
It is best if you simply link to scans with explicit unambiguous evidence without any personal interpretations whatsoever.
That said, I am generally too tired and overworked to deal with you, as is Matthew for that matter. Maybe Azathoth is willing to help?
In any case, you can both argue with me about upgrades forever if you wish, and nothing is still going to happen (besides me getting increasingly tired and stressed out) until Matthew has the time to deal with this.
It is best if you simply link to scans with explicit unambiguous evidence without any personal interpretations whatsoever.
That said, I am generally too tired and overworked to deal with you, as is Matthew for that matter. Maybe Azathoth is willing to help?
In any case, you can both argue with me about upgrades forever if you wish, and nothing is still going to happen (besides me getting increasingly tired and stressed out) until Matthew has the time to deal with this.
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I can just link stuff... Which was what I was planning on doing anyways . I was just paraphrasing what happened so people had a good idea of context before a sudden barrage of scans showed up out of nowhere with no context . And no even if I wanted to, paraphrasing something that specific would take a few paragraphs to do, regardless of neatness involved.
Does it seem possible based solely on what I said, if what I said was accurate ? And yes, eventually I'll contact Azzy to overlook this .
Does it seem possible based solely on what I said, if what I said was accurate ? And yes, eventually I'll contact Azzy to overlook this .
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@sandman funny thing there is a Maya in marvel iirc.
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Thank you Sandman.
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It's kind of weird when the Neutral Zone was once stated to be three-dimensional. It containing all the concepts is even contradictory to call it 1-A because it's non-Euclidean space, which isn't inherently beyond-dimensional, and it is the place where the "many-angled ones" reside.
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I don't remember the neutral zone containing concepts other then eldritch ones.
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> Sandman references both Maya and Brahman
> Remembers what tiers Maya and Brahman are in Hindiusm [1-A]
> Then remembers the thread that allowed Sandman to upgrade them to 1-A
Jeez if that isn't a good sign I honestly don't know what is. I'm not trying to jump the gun... But it's hard not to.
> Remembers what tiers Maya and Brahman are in Hindiusm [1-A]
> Then remembers the thread that allowed Sandman to upgrade them to 1-A
Jeez if that isn't a good sign I honestly don't know what is. I'm not trying to jump the gun... But it's hard not to.
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@Ant, I don't think EoL was necessarily trying to argue Eternity is 1-A, by the way. Just "at least High 1-B".
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Okay. It is just that I am tired and overworked, along with being stressed out and distracted by ongoing real world disasters, so when I am forced to argue extensively it eventually starts to chip away at my patience, especially if it is an issue that I cannot do anything about. My apologies.
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Hindiusm ? After a bit of research It seems that J.M DeMetteis referenced it by usiing Shamballa, or the Lords of Shamballa in the graphic novel. We can use this to not only show that the Creator is suppose to be Brahman, but also the existence of Maya [ The comic to read yourself to see If i am making this up is here http://***************.to/Comic/Marvel-Graphic-Novel/Issue-23-Dr-Strange-Into-Shamballa?id=49873 ] :
So.... It seems that not only that J.M DeMetteis is well aware of Hindiusm , but it's also heavily implied that Hindiusm is the exact same in Marvel's Cosmology , implying some interesting changes. Brahman/God from Into Shamballa and the Creator from Strange Tales/Man-Thing in the mythos seems to be the same person. Maya also exists in Marvel as well. Interesting stuff...
So.... It seems that not only that J.M DeMetteis is well aware of Hindiusm , but it's also heavily implied that Hindiusm is the exact same in Marvel's Cosmology , implying some interesting changes. Brahman/God from Into Shamballa and the Creator from Strange Tales/Man-Thing in the mythos seems to be the same person. Maya also exists in Marvel as well. Interesting stuff...
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Bump.
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I'll ask them tomorrow on to look at it.
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@Sandman Uhmm.... I'm not 100% certain about that Sandy. The Creator isn't described as some unbeatable entity. In-fact, anyone above Ka'dmon would definitely scale to the Creator if he is indeed 1-A.
Ka'dmon was outright stated to rival the Creator in Peter Parker Annual 19, and in the exact comic stated anyone capable of beating Ka'dmon is a threat to the Creator. That sounds scalable.
Scrier was implied as far stronger than the Creator, due to oneshotting someone comparable to him [ Ka'dmon ] and stating that the entity known as Ka'dmon, it would only take a glare to kill any of the Fallen Stars, who embody everything in Strange Tales, including Eternity's Realm.
The small fragment of the Nexus allowed a mere 10-C to be amped enough to effortlessly oneshot something beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon , who has comparable power and consciousness to the Creator .
If we allow the Fallen Stars to scale to Eternity's Realm [ Which they should because even Cleito , thr weakest Fallen Star , is one with every realm, dimension , reality mentioned in Strange Tales, and they said realm falls under that umbrella ] . it would allow scaling to 1-A I believe.
Not trying to be adamant... But in general I don't see this being unscalable.
Ka'dmon was outright stated to rival the Creator in Peter Parker Annual 19, and in the exact comic stated anyone capable of beating Ka'dmon is a threat to the Creator. That sounds scalable.
Scrier was implied as far stronger than the Creator, due to oneshotting someone comparable to him [ Ka'dmon ] and stating that the entity known as Ka'dmon, it would only take a glare to kill any of the Fallen Stars, who embody everything in Strange Tales, including Eternity's Realm.
The small fragment of the Nexus allowed a mere 10-C to be amped enough to effortlessly oneshot something beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon , who has comparable power and consciousness to the Creator .
If we allow the Fallen Stars to scale to Eternity's Realm [ Which they should because even Cleito , thr weakest Fallen Star , is one with every realm, dimension , reality mentioned in Strange Tales, and they said realm falls under that umbrella ] . it would allow scaling to 1-A I believe.
Not trying to be adamant... But in general I don't see this being unscalable.
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Galactus stated he isn't limited to dimensions.... Sorry for the bad joke.
But In all honesty... The one that was in Man-Thing Annual 1999 was a "Full Power" Scrier. They explained in that comic that it was the first time he ever fully manifested into reality, heavily implying he usually isn't capable of doing that. He usually has Aspects in reality in his stead, as explained in that comic. So, the one from Chaos War wasn't "Fully Powered" Scrier, only a aspect .
Plus, even going by that, Scrier would still be High 1-B via Oblivion's statement comparing the destruction to Chaos War's, which is blatantly High 1-B to such a degree I don't really need to make mention to it now.
But In all honesty... The one that was in Man-Thing Annual 1999 was a "Full Power" Scrier. They explained in that comic that it was the first time he ever fully manifested into reality, heavily implying he usually isn't capable of doing that. He usually has Aspects in reality in his stead, as explained in that comic. So, the one from Chaos War wasn't "Fully Powered" Scrier, only a aspect .
Plus, even going by that, Scrier would still be High 1-B via Oblivion's statement comparing the destruction to Chaos War's, which is blatantly High 1-B to such a degree I don't really need to make mention to it now.
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Firstly, it was explained that the 'Real' Scrier didn't show up any time... Sans this time. It doesn't imply that he has aspects though:
Now let's go into the scaling aspect ( Also... Before someone says " It's only 2-A " . They've already established in Strange Tales that the Fallen Stars scale to Every Realm of Reality and Creation , as well as being connected to a 1-A realm and having a few other 1-A feats within the Strange Tales Comic {Including a realm beyond the Archetypal Infinity is still within one of the Universes} , which Peter Parker Annual 1999 is meant to be in the same Cosmology, which is a canon comic as well as the Strange Tales/Man-Thing Comics that brought the Fallen Stars )
Scrier was completely unconcerned with Ka'dmon's base, as shown with the ability to oneshot him previously without any effort :
Remember it was blatantly obviously that Ka'dmon , the Father of the Dream, was compared to the Creator twice
And has the ludicrous ability to kill a amped version of Ka'dmon, who had energy of all the Fallen Stars with him as assistence, with a mere glare . Scrier also said he was before the Fallen Stars [ also before consciousness , which means he literally predates the creation of the Dream of the Creator, implying he is beyond the Dream ] .
Even with the above amp, plus Ellen, and the fact that he was now one with the Nexus himself, Scrier was confident he could still kill this ludicrously amped Ka'dmon/Man-Thing.
Remember Ka'dmon amped Spiderman, as the Servant of the Lineage, to fight Outrider, who was controlling/one with the Nexus at the time. Both of these two are absolute fodder to Scrier & Ka'dmon with the heavy amps .
A fragment of the Nexus allowed a human oneshot someone that was beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon, who is far above Cleito who scales to Eternity's Realm . That's how the scaling goes, and I'm only using Eternity's Realm for simplicity, not stuff predating the Creator's Dream [Which contains Eternity's Realm] , the Golden Age , a realm within one of the Universes is " time before the concept of time existed " , and a few other stuff . This was one of the most meta comics I've seen...
Now let's go into the scaling aspect ( Also... Before someone says " It's only 2-A " . They've already established in Strange Tales that the Fallen Stars scale to Every Realm of Reality and Creation , as well as being connected to a 1-A realm and having a few other 1-A feats within the Strange Tales Comic {Including a realm beyond the Archetypal Infinity is still within one of the Universes} , which Peter Parker Annual 1999 is meant to be in the same Cosmology, which is a canon comic as well as the Strange Tales/Man-Thing Comics that brought the Fallen Stars )
Scrier was completely unconcerned with Ka'dmon's base, as shown with the ability to oneshot him previously without any effort :
Remember it was blatantly obviously that Ka'dmon , the Father of the Dream, was compared to the Creator twice
And has the ludicrous ability to kill a amped version of Ka'dmon, who had energy of all the Fallen Stars with him as assistence, with a mere glare . Scrier also said he was before the Fallen Stars [ also before consciousness , which means he literally predates the creation of the Dream of the Creator, implying he is beyond the Dream ] .
Even with the above amp, plus Ellen, and the fact that he was now one with the Nexus himself, Scrier was confident he could still kill this ludicrously amped Ka'dmon/Man-Thing.
Remember Ka'dmon amped Spiderman, as the Servant of the Lineage, to fight Outrider, who was controlling/one with the Nexus at the time. Both of these two are absolute fodder to Scrier & Ka'dmon with the heavy amps .
A fragment of the Nexus allowed a human oneshot someone that was beyond the comprehension of Ka'dmon, who is far above Cleito who scales to Eternity's Realm . That's how the scaling goes, and I'm only using Eternity's Realm for simplicity, not stuff predating the Creator's Dream [Which contains Eternity's Realm] , the Golden Age , a realm within one of the Universes is " time before the concept of time existed " , and a few other stuff . This was one of the most meta comics I've seen...
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Bump.
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Personally I feel etermity deserves a 3rd key for "True Eternity". Multi-eternity is his avatar within himself plus certain parts of true eternity are just obviously beyond what the multi-avatar has shown. Changing my mind on upgrading his multi form and feel like oblivion, eternity and infinity should have "true" keys for their forms which survive in the outside, which is beyond the neutral zone, not to mention his heart. Instead of labeling multi-eternity who is within his true self as equals(thus upgrading multi), seperation between the inside avatar and the one who dwells in the outsides seems better imo.
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I mean his real self is a giant living on the outside. Multi-form well known throughput the franchise does seem more like just an in body manifestation. But I guess cant assume unless the giant eternity isn't referred to as multi-eternity when mentioned...
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Actually ant I change my stance. I do believe eternity, even his multi-form is still but an avatar.Antvasima said:
Eternity true self.
Galactus directly says eternity can only truly be seen from the outside. Which means all eternity and multieternities shown throughout the franchise were just his inbody avatars.
Which can also debunk some things "killing" multi-eternity since that was an avatar but that's a subject for another day.
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I think I might agree with Otaku.
@Ant what do you think? you still disagree with the upgrade?
@Ant what do you think? you still disagree with the upgrade?
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If you want you can lock this thread.
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