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Eternatus revision

XXKINGXX69

XXKINGXX69

5,879
1,068
We got a problem in the Eternatus profile. It says he scales above Mustard's Urshifu because Leon stated it was "the most powerful Pokemon in the Galar region"
He doesn't say "in the Galar region". Just most powerful Pokemon. Occam's razor says most powerful pokemon he knows of, its not like Leon randomly thinks Pokemon from other regions don't exist or forgot about them. Its kinda cherry picking to assume he is only talking about Galar Pokemon. If this statement is true, it would make Eternatus like 5-B to tier 2 since everyone knows of the Weather Trio, Arceus, the creation trio and what they do. Leon also knows about how strong other trainers are in other regions, as shown in Pokemon Masters. We obviously are not going to scale Eternatus to 2-B, so Leon's statement isn't very reliable unless you agree with 2-B Leon. However, this is not the only evidence. Note: I am not trying to say we should upgrade Eternatus to 2-B at all. Stop misreading my sentences

Eternatus' profile states "(Leon stated that it is the strongest Pokémon in the Galar Region, making it much stronger than Mustard's team, including Gigantamax Urshifu.")
Mustard didn't even have Urshifu at the time of this statement. He was still training his Kubfu. Unless you think Leon has clairvoyance and precognition to somehow realise how strong his Urshifu would be, assuming that Leon thinks its stronger than Urshifu is really bad. He doesn't even know about Urshifu's existence

You thought those were the only arguments? There's more. Mustard stated that Urshifu was sure to be unyielding armour that will shatter any blade turned against it. He was sure of it, so he wasn't trying to exaggerate. This obviously refers to Zacian, no explanation needed. Not even Eternamax Eternatus can shatter Zacians blade just by taking a hit from Zacian, in fact Zacian and Zamazenta combined can defeat Eternatus after damaging it

This would apply to Zacian and Zamazenta too. Maybe use Zacian splitting the ocean in half or some other calc or feat. Or small country level it is

Agree with not using Leon's Statement: Arceus0x, Greenshifter, Everything12
 
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Just scale Eternatus to 2-A jeez, how much statements and feats does a guy need to have before he scales to the Creation Trio or Arceus?
 
Greenshifter said:
Just scale Eternatus to 2-A jeez, how much statements and feats does a guy need to have before he scales to the Creation Trio or Arceus?
Click to expand...
Funny how Cresselia is Tier 2 because it has "no anti feats" to put it below creation trio but if I brought up how some other legendaries don't as well....
 
tbh i believe that neither Darkrai nor Cresselia are 2-B/2-A but are rather low 6-B, possibly 5-B, however this isn't the best time to be discussing it.
 
interestingly enough it is stated in the japanese version that the infinite power it emits actually distorts the Spacetime rather than the space and the time. In short it distorts the entire spacetime continuum rather than space and time
 
Low Multiversal likely Multiversal+ ( Leon is stated to be the world's strongest trainer and is stated to be Rank #1 in the Pokemon World Championships and the ultimate trainer . Defeated Lance even when he Gigantamaxed his Gyrados which was a battle to decide the strongest in the world . Leon defeated Raihan and is stated to be the strongest trainer in the Galar region . Who can become any region's champion should he choose to move . Ash implied he needed to defeat Leon to become the world's strongest Trainer with Leon defeating Ash's Pikachu in battle. Ash stated that he was too strong compared to himself, with Leon again stated that he and Charizard are the strongest with it being stated in a episode that he is the strongest of all . Leon is able to wore and fight Eternatus who is stated to be the most powerful Pokemon . Fights Soudo after he defeats and adds Eternatus to his party. Which should make him stronger than Rosa who can defeat Red and Sun who can also defeat Red who's Mega Charizard X can overwhelm Mewtwo. and Ash's Sceptile who can damage Deoxys. Deoxys can defeat and overwhelm Mewtwo . and is stated to be the strongest Pokemon associated with space and stars, having power of the universe itself . Deoxys can fight and damage Rayquaza who Zinnia implied could give her strength to protect all worlds beyond the starry sky Mewtwo is able to make multiple Pokeballs which all contain an infinite world . Should be surperior to Alain as as Alain admitted he cannot outdo Ash who's Mega Charizard X can clash with 50% Zygarde who is stronger than Mega Mewtwo X, a form which specializes in attacks . Leon should be stronger than Blake who has a trained Genesect who can tank attacks from , fight and damage Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y who can crush multiple pokeballs . Ash's Scpetile can one shot a trained Darkrai yet is weaker than Tobias's Latios which Ash's Pikachu can stalemate . Ash's Pikachu can fight Mecha-Giratina who is equal to Giratina . Ash's Pikachu with the combination of Latias, Latios, and Black Rayquaza is able to cancel out an attack from Unbound Hoopa, the Creation Trio, Primal Kyogre and Groudon, and Kyruem wtih Unbound Hoopa by itself being equal to Latios, Latias, and Black Rayquaza yet was weaker than Diantha's Gardevoir who can create universes and Diantha is stated to be the strongest trainer in Kalos which should make her stronger than Wulfric who also one shotted Pikachu. Darkrai is able to fight both Palkia and Dialga and tank attacks from them as well . Said attacks were gonna destroy the universe . Again stronger than Blake who can defeat Cynthia and stronger than Sun who can defeat Cynthia . Blake can also fight Tornadus who can fight the Unova Elite Four . Caitlin is able to stalemate Cynthia . Cynthia is able to damage Giratina and damage Palkia . Leon is stronger than Ethan who can one shot Pryce and defeat Lance's Dragonite who can with Giovanni's Ursaring can defeat the Creation Trio. Cynthia is stronger than Flint who is also somewhat comparable to Giratina . Leon is stronger than Lucas and Barry who can also fight Palkia and Dialga . Palkia and Dialga can create and destroy the universe . Dialga can rewind the universe to the big bang. Palkia stablizes all of space with it's breath and created all parallel dimensions . Palkia and Dialga can tear the very fabric of reality and reduce all that is to complete nothingness. Giratina is stated to be as powerful as Palkia and Dialga and is even stronger than them , can create the Distortion World and killing Giratina will make the Distortion World disappear . Giratina is the Distortion world itself . Giratina was distorting both the Distortion World and the main universe, which threatened to erase both from existence . The Distortion World also maintains the balance of space-time. There is mentions of several timelines and alternate universes based on alternate possibilities. There is the reflection cave, where there is as many worlds as there mirrors and each of those have their own Reflection Cave. Then there is the worlds that are able to be accessed by the ultra wormhole, which were used to grab villains from differing timelines . One has to travel across space and time to travel across different save files . Implying they are different universes . There has been 368 million copies of the game sold. There exists infinite universes and infinite possibilities which each world gives birth to more and more worlds, and so on. Leon should be stronger than Munna and Mushurna who can turn dream worlds into mist which are but another reality which are born in the Enterlink Zone . Leon should be stronger than Serena who can one shot a Mega Alakazam who can shift reality to merge two worlds. )
possibly Low Complex Multiversal
( Leon is able to defeat Ash's Gigantamax Pikachu Colress's description for why Z-Moves are so powerful is virtually the same for Magnolia's description for why Dynamaxing is powerful. Thus his Gigantamax form should be comparable to him using 10,000,000 Volts which is one with the power of Alola which is restored Ultra Necrozma when it lost all of it's power . Ash defeated Tapu Koko wielded by Professor Kukui who's power was said to be utterly unmatched despite people sensing Ultra Necrozma's power. Ash also overpowered Guardian of Alola which is the ultimate Z power, created by the people of Alola and Pokemon and thus should be superior to Light That Burns The Sky. Ultra Necrozma's strength exceeds the Legendary Pokemon which should include Palkia and Dialga and Arceus . Ash's Pikachu is able to defeat Gladion's trained Sivally who's power rivals those of pokemon often spoken in myth which should include Arceus. As the strongest trainer in the world, should be superior to Ethan who can fight and overpower Arceus . Should be stronger than Brendan who has a trained Mega Rayquaza who is powered by the bonds of humankind. Giratina couldn't make the world disappear because of the bonds shared between Pokemon and their trainers human thoughts are beyond space and time and overcome the laws of space and time which often refer to Palkia and Dialga and Palkia embodies space and Dialga being to time what Palkia is to space. Arceus created all of existence and Dialga and Palkia. Semi-plated Arceus is able to devastate all of existence which should include Ultra-Space which is stated to be Ultra-dimensional and there existing countless Ultra-spaces )

Arceus0x said:
Or is this just overall sarcasm?
Click to expand...
What do you think? Ignore the tiers, and this is without including Eternatus literally being the source of power that Dynamaxes all Pokémon. This also isn't my page.
 
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Extending Leon's statement to every Pokémon in existence is quite the long reach tbh, and a very fleeble reason to scale Eternatus to such a high tier.

Mustard's statement also isn't great either, it's not even implied that he's talking about Zacian just because he mentions a sword.
 
I do think Leon has precog and clairvoyance, only way he could be a better trainer than Cynthia. Like have you played BDSP? She’s literally insane
 
SamanPatou said:
Extending Leon's statement to every Pokémon in existence is quite the long reach tbh, and a very fleeble reason to scale Eternatus to such a high tier.

Mustard's statement also isn't great either, it's not even implied that he's talking about Zacian just because he mentions a sword.
Click to expand...
Not really, guy's number 1 in the world, you have every reason to take his word seriously. Exceptions would be like alien Pokémon or Pokémon that went completely off the radar.
 
Greenshifter said:
Yes
Click to expand...
just reply then. And what is badly structured about my argument?

Eternatus in the japanese entry can distort the spacetime continuum and can emit infinite energy overtime which is supported by the fact that the verb is in a progressive tense.
 
I always assumed that it was infinite energy, as in it kept producing energy with no end, and not infinite energy as in it just has an infinite supply of energy.

The Creselia one isn't just no anti-feats. It's that it has no Anti-feats, it's counterparts it's consistently shown as equal to has feats of engaging in combat with the Space-Time Duo for a period of time and has a Tier 2 feat of it's own.

Meanwhile, Eternatus has few to no feats of it's own. With it's current Tier being only through scaling and statements, vague ones at that. Plus, though the Creation and Weather Trio are known to the populous, it is only to the extent of legends and hearsay for the general public. With only people who actively researching them knowing the true extent of their abilities, and even then few of those people have actually witnessed their power. Leon and Mustard haven't shown any evidence to be part of these groups.
 
btw something i noticed in the scale spiel above, Necrozma being stronger than legendaries met so far statement can easily be debunked as it is stated to the protagonist of S&M who's not met anyone stronger than solgaleo at the time
 
Everything12 said:
it's consistently shown as equal to has feats of engaging in combat with the Space-Time Duo for a period of time
Click to expand...
Darkrai in the movie very clearly didn't have much of an impact at all against the duo, and subsequently got destroyed. It's just salt in the wound when you consider that Darkrai was more or less getting in the way when the two were just trying to fight each other.

Sure you could say they could block a few attacks of theirs, but actually getting hit by them either KO'd Darkrai or actually killed them, at least in this interaction which is what I'm familiar with.
 
Well I was more explaining the Wiki's logic for the rating and how it's not just simple "lack of anti-feats". Personally, I'm iffy on the ratings myself.
 
Arceus0x said:
btw something i noticed in the scale spiel above, Necrozma being stronger than legendaries met so far statement can easily be debunked as it is stated to the protagonist of S&M who's not met anyone stronger than solgaleo at the time
Click to expand...
Its not even stated to the protagonist
 
SamanPatou said:
Extending Leon's statement to every Pokémon in existence is quite the long reach tbh, and a very fleeble reason to scale Eternatus to such a high tier.

Mustard's statement also isn't great either, it's not even implied that he's talking about Zacian just because he mentions a sword.
Click to expand...
At no point did I say we should upgrade Eternatus. I'm saying the statement can't be used.

I think you didn't read my arguments or the scan. He didnt say "a sword". Re read the statement, he says any blade. There is no way you're going to tell me he's not referring to Zacian.

You also didn't even address my argument that Leon doesn't even know about Mustard's Urshifu


Everything12 said:
I always assumed that it was infinite energy, as in it kept producing energy with no end, and not infinite energy as in it just has an infinite supply of energy.

The Creselia one isn't just no anti-feats. It's that it has no Anti-feats, it's counterparts it's consistently shown as equal to has feats of engaging in combat with the Space-Time Duo for a period of time and has a Tier 2 feat of it's own.

Meanwhile, Eternatus has few to no feats of it's own. With it's current Tier being only through scaling and statements, vague ones at that. Plus, though the Creation and Weather Trio are known to the populous, it is only to the extent of legends and hearsay for the general public. With only people who actively researching them knowing the true extent of their abilities, and even then few of those people have actually witnessed their power. Leon and Mustard haven't shown any evidence to be part of these groups.
Click to expand...
So Leon knows about Mustard and how strong his Urshifu would be even though he doesn't even know he has one, but he somehow doesn't know about how strong some of the most popular Pokemon are? I'm not saying we should upgrade Leon, I'm saying the statement can't be used. And I'm assuming you're ok with removing that statement? There are other feats and statements that can be used
 
Arceus0x said:
Anyways so, i've found out that sadly Eternatus does release infinite energy over time.
the word used is 放出されている which uses the -teiru tense which is how the progressive tense is formed. http://guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/progressive_tense
thus Eternatus has only unlimited energy, not infinite, which is the same statement we see in solgaleo's entry.
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This doesn't make it that much less impressive. Your translation is also faulty, no idea how you got it to be "unlimited" and not "infinite" when it almost always means infinite
 
I think unlimited can mean infinite, but it's not definite. Unlimited just means there's no known cap, but infinite would say it's permanently neverending and produces that much at all times.
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
This doesn't make it that much less impressive. Your translation is also faulty, no idea how you got it to be "unlimited" and not "infinite" when it almost always means infinite
Click to expand...
i've explained myself already, every part of the sentence and word. You say it's faulty yet you bring nothing to the table.
The word is indeed infinite, however it is being released over a period of time due to what i explained, meaning that it infinite in a sense of lacking a limit rather than high 3-A. Kinda like a car that can drive forever vs. a car than can move at infinite speed
 
either way it makes 0 sense and if we use this statement then we're gonna have to use all 1001 statements about mewtwo being the ultimate strongest pokemon that are being made to this day and unless you want 2-A mewtwo then forget this Necrozma statement.
XXKINGXX69 said:
Its not even stated to the protagonist
Click to expand...
 
Arceus0x said:
either way it makes 0 sense and if we use this statement then we're gonna have to use all 1001 statements about mewtwo being the ultimate strongest pokemon that are being made to this day and unless you want 2-A mewtwo then forget this Necrozma statement.
Click to expand...
No I'm not gonna ask you guys to upgrade Necrozma to 2-A

Arceus0x said:
i've explained myself already, every part of the sentence and word. You say it's faulty yet you bring nothing to the table.
The word is indeed infinite, however it is being released over a period of time due to what i explained, meaning that it infinite in a sense of lacking a limit rather than high 3-A. Kinda like a car that can drive forever vs. a car than can move at infinite speed
Click to expand...
I'm asking for proof. Like is it possible for you to ask a translator? If not, I can find one. Also, you agree that we can't use Leon's statement to put Eternatus above Urshifu, correct?
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
I'm asking for proof. Like is it possible for you to ask a translator? If not, I can find one. Also, you agree that we can't use Leon's statement to put Eternatus above Urshifu, correct?
Click to expand...
I know a limited amount of japanese and i linked the site above that explains all the language nuances. You can try to ask a translator, it's a waste of time but you can try either way if you wanna.
I also agree with not using Leon's statement.
 
Don't assume what I said, I'm merely stating that just because Leon is a Champion doesn't mean we should assume he knows things we have no evidence of. However, as Champion of the Galar region his opinion on it being the strongest Pokémon he's encountered still has weight to it.
 
Everything12 said:
Don't assume what I said, I'm merely stating that just because Leon is a Champion doesn't mean we should assume he knows things we have no evidence of. However, as Champion of the Galar region his opinion on it being the strongest Pokémon he's encountered still has weight to it.
Click to expand...
He has never encountered Urshifu
 
I'll admit I misread your CRT at first, but yeah I agree we shouldn't use the statement if it has implications that either obviously aren't true, and/or are not nearly supported enough for us to be certain it's true.

So, yes, it seems scaling the Galar legendaries to Urshifu is faulty if that's the only evidence.
 
I mean, why shouldn't Leon know about Urshifu? Mustard is his master, of course he knows about Urshifu. Why wouldn't he include his Urshifu there?
 
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