Erza vs Sakura: Rematch

[Mommyleona]

The train of FRA for erza is highly sus

there's literally no "fra train", yall need to stop coping and accept that other people can have different opinions

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Then that's the reasoning.

that isn't reasoning, if they can't explain how erzas weapons can actually overwelm sakura then there is no reasoning

Others have already discussed this, Sakura isn't very evasive, the Sasori fight was her being helped by Chiyo.

Once again she was adapting as the fight progressed if you want to say sakura dosen't scale your gonna have to show scans suggesting that sakura either at the end of the fight dosen't scale or that sakura post sasori can't handle that level of danmaku

otherwise your cherrypicking by saying an earlier key can't do it so a later key with new statements can't do it

also there's still the fact she dealing with dozens of puppets by herself without chiyo helping her making this a mute point

Sakuras not effortlessly evading every single attack.

bare minimum she evades most of them which is good enough

Sakura will get hit and she'll have to regen.

even if assume she does erza would have to consistently hit her ALOT for that to be a problem

Sakura will get hit at some point that does her in. That isn't impossible, it's not unsubstantiated, Erza's fully capable of doing it.

You do realize if erza just hits her once or twice that won't matter right?

She's literally just fighting a couple of puppets in that scene.

Here i'll do you a favor go and count the amount of puppets sakura dodged and smashed then come back to me

You can't demonstrate her visually combatting 100 puppets

Nobody said she countered all 100 puppets we're just saying she handled dozens of them

let alone Erza's 200 swords.

what suggests erza has 200 swords? What suggests sakura can't just use her analytical prediction to predict and dodge them all? What suggests erza would even get to use heavens wheel in a way that would be to far away for sakura to capitilize off of.

And I don't think anyone's saying Sakura can't at all dodge, she's clearly capable but it's more that Sakura will be hit within such a scenario multiple times and that will cause her to need to regen.

Multiple times won't cut it, she can get stabbed and be completely fine as long as it's not a head injury or something that cuts her in half she's ok

As long as she can finish erza before stamina becomes an issue she's fine

I think she will at some point just be fatigued from needing to constantly regenerate from it and exhaust her chakra.

Why are we assuming erza can hit her enough times for that to happen?

This is ignoring Erza's many different elemental sword abilities.

All of which get adapted to and become useless once sakura is in close range and breaks them all with class T

 

[Arkenis]

that isn't reasoning, if they can't explain how erzas weapons can actually overwelm sakura then there is no reasoning

The sheer amount of switching from different weapons and different amps and different ways of fighting.

Once again she was adapting as the fight progressed if you want to say sakura dosen't scale your gonna have to show scans suggesting that sakura either at the end of the fight dosen't scale or that sakura post sasori can't handle that level of danmaku

otherwise your cherrypicking by saying an earlier key can't do it so a later key with new statements can't do it

also there's still the fact she dealing with dozens of puppets by herself without chiyo helping her making this a mute point

You're confused how this works. Progressing does not mean she will reach a level not shown. No one's cheerypicking. War Arc Sakura literally has nothing new for skill so we can use the early p2 key as a standard for skill. Dozens of puppets isn't 200 swords.

even if assume she does erza would have to consistently hit her ALOT for that to be a problem

Okay? Erza's got the stamina and skill.

Nobody said she countered all 100 puppets we're just saying she handled dozens of them

Then that isn't enough is the point and we can't assume she'd progress to 200.

what suggests erza has 200 swords? What suggests sakura can't just use her analytical prediction to predict and dodge them all? What suggests erza would even get to use heavens wheel in a way that would be to far away for sakura to capitilize off of.

The page says Erza says it and Erza said it. Sakura hasn't predicted the trajectory of 200 objects before. Erza can fly so the distance can easily be gained while Sakura struggles to fight an aerial combatant. This is getting repetitive because you think Sakura's this jumping bean ninja who can causally fight in mid air while she's being attacked by 200 swords.

Why are we assuming erza can hit her enough times for that to happen?

It's 200 swords and other amps.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Not paying attention here but I hope yall realized my "Ezra FRA fr" comment at the start was sarcastic

 

[Delusionaltx2]

there's literally no "fra train", yall need to stop coping and accept that other people can have different opinions

the opinions aren't actually being justified as anything more than opinions

People are saying "erza is just as smart as sakura" and i ask how and they don't explain anything because using profiles sakura humiliates erza in terms of battle smarts, stratagy, adaptability etc

people are saying "LS with reletive to potentially higher ap dosen't do anything" while there are literally threads of thread mods and CGM explaining what LS with relative ap can do so why are we ignoring that and saying "yeah erza can still handle sakura in close range despite the enormous LS gap"

most of this thread has been people sayin "erza does this because she can" "erza does that because she can" the few arguments that actually aim to counter the points brought up against her consist of people cherry picking and ignoring what the arguments say. people are mentioning that chiyo was helping her at the begining and middle of the sasori fight, cool the argument was that since sakura was adapting to him as the fight progressess she can handle that level of danmaku on her own which is shown in how by the end she's fighting on par with chiyo, not getting saved anymore.

I'll say it once and i'll say it again "This is FT we ain't gotta explain s***"

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Not paying attention here but I hope yall realized my "Ezra FRA fr" comment at the start was sarcastic

Same

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The sheer amount of switching from different weapons and different amps and different ways of fighting.

Most of erzas weapons consist of stuff as mostly medival with extra steps

Like you have swords, whips, shields, and I think thats it

You're confused how this works. Progressing does not mean she will reach a level not shown. No one's cheerypicking. War Arc Sakura literally has nothing new for skill so we can use the early p2 key as a standard for skill. Dozens of puppets isn't 200 swords.

She is literally shown at the end of the fight to be holding her own against sasoris puppets without chiyos helping her dodge attacks therefore she can

Okay? Erza's got the stamina and skill.

Based on what? How long can she last? how is she more skilled?

Then that isn't enough is the point and we can't assume she'd progress to 200.

Where are you getting this number from????????

The page says Erza says it and Erza said it. Sakura hasn't predicted the trajectory of 200 objects before.

again where are you getting this number from and i'll do you a favor if it's just a statement saying she has 200 swords or something like that then you'd also have to prove she shoots them all at once instead of just in dozens or smth

Erza can fly so the distance can easily be gained while Sakura struggles to fight an aerial combatant.

Erzas flight speed has no feats i'll assume it's slower than shunshin and move on

This is getting repetitive because you think Sakura's this jumping bean ninja who can causally fight in mid air while she's being attacked by 200 swords.

No i think sakura is a very evasive and adaptable fighter that would just not let the fight reach the air if she knows she can't do anything about it

at worst as karo senpai said she just hits her with a feint or something and locks her down

It's 200 swords and other amps.

"She has 200 swords because yes"

and other amps that are weaker than sakura

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

there's literally no "fra train", yall need to stop coping and accept that other people can have different opinions

Uhm they just said FRA and dipped. Didn’t even quote the reasons they are FRA for just a quick FRA and dipped.

 

[Arkenis]

She is literally shown at the end of the fight to be holding her own against sasoris puppets without chiyos helping her dodge attacks therefore she can

That's a couple of puppets not 200 swords. I don't even scale FT, I'm done with this match

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That's a couple of puppets not 200 swords. I don't even scale FT, I'm done with this match

I'm starting to believe you're pulling the invisible 200 swords number out prob from some FT supporter saying "trust me bro i'm an expert" like how most people have been doing

Please show me the scan where it says she has 200 swords and she shoots them all at once or show me where this is accepted because the profile dosen't list this and nothing suggests she has that amount

 

[MintyBoi1]

I feel like arguing more is gonna get me nowhere, so I’m just gonna stick with Erza. Sakura’s advantages are there, but it feels like we’re really reaching to say that she can counter literally everything Erza can do because she can see her fingers.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I feel like arguing more is gonna get me nowhere, so I’m just gonna stick with Erza. Sakura’s advantages are there, but it feels like we’re really reaching to say that she can counter literally everything Erza can do because she can see her fingers.

No? I'm saying sakura can handle erzas danmaku with analytical prediction that allows her to adapt to characters with more complicated attacks on a larger scale

Also you're just gonna say "sakuras advantages are there" and just leave it at that? you're not gonna explain how erza handles class T physicals at close range? your not gonna explain why erzas flight armour is faster than shunshin? you're just gonna say "yeah sakuras advantages which consists of being much smarter and destroying her at close range is there but erza still got it" and leave it at that? why even vote at all at that point?

oh wait a min mb "this is FT I ain't gotta explain s***"

 

[Mickey1940]

so what are Erza's wincons again

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Anyways it like 8-5 in erzas favor (I'm genuinely done)

I'm just gonna keep track of grace ig

 

[Delusionaltx2]

so what are Erza's wincons again

This is FT, I ain't gotta explain s***

@Mickey1940 I suggest you just read the entire thing for yourself

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Very funny, sure, we should delete a 100+ Page Verse that has a bunch of stuff to it because it hasn’t been updated because it’s currently in its final arc and latest revisions can’t happen yet…

VERY FUNNY bud

I am laughing so hard indeed

Go cry another place Mitch

 

[MountainWine]

Reading the profiles of both (ngl people on both sides aren’t) would answer some of the questions, just saying

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Reading the profiles of both (ngl people on both sides aren’t) would answer some of the questions, just saying

"How is erzas flight armour faster than shunshin?"

Her profile: Limited Flight (Via Several Armors), Speed Amplification (Via Flight Armor),

 

[MintyBoi1]

"How is erzas flight armour faster than shunshin?"

Her profile: Limited Flight (Via Several Armors), Speed Amplification (Via Flight Armor),

Why are you so focused on that point when it’s not a main argument from what I’ve seen

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Why are you so focused on that point when it’s not a main argument from what I’ve seen

The main argument is literally "yeah erza can just outrange her with projectile danmaku"

The main counter argument was that sakura would just catch her with shunshin and ragdoll her back down

The counter to that was "She has speed amps as well like flight armour"

thats literally a big reason why people think "yeah erza can just camp in the air"

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Do the FT fans even know what they are arguing for

 

[MountainWine]

"How is erzas flight armour faster than shunshin?"

Her profile: Limited Flight (Via Several Armors), Speed Amplification (Via Flight Armor),

The PaA of her page is old and poor (no hate intended to whoever made them). I’d reckon to actually check her equipment section. Her flight armor lists what she’s actually capable of doing.

That begs the question on how fast is Sakura when using Shunshin. It varies from users to users and I don’t recall an exact multiplication figure.

Erza with her Flight Armor was capable of keeping up with opponents who previously blitzed her and the FT gang.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Do the FT fans even know what they are arguing for

No from the looks of it


Dw this ain't an FRA train though people just have different opinions right? they are justifying and totally explaining why they think erza wins with full context and knowledge on the argument right?

 

[MintyBoi1]

The main argument is literally "yeah erza can just outrange her with projectile danmaku"

The main counter argument was that sakura would just catch her with shunshin and ragdoll her back down

The counter to that was "She has speed amps as well like flight armour"

thats literally a big reason why people think "yeah erza can just camp in the air"

Ok so her speed amps were mentioned earlier, got it. Like mentioned, I think Erza’s flight and Heaven’s Wheel would be good bets, but if she is knocked out of the air, she does still have a lot to throw at Sakura. The LS gap would be hard to get through since it can help win clashes, but Erza has similar levels of skill, and Empowerment just like Sakura. There’s also her defensive armors which could stall long enough to take it back to the sky or get a good hit to the head.

I still don’t think Sakura’s prediction is as great as it’s being made out to be or that just having a great travel speed amp will totally overwhelm Erza with repeated exposure. Especially since all that’s been cited for the prediction is the Sasori fight where she had a ton of help and still struggled greatly against someone I’d argue is less of an unpredictable fighter and more just someone who’s good at bombarding.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The PaA of her page is old and poor (no hate intended to whoever made them). I’d reckon to actually check her equipment section. Her flight armor lists what she’s actually capable of doing.

That begs the question on how fast is Sakura when using Shunshin. It varies from users to users and I don’t recall an exact multiplication figure.

As already brought up, bums that sakura scales above like hinata can cross the hidden leaf in seconds which is accepted to be like 20km

Erza with her Flight Armor was capable of keeping up with opponents who previously blitzed her and the FT gang.

Ah but you see as you guys already brought up, erza running away and sakura catching her is travel speed so arguing shunshin is a blitz amp in combat speed is irrelevant yes? show how fast her travel speed is

 

[Mickey1940]

The sheer amount of switching from different weapons and different amps and different ways of fighting.

how does that help her when the vast majority of them aren't strong enough to significantly injure Sakura even without regeneration

You're confused how this works. Progressing does not mean she will reach a level not shown. No one's cheerypicking. War Arc Sakura literally has nothing new for skill so we can use the early p2 key as a standard for skill. Dozens of puppets isn't 200 swords.

dozens of puppets all covered in poison and slashing rapidly is better than 200 swords that she's literally never used in a single target context aind instead just spams circle slash which does f*ck all

Okay? Erza's got the stamina and skill.

saying Erza has skill when she has zero scans and her scaling is from contentious analytical prediction stuff while completely ignoring Sakura's skill sounds biased

The page says Erza says it and Erza said it. Sakura hasn't predicted the trajectory of 200 objects before. Erza can fly so the distance can easily be gained while Sakura struggles to fight an aerial combatant. This is getting repetitive because you think Sakura's this jumping bean ninja who can causally fight in mid air while she's being attacked by 200 swords.

again, not only does Erza rarely use her Danmaku in a single target context, but she also... can't throw 200 swords at once

Sakura is a single person. She literally doesn't have enough surface area to get hit by 200 swords, and even if she's pincushioned she just ignores it cuz regeneration is funny



Like is Heaven's Wheel Armor literally the only thing Erza has going for her and the only thing people have been arguing?

Here's all of her fights with Heaven's Wheel:
Erza vs Eisenwald Guild: Erza uses a bunch of swords to 1 shot crowds of fodder
Erza vs Aria: Erza uses Blumenbalt and Aria doesn't even have any bleeding wounds. She also chooses not to fly
Erza vs Ikaruga: Erza tries using Circle Swords and it immediately doesn't work and she gets all of her swords and the armor broken
Erza vs Evergreen: Erza only equips it after Evergreen is defeated, and even then she just punched her in the face as a gag scene, since the armor was just used for intimidation
Erza vs Laxus: She doesn't even use it against Laxus and instead uses it to target the Lightning Bombs around the city
Erza vs Cobra: Erza uses like 10 swords and Cobra dodges even before he has Sound Magic, and he just sidesteps a single inch to the left and all of them miss. Erza is seemingly also unable to move the swords that hit the ground, either because she isn't able to or she's just extremely stupid. The latter seems to be the case here
Erza vs Midnight: Erza shoots dozens of swords at Midnight and he reflects them without even moving. Erza is unable to move her swords from shooting back at her for some reason. She also chooses not to fly
Erza vs Copy Lizardmen: The lizardmen copy the armor, but instead of shooting swords both of them resort to melee combat. She also chooses not to fly
Erza vs Erza Knightwalker: Erza immediately goes for melee, continues melee till she gets knocked back, uses Trinity Sword (a single projectile), Knightwalker neutralizes it with a black hole, Erza dodges the counterattack, and immediately switches armor. She also chooses not to fly
Erza vs Meredy, She charges Meredy headfirst and ironically gets assaulted by Meredy's danmaku

I can honestly keep going but I think you see my point. The only fight where she actually uses a LOT of swords is against Midnight, who just neutralized it without moving. She rarely flies and even more rarely spams Danmaku. If she does what she does in character and just charges Sakura headfirst like an idiot, Sakura's just gonna break her armor in a couple of hits due to Sakura's stronger AP compared to Erza's weaker dura (Heaven's Wheel is around 20 ish gigatons but the durability isn't much better than her base which is still 10), and if Sakura breaks the armor Erza can't use it anymore and now she's shit out of luck. Erza needs to kill Sakura before that happens, but that simply won't happen unless she flies and spams danmaku like a coward, which she quite literally has never done, not even against Midnight.

 

[DailyFairy]

Anyways it like 8-5 in erzas favor (I'm genuinely done)

I'm just gonna keep track of grace ig

It's 9 in Erza's favor actually

 

[Mickey1940]

Ok so her speed amps were mentioned earlier, got it. Like mentioned, I think Erza’s flight and Heaven’s Wheel would be good bets, but if she is knocked out of the air, she does still have a lot to throw at Sakura. The LS gap would be hard to get through since it can help win clashes, but Erza has similar levels of skill, and Empowerment just like Sakura. There’s also her defensive armors which could stall long enough to take it back to the sky or get a good hit to the head.

She has 1 defensive armor: Adamantine armor, and that's just the shields. The armor itself has no feats since she's never taken hits with it on. Said shields also got broken down by fodder enemies in the 100 Monsters event in the Grand Magic Games. It clearly cant' handle repeated hits

"A good hit to the head" is something Erza has quite literally never done ever. That's probably a result of shitty FT animation, but every single time she hits someone, they either just explode or they get hit across the chest. She's never gone for the head against any human enemy ever

I still don’t think Sakura’s prediction is as great as it’s being made out to be or that just having a great travel speed amp will totally overwhelm Erza with repeated exposure. Especially since all that’s been cited for the prediction is the Sasori fight where she had a ton of help and still struggled greatly against someone I’d argue is less of an unpredictable fighter and more just someone who’s good at bombarding.

Sakura's martial arts and general fighting skill can keep up with Erza's swordplay since Sakura has better formal training and relatively comparable Analytical Prediction to the likes of Natsu. Sakura has significantly better formal training while Erza has quite literally f*ckall

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Ok so her speed amps were mentioned earlier, got it. Like mentioned, I think Erza’s flight and Heaven’s Wheel would be good bets,

why?

but if she is knocked out of the air, she does still have a lot to throw at Sakura.

I don't think you understand if she gets ragdolled with an LS diff this big thats it unless she has ways to escape that don't rely on LS thats just it

The LS gap would be hard to get through since it can help win clashes, but Erza has similar levels of skill

like what?

, and Empowerment just like Sakura.

Part 1 naruto with empowerment went from being unable to do anything to partially transformed garra to being able to damage him iirc this is an actual example of how big empowerment buffs in nard can get

There’s also her defensive armors which could stall long enough to take it back to the sky or get a good hit to the head.

uhh no? Anytime erza uses any armour to defend against sakura she can just peel it away

anytime she uses a shield sakura just does this a prime example of how LS is very useful here

I still don’t think Sakura’s prediction is as great as it’s being made out to be

why

or that just having a great travel speed amp will totally overwhelm Erza with repeated exposure.

that alone isn't whats doing that, it just prevents erza from flying away, class T physicals will be doing most of that

Especially since all that’s been cited for the prediction is the Sasori fight where she had a ton of help

Once again she was adapting as the fight progressed and by the end of the fight she can fight him without needing help to dodge his attacks if you disagree please show how post sasori sakura can't handle sasori lvl danmaku without help otherwise ur just cherry picking by applying the weaknessess of an earlier key to the weaknessess of a later key

and still struggled greatly against someone I’d argue is less of an unpredictable fighter and more just someone who’s good at bombarding.

good luck arguing erzas danmaku is more unpredicable than needle sphere

 

[MountainWine]

As already brought up, bums that sakura scales above like hinata can cross the hidden leaf in seconds which is accepted to be like 20km

This doesn’t give a multiplication value tho?

Ah but you see as you guys already brought up, erza running away and sakura catching her is travel speed so arguing shunshin is a blitz amp in combat speed is irrelevant yes? show how fast her travel speed is

No it isn’t irrelevant but no multiplication value to help with gauging if she’s blitzing

 

[MountainWine]

It's 9 in Erza's favor actually

Some of the votes were trolling?

 

[Mickey1940]

Right now it just seems like Erza wins cuz:

1. "She's super duper skilled I swear"
2. Heaven's Wheel camping


... and again, that's literally ******* it

meanwhile Erza has no answer to Sakura's arguably better skill, vastly superior LS (Sakura grabs her = gg basically), breaking all of Erza's armor, and has anyone mentioned Sakura's poison yet that Erza has zero answer for?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Mitch could have debated on her favor instead of just crying not gonna lie

I guess this is beneath him, alongside putting outdated status in the verse I guess

 

[DailyFairy]

Some of the votes were trolling?

I didn't count the 2 toll votes. If you did the same, then it'd be 8

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This doesn’t give a multiplication value tho?

crossing 20km in like 5 seconds translates to 8947.75 miles per hour, the fastest human can run at 28 mph

thats a 319.5625x difference being applying to her base travel speed which would equal erzas base travel speed

No it isn’t irrelevant but no multiplication value to help with gauging if she’s blitzing

Read above, sakura humilates her in travel speed using shunshin then beats on her with class T physicals

 

[Arkenis]

I'm starting to believe you're pulling the invisible 200 swords number out prob from some FT supporter saying "trust me bro i'm an expert" like how most people have been doing

Please show me the scan where it says she has 200 swords and she shoots them all at once or show me where this is accepted because the profile dosen't list this and nothing suggests she has that amount

Heaven's Wheel Armor: Plated armor covers her chest, with a large metal flower over it, and she wears a large billowing skirt that has metal plating in the upper area. Her stomach and neck are uncovered, and she has large metal wings that appear to be made of individual blades, as well as a wing-like headpiece. Erza can summon plenty of swords (Roughly more than 200) and launch weapons at her opponent(s) in a variety of different ways. The armor is meant to be used for facing multiple opponents.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

meanwhile Erza has no answer to Sakura's arguably better skill, vastly superior LS (Sakura grabs her = gg basically), breaking all of Erza's armor, and has anyone mentioned Sakura's poison yet that Erza has zero answer for?

the only answer to this is that using katsuyu in that compacity is out of character but now that we're on the subject would using heavens wheel to camp be in character for erza? especially when most of her showings are just her running towards her opponent at close range?

 

[Mommyleona]

the opinions aren't actually being justified as anything more than opinions

yes they are, you repeatedly denying that doesnt mean they're not justified

what LS with relative ap can do

as in, sakura having to grab erza then rip her apart? as that's definitely something that'll happen

most of this thread has been people sayin "erza does this because she can" "erza does that because she can" the few arguments that actually aim to counter the points brought up against her consist of people cherry picking and ignoring what the arguments say

that is your opinion, you're literally saying the same "sakura does this because she can" and for points for erza you go "well no that doesnt matter" when it does, atleast to many people here. that's why everyone gets 1 vote. you are basically dead set on sakura winning, so if its not sakura winning then it must be wrong

Uhm they just said FRA and dipped

this is not what fra train is, its like 1? 2 at best? people who said that maybe. fra train is having 1 sided argument and the rest just agrees, that is not what happening here

Didn’t even quote the reasons

they do not have to

not to mention this is a redo attempt

 

[Mickey1940]

I also want to mention that Sakura's arsenal is significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than Erza's.

This means that if both fighters's options start dwindling, Sakura is gonna pull the OOC strats out first

Sakura's strategy boils down to:
Punch things -> use poisoned ninja tools -> summon katsuyu

Erza's strategy is:
cycle through dozens of armors until one of them works

 

[Arkenis]

Mitch could have debated on her favor instead of just crying not gonna lie

I guess this is beneath him, alongside putting outdated status in the verse I guess

Yea, but people can also just recognize a page is outdated and that they probably shouldn't do a match with that character.