Eminem fights a Teenage Girl

[YungManzi]

Enel

Vs.

Rishia Ivyred

Low 7-B versions.

Speed Equal.

Who wins?

 

[Da3ggman]

Rishia can't even touch Enel due to his intagibility; stomp.

Edit: Does her NPI cover elemental intagability?

 

[YungManzi]

Rishia can't even touch Enel due to his intagibility; stomp.

Edit: Does her NPI cover elemental intagability?

Probably not. Defensive rating and hengen muso stuff negs that though.

 

[Da3ggman]

Probably not. Defensive rating and hengen muso stuff negs that though.

If she can't negate his elemental intagibility, she can't send anything into him, since he is literally just lightning.

 

[YungManzi]

If she can't negate his elemental intagibility, she can't send anything into him, since he is literally just lightning.

He has life a force and a soul right?

If so, then yes she can.

Edit: it’s not like she can’t physically touch him, she’d just be touching a Lightning body.

 

[Da3ggman]

He has life a force and a soul right?

If so, then yes she can.

Edit: it’s not like she can’t physically touch him, she’d just be touching a Lightning body.

So it goes into the soul? In that case, yeah, it should work.

Also, no, she wouldn't even be able to touch him in his lightning body, since you need to be able to touch electrons, which she evidently can't.

Also, where does she scale in AP? I can't seem to find any calc for it.

 

[YungManzi]

So it goes into the soul? In that case, yeah, it should work.

Also, no, she wouldn't even be able to touch him in his lightning body, since you need to be able to touch electrons, which she evidently can't.

Also, where does she scale in AP? I can't seem to find any calc for it.

Electricity is made up of electrons, but you don’t need to touch electrons to touch electricity.

 

[Da3ggman]

Electricity is made up of electrons, but you don’t need to touch electrons to touch electricity.

His physical body made of Electrons, which you can't physically touch normally. And yes, you DO need to be able to touch electrons normally in order to touch electricity; try grabbing electricity and tell me if you are able to throw it.

 

[YungManzi]

His physical body made of Electrons, which you can't physically touch normally. And yes, you DO need to be able to touch electrons normally in order to touch electricity; try grabbing electricity and tell me if you are able to throw it.

It’s not something you can throw, it you can indeed physically interact with it.

Otherwise people couldn’t be electrocuted.

 

[Da3ggman]

It’s not something you can throw, it you can indeed physically interact with it.

Otherwise people couldn’t be electrocuted.

Hey, I'm just using the standards of the wiki. On the wiki, we classify lightning as intangible. If you want to change it, make a CRT.

 

[LordGinSama]

Electricity can touch you but you cannot physically touch Electricity. It's energy, not a physical element such as water, sand or ice.


Furthermore Enel can form holes in his body and even touching him would be a suicide move since she'd be fried in the process.

 

[Da3ggman]

Also, where does she scale in AP? I can't seem to find any calc for it.

 

[YungManzi]

Electricity can touch you but you cannot physically touch Electricity. It's energy, not a physical element such as water, sand or ice.

There’s still a physical interaction happening.

The hole thing is a separate argument that we can talk about after we discuss whether Hengen Muso affects him


Honestly, the hardest thing to get past would be his Regen. Which is the convo I really want to get to kek.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Enel's lightning body is separate from his physical body btw, I'm assuming she needs to touch him physically to be able to damage his soul/life force? Even tho I can't really find that on her profile

身体を砂に変化させ、自在に操る能力。砂状態では身体の原型を保たず、基本的に打撃などの物理攻撃は無効。

The ability to transform one's body into sand and manipulate it at will. In the sand state, the body does not retain its original form, and physical attacks such as blows are basically ineffective.

So don't think that touching/interacting with the lightning is the same as touching/interacting his physical body, the attack would work if it was without physical interaction tho

 

[Da3ggman]

Voting Enel.

Massive AP advantage (Casually deletes 2 Megaton attack vs Baseline)

Monstrous Lifting strength advantage (Class G vs Superhuman )

Better abilities (Various lighting techniques + Busted Pre-cog and Mind reading vs one possible way of hitting him)

If this isn't a stomp, then it sure as hell is a decisive victory.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I loved this thread name lmao

Does Enel has a way to counter power nulification?

 

[Da3ggman]

I loved this thread name lmao

Does Enel has a way to counter power nulification?

The object that inflicts it can't even hit Enel.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

The object that inflicts it can't even hit Enel.

Ok, i thinked that would happen

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Enel FRA

 

[YungManzi]

Massive AP advantage (Casually deletes 2 Megaton attack vs Baseline)

Rishia is literally Low 7-B+. And actually scales way above the around 4.2 megaton range.

Monstrous Lifting strength advantage (Class G vs Superhuman )

Irrelevant.

Better abilities (Various lighting techniques + Busted Pre-cog and Mind reading vs one possible way of hitting him)

Also has precog and sensory capabilities, and far superior battle skills.

Enel's lightning body is separate from his physical body btw, I'm assuming she needs to touch him physically to be able to damage his soul/life force? Even tho I can't really find that on her profile

So don't think that touching/interacting with the lightning is the same as touching/interacting his physical body, the attack would work if it was without physical interaction tho

She doesn't damage the soul.

She injects her own life-force into a person or object to inflict damage. I could argue she can touch lightning.

Enel's lightning body is separate from his physical body btw, I'm assuming she needs to touch him physically to be able to damage his soul/life force? Even tho I can't really find that on her profile

She has life-force energy manipulation. But, yes it requires touch.

So don't think that touching/interacting with the lightning is the same as touching/interacting his physical body, the attack would work if it was without physical interaction tho

Why couldn't she put her life force into his lightning body if she can also put it into inanimate objects?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

She injects her own life-force into a person or object to inflict damage. I could argue she can touch lightning.

And how would that do anything to Enel?

She has life-force energy manipulation. But, yes it requires touch.

Mmm

Why couldn't she put her life force into his lightning body if she can also put it into inanimate objects?

Well there's a difference between energy and inanimate objects, you would need additional proof... But even if that was true how would that damage Enel's true body?

 

[Da3ggman]

Rishia is literally Low 7-B+. And actually scales way above the around 4.2 megaton range.

Damn, I'd reeaaaaly like a calc, because her profile and the verse page is hot ass with literally zero scans

Irrelevant.

Yeah, because a 1000000x lifting strength advantage is irrelevant somehow.

Also has precog and sensory capabilities, and far superior battle skills.

How good is her Pre-cog? Can she read minds? Can she sense all of the actions and talk going on across an entire island? Also, I'd argue Enel is definitely skilled in his own right. In his first encounter with someone who could actually effect him, he successfully managed to fight on even grounds with ******* Luffy for Kami's sake (After a bit of shock). He came up with completely new strategies and techniques on the fly, and again, Luffy struggled to keep up with him.

She doesn't damage the soul.

She injects her own life-force into a person or object to inflict damage. I could argue she can touch lightning.

How? Just because you can put life force into a tangible object doesn't mean you can inject it into an intangible one like lightning.

She has life-force energy manipulation. But, yes it requires touch.

If she tries to touch him, she is going to get shocked and hit with like 10000 degree heat.

Why couldn't she put her life force into his lightning body if she can also put it into inanimate objects?

Inanimate =/= intangible. A chair and a photon are both inanimate objects in the sense that they don't have sentience, but you can touch a chair; you can't touch a photon.

 

[YungManzi]

Well there's a difference between energy and inanimate objects, you would need additional proof... But even if that was true how would that damage Enel's true body?

Inanimate =/= intangible. A chair and a photon are both inanimate objects in the sense that they don't have sentience, but you can touch a chair; you can't touch a photon.

Hengen Muso's Life Force can be injected into energy attacks as well in the verse to make them stronger, so it should work on energy as well.

Damn, I'd reeaaaaly like a calc, because her profile and the verse page is hot ass with literally zero scans

It's on Ost Horai's page, that the spirit tortoise destroyed a mountain with it's laser. Assuming it's a small mountain and it was fragmentation, that gives us 1.4 megatons according to this.

4.2 Megatons comes from multipliers.

Yeah, because a 1000000x lifting strength advantage is irrelevant somehow.

What is he gonna do with that advantage?

How good is her Pre-cog? Can she read minds? Can she sense all of the actions and talk going on across an entire island? Also, I'd argue Enel is definitely skilled in his own right. In his first encounter with someone who could actually effect him, he successfully managed to fight on even grounds with ******* Luffy for Kami's sake (After a bit of shock). He came up with completely new strategies and techniques on the fly, and again, Luffy struggled to keep up with him.

He fought on par with luffy arguably just because of haki. Not actual skill.'

Precog feats:

I can get more scans for it later when I get home.

Edit:

For context, Rishia was literally the slowest person there, but because of precog she was the only one who could read Kyo's attacks. Which is why he called her the baby in the room.

If she tries to touch him, she is going to get shocked and hit with like 10000 degree heat.

And if she does, she heals herself and keeps fighting kek.

She can also shield herself with life force.

 

[Dragonite007]

And if she does, she heals herself and keeps fighting kek.

She can also shield herself with life force.

Mid-Low is not enough to heal from lightning burns

 

[YungManzi]

Mid-Low is not enough to heal from lightning burns

It is for someone who physically scales much higher than the people Enel can reasonably inflict damaging burns upon.

 

[Da3ggman]

Hengen Muso's Life Force can be injected into energy attacks as well in the verse to make them stronger, so it should work on energy as well.

This could literally mean anything outside of context. What kind of "beam" is it? As in, is it demonstrated as actual energy and intangible?

It's on Ost Horai's page, that the spirit tortoise destroyed a mountain with it's laser. Assuming it's a small mountain and it was fragmentation, that gives us 1.4 megatons according to this.

This is literally garbage at its finest. How big is the mountain? How much of the mountain was destroyed? How long did it take? Was it multiple "particle blasts" or several? This relies faaaaar too much on assumptions to even come close to being usable.

4.2 Megatons comes from multipliers.

Are they accepted on the wiki? If not, you can't use them.

What is he gonna do with that advantage?

Choke her to death, pop her like a pimple, throw her into orbit, etc.

He fought on par with luffy arguably just because of haki. Not actual skill.'

And? Even if it was "just because of haki" (Which is bullshit, since he still had to completely re-adjust his entire fighting style and come up with new moves on the fly to fight something he didn't even think was a concept before), it would still allow him to mitigate any skill gap between the two. Unless, that is, you want to start arguing that she is more skilled than Luffy, in which case.....just no.

Precog feats:

I can get more scans for it later when I get home.

Edit:

For context, Rishia was literally the slowest person there, but because of precog she was the only one who could read Kyo's attacks. Which is why he called her the baby in the room.

This is barely Intermediate level Kenbun, which Enel is extremely proficient in normally; added with his buff to it via electrical waves, he basically ***** on her in this category.

And if she does, she heals herself and keeps fighting kek.

She ain't healing herself from 50000 degree attacks with some weak healing like Mid-Low.

She can also shield herself with life force.

This would probably work, tbh.

 

[YungManzi]

This could literally mean anything outside of context. What kind of "beam" is it? As in, is it demonstrated as actual energy and intangible?

It’s magic. Not Intangible, but magic can interact with the intangible if that makes sense.

This is literally garbage at its finest. How big is the mountain? How much of the mountain was destroyed? How long did it take? Was it multiple "particle blasts" or several? This relies faaaaar too much on assumptions to even come close to being usable.

It’s literally a novel bro, pixel scaling or anything similar isn’t possible; if the text says it’s a mountain, then it’s a mountain. And the feat is novel-only. Doesn’t happen in the anime or the manga.

It was one particle blast and because it takes so make assumptions is why it’s low 7-B. We assumed a smaller mountain and the weakest destruction.

So if anything it’s a lowball. (In addition, the text implies fragmentation)

Are they accepted on the wiki? If not, you can't use them.

Obviously yes. It’s where the + comes from.

Choke her to death, pop her like a pimple, throw her into orbit, etc.

Cap

And? Even if it was "just because of haki" (Which is bullshit, since he still had to completely re-adjust his entire fighting style and come up with new moves on the fly to fight something he didn't even think was a concept before), it would still allow him to mitigate any skill gap between the two. Unless, that is, you want to start arguing that she is more skilled than Luffy, in which case.....just no.

My point is that she has something similar to haki and skill feats on top of that.

She can do a lot of stuff that Luffy can’t with just skill, I won’t argue it rn, but I personally absolutely believe she’s more skilled than Luffy on top of having some similar precog.

This is barely Intermediate level Kenbun, which Enel is extremely proficient in normally; added with his buff to it via electrical waves, he basically ***** on her in this category.

What I said above. Also there are better feats for precog, I just have to look for them

She ain't healing herself from 50000 degree attacks with some weak healing like Mid-Low.

heat doesn’t even hurt characters past a certain durability amount. And everyone burned by Enel has nowhere near comparable durability to her.

Also life-force force fields.

 

[LordGinSama]

heat doesn’t even hurt characters past a certain durability amount. And everyone burned by Enel has nowhere near comparable durability to her.

Your acting as if her durability is great enough to completely ignore heat whenever that isn't the case.


Her durability isn't high enough to the point where she'd neg the heat generated by Enel's lightning. Her durability is hardly twice what Enel has faced so it's not a big difference, especially given that she lacks any resistance to heat attacks. If he hits her she's becoming paralyzed with muscle spasms and getting fried.

 

[YungManzi]

Your acting as if her durability is great enough to completely ignore heat whenever that isn't the case.


Her durability isn't high enough to the point where she'd neg the heat generated by Enel's lightning. Her durability is hardly twice what Enel has faced so it's not a big difference, especially given that she lacks any resistance to heat attacks. If he hits her she's becoming paralyzed with muscle spasms and getting fried.

I didn’t say she would completely ignore it. I’m saying he won’t burn her to a crisp, so she can heal from the burns he would inflict.

Edit:

Btw the scaling gap between her and 4.2 is much bigger than the gap of what Enel scales to. I have a response to paralyzing just give me a while later.

 

[LordGinSama]

Mid-Low isn't gonna let her heal from being fried.


Don't mention the durability thing either, her durability isn't high enough to grant her a resistance to heat manipulation. Heat doesn't give a **** about comparable durability, you'll only last if you have astronomically higher durability than the heat output.

 

[Da3ggman]

It’s magic. Not Intangible, but magic can interact with the intangible if that makes sense.

That doesn't mean it can interact with lightning, then.

It’s literally a novel bro, pixel scaling or anything similar isn’t possible; if the text says it’s a mountain, then it’s a mountain. And the feat is novel-only. Doesn’t happen in the anime or the manga.

It was one particle blast and because it takes so make assumptions is why it’s low 7-B. We assumed a smaller mountain and the weakest destruction.

So if anything it’s a lowball. (In addition, the text implies fragmentation)

Bro...listen to yourself, please. You can't just use a "feat" like this with that many assumptions. We can't reliably calc it, so we can't use it. Honestly, the whole verse should probably be deleted if this is the single thing backing up all of their ratings.

Obviously yes. It’s where the + comes from.

Not how that works. Multipliers have to be accepted in the wiki before they can be added as a concrete multiplier. Get it accepted, then we'll talk about her having the AP advantage.

Cap

Literally no response lmao.

My point is that she has something similar to haki and skill feats on top of that.

She can do a lot of stuff that Luffy can’t with just skill, I won’t argue it rn, but I personally absolutely believe she’s more skilled than Luffy on top of having some similar precog.

Tell me: has she ever caught someone moving 2000 times faster than her without using her precognition, and relying exclusively on skill alone? No? Then she isn't shit compared to Luffy.

What I said above. Also there are better feats for precog, I just have to look for them

Then show them! Or, better yet, add them to the profile!

heat doesn’t even hurt characters past a certain durability amount. And everyone burned by Enel has nowhere near comparable durability to her.

Not only is this just incorrect, but his heat HAS! Luffy is at the very least comparable in durability to her, and has a heat resistance. Guess what happened when Enel tried to burn him? He got burned! She's getting turned into a crisp.

 

[YungManzi]

That doesn't mean it can interact with lightning, then.

The argument was that lifeforce couldn’t interact with pure energy and that’s what that scan was for.

Bro...listen to yourself, please. You can't just use a "feat" like this with that many assumptions. We can't reliably calc it, so we can't use it. Honestly, the whole verse should probably be deleted if this is the single thing backing up all of their ratings.

It’s not. The anime has a High 7-C feat that’s accepted from a few arcs before the Low 7-B one, which is part of the reason why staff also agreed with the rating.

Based on your logic, literally no written verse can be scaled unless precise dimensions are given for any and every feat, which is just plain ridiculous.

There’s plenty of feats like this from other verses I follow (Like Instant Death) because nothing can be completely known for sure with statement like “He eradicated a mountain behind me”. And staff and calc members accept those assumptions and the calcs resulting from them.

If you don’t think text-based verses are scalable or allowable, just say that.

Not how that works. Multipliers have to be accepted in the wiki before they can be added as a concrete multiplier. Get it accepted, then we'll talk about her having the AP advantage.

There’s literally a CRT for it that was accepted.

Tell me: has she ever caught someone moving 2000 times faster than her without using her precognition, and relying exclusively on skill alone? No? Then she isn't shit compared to Luffy.

Then show them! Or, better yet, add them to the profile!

Do you need a CRT to add scans to stuff that’s already accepted? If no then I could do it very soon, if yes I can’t cause I’m working on other stuff rn.

Also I will show more later.

 

[Da3ggman]

The argument was that lifeforce couldn’t interact with pure energy and that’s what that scan was for.

Fair enough.

It’s not. The anime has a High 7-C feat that’s accepted from a few arcs before the Low 7-B one, which is part of the reason why staff also agreed with the rating.

Why isn't the calc listed on any page in the entire verse?

Based on your logic, literally no written verse can be scaled unless precise dimensions are given for any and every feat, which is just plain ridiculous.

There’s plenty of feats like this from other verses I follow (Like Instant Death) because nothing can be completely known for sure with statement like “He eradicated a mountain behind me”. And staff and calc members accept those assumptions and the calcs resulting from them.

If you don’t think text-based verses are scalable or allowable, just say that.

Ahh, the classic straw man.

My argument isn't "Oh, we don't know the exact dimensions, so we can't use it!" My argument is that we literally know nothing about the feat other than the mountain was rubble. Hell, the book doesn't even describe the feat; just the aftermath of one. Do you have any scans of, you know, the feat itself?

There’s literally a CRT for it that was accepted.

Could you kindly link it?

iirc, that's approximately the difference between him and Rob Lucci at the time of their fight. Could be wrong, and if I am, I can provide plenty of other arguments in favor of his skill.

Do you need a CRT to add scans to stuff that’s already accepted? If no then I could do it very soon, if yes I can’t cause I’m working on other stuff rn.

No, because it should have been done in the first place. I don't have any interest in revitalizing the verse, and as it is now, it doesn't meet any criteria to stay up.

Also I will show more later.

Pleased do.

 

[LordGinSama]

Mid-Low isn't gonna let her heal from being fried.


Don't mention the durability thing either, her durability isn't high enough to grant her a resistance to heat manipulation. Heat doesn't give a **** about comparable durability, you'll only last if you have astronomically higher durability than the heat output.

^

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He fought on par with luffy arguably just because of haki. Not actual skill.'

Precog feats:

I can get more scans for it later when I get home.

Edit:

For context, Rishia was literally the slowest person there, but because of precog she was the only one who could read Kyo's attacks. Which is why he called her the baby in the room.

Where is the proof of precog here? It seems to mostly be analytical prediction, enhanced senses and skill, before using the life force she said; it's easy to read the attacks of these women, the life force technique just seems to be an amp

Water Manipulation, Statistics Amplification (Can use Muso Activation, which increases one's physical and magical power)

Hengen Muso's Life Force can be injected into energy attacks as well in the verse to make them stronger, so it should work on energy as well.

Depends what beam it is, could be a beam of water or something... But ok still, you still haven't said why that will help/be beneficial

 

[YungManzi]

Why isn't the calc listed on any page in the entire verse?

It’s on Naofumi’s page in the durability section cause he’s the shield hero kek

Ahh, the classic straw man.

My argument isn't "Oh, we don't know the exact dimensions, so we can't use it!" My argument is that we literally know nothing about the feat other than the mountain was rubble. Hell, the book doesn't even describe the feat; just the aftermath of one. Do you have any scans of, you know, the feat itself?

That’s what I’m saying. Plenty of verses from novels have accepted calcs for feats where very little is known about the object that was destroyed.

Could you kindly link it?

Later. Im still on mobile.

iirc, that's approximately the difference between him and Rob Lucci at the time of their fight. Could be wrong, and if I am, I can provide plenty of other arguments in favor of his skill.

The Luffy that fought Lucci isn’t the one that fought Enel. I think saying she’s as skilled as that Luffy is a much harder question and it’s not an argument I would make.

No, because it should have been done in the first place. I don't have any interest in revitalizing the verse, and as it is now, it doesn't meet any criteria to stay up.

Back in the day, links and especially references to every single power wasn’t as popular as it is now (started working on the pages in like 2019 or something) lol, if a CRT isn’t required I could look through my notes for the verses and fight the references to list them.

Where is the proof of precog here? It seems to mostly be analytical prediction, enhanced senses and skill, before using the life force she said; it's easy to read the attacks of these women, the life force technique just seems to be an amp

They predict attacks by using life force to read a person’s actions.

I’ll have to find the quote for that, but yeah.

Muso Activation is something completely different from the standard technique, and it’s not something Rishia could even do at the time she dodged those attacks (Volume 7)

Depends what beam it is, could be a beam of water or something... But ok still, you still haven't said why that will help/be beneficial

It means she could interact with him kek.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It means she could interact with him kek.

How... And being able to interact with his lightning is doing anything to Enel himself

she has no way of damaging Enel, so it's a stomp

 

[Da3ggman]

It’s on Naofumi’s page in the durability section cause he’s the shield hero kek

Fair, I missed that.

That’s what I’m saying. Plenty of verses from novels have accepted calcs for feats where very little is known about the object that was destroyed.

Give me an example of this happening anywhere where they ONLY specify how badly an object was damaged. As in, it can’t say how long it took, how many attacks it took, what attack was used, etc. That’s what I have a problem with. We only have a whopping 1 variable in an equation that should have plenty more than that.

Later. Im still on mobile.

Understandable.

The Luffy that fought Lucci isn’t the one that fought Enel. I think saying she’s as skilled as that Luffy is a much harder question and it’s not an argument I would make.

K then, how about Luffy’s ability to perfectly replicate moves with completely different origins by only seeing them once, and not only that, but then improving on them? He does that plenty before and after Enel.

Back in the day, links and especially references to every single power wasn’t as popular as it is now (started working on the pages in like 2019 or something) lol, if a CRT isn’t required I could look through my notes for the verses and fight the references to list them.

Wait, these were made back then? Nvm then lol, I thought these were somewhat recent. You should still get those profiles fixed though, kinda a pain to debate when they’re as barren as a desert.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

iirc, that's approximately the difference between him and Rob Lucci at the time of their fight. Could be wrong, and if I am, I can provide plenty of other arguments in favor of his skill.

I think you are referring to luffy vs kuro fight

 

[Kachon123]

Enel FRA