Elden Ring's Top Tier should be straight Tier 4 and not just "possibly".

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

This blog (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Emirp_sumitpo/Elden_Ring_Large_Star_level_explanation) proves that Radahn also stopped the movement of actual stars, not just meteorites. There are blatant statements in this blog that talk about "constellations", which is a term we use to talk about stars, and the illustrations on the Preceptor's blue outfit represent suns, and the description says that the outfit also represents their movements and that they have been stopped (Everything I say is in the blog).

Some people may try to contradict this by saying that the stars in ER are just alien creatures like the Astel, and therefore we cannot give this feat a Tier 4, but that is completely false and a misunderstanding of the lore:

To begin with, the Astel are evolved forms of the Fallingstar Beast, and we call them "stars"/"fallingstars" because they come from space, they are directly born from meteorites:
"Katana forged from meteoric ore to dispatch lifeforms born of falling stars."

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Meteoric+Ore+Blade

Also the simple fact that Astel is called "malformed star" proves that it is not a normal star, so saying that all the stars in ER are like Astel is also wrong. He is even explicitly described as a "falling star":

"A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. A falling star of ill omen."

Remembrance of the Naturalborn | Elden Ring Wiki

Remembrance of the Naturalborn Consumable Guide: Where to find Remembrance of the Naturalborn in Elden Ring, Uses, Map, Farming, Crafting, Tips and Tricks.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Is Astel is called a "malformed star" because, well, it's a creepy creature that comes from space, it's an evolved form of a fallingstar beast that was born from a meteorite. That's it.

IRL we also call meteorites shooting/falling stars, but does that mean that the stars in our universe are all meteorites? Of course not.

So there should not be "Mountain level, possibly/likely Large Star Level" in the profiles, but just a straight Large Star level.

UPDATE
NEW/BETTER ARGUMENTS

The stars of the night sky guided fate (not some stars, but THE stars):
"Once upon a time, the stars of the night sky guided fate, and this is a recollection of those times."

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Celestial+Dew

So the stars that we see in the sky in the game () guided fate.

The movement of the stars is drawn on Preceptor Set's clothes, and the stars drawn on them are suns, and the description also tells us that the stars no longer guide fate, implying that it was the suns which guided fate:
"Large hat with the movements of the stars drawn on the inside of the brim [...] Glintstone sorcerers are the descendants of astrologers,
a fact that the Carians remain of aware of.
Even if their fate has been long severed from the stars."

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Preceptor's+Big+Hat

A better view of the suns drawn on the outfit: (31:50)
So it was the suns that guided fate, not meteorites or comets, but SUNS, actual stars.

Iji and Sellen tell us that the constellations no longer guide the fate of House Caria:

Sellen
"The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family.
And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations,
and in a crushing victory,
arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die,
the stars would resume their movement.
And so, too, would Ranni's destiny."

Iji
"The fate of the Carian royal family is guided by the stars.
As is the fate of Lady Ranni,
first heir in the Carian royal line. But General Radahn is the conqueror of the stars.
Who stood up to the swirling constellations,
halting their movement in a smashing victory. And so, if General Radahn were defeated,
the stars would once again resume their movement."

So Iji and Sellen tell us exactly the same thing as the description of the Preceptor Set: The movement of the stars, the true stars, guided the fate of House Caria, but that is no longer the case since a long time ago, but in addition to that they tell us that it was Radahn who stopped the movement of the stars. So Radahn stopped the movement of thousands actual stars, all the ones we see in the sky when we play.

Ymir tells us that living beings began as stardust:
"I am a glintstone sorcerer. We study the stars, and examine life therein. Are you familiar with our findings? Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies."

What Ymir says is a reference to that:
"'It is totally 100% true: nearly all the elements in the human body were made in a star and many have come through several supernovas."
"Most of the elements of our bodies were formed in stars over the course of billions of years and multiple star lifetimes."

Are we made of stardust?

Stars that go supernova are responsible for creating many of the elements of the periodic table, including those that make up the human body.

www.nhm.ac.uk

This means that the stars of ER, in addition to having magical properties (blue/green glintstones come from stars), have the same properties as the stars IRL: they are luminous giant ball of gas.

Radahn's feat is 100% 4-B.

VOTES:

High 4-C, possibly 4-B: @Ser Hakim Wayne

High 4-C: @Ser Hakim Dayne, @Qawsedf234, @Planck69, @Chritin, @Snek

7-A, likely High 4-C: @Qawsedf234, @Planck69, @Mr. Bambu, @Chritin, @Blackcurrant91, @ArkhamDC06

7-A, possibly High 4-C: @Mr. Bambu

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

From the last thread the main issue is that the cosmology of Elden Ring is notably different from ours, especially when considering the Microcosm stuff. Which is why Bambu and others weren't for a straight High 4-C rating.

While I'm not against it in principal, technically speaking nothing you provided concretely proves that the constellations are Gas Stars rather than demoic astral creatures.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

From the last thread the main issue is that the cosmology of Elden Ring is notably different from ours, especially when considering the Microcosm stuff.

What does the Microcosm have to do with it?

While I'm not against it in principal, technically speaking nothing you provided concretely proves that the constellations are Gas Stars rather than demoic astral creatures.

The glintstones come from stars, so the latter are not stellar creatures, and as I explain in my post, Astel is described as a "malformed star", so it is not a normal star, and a "falling star ", so it's a meteorite. Saying that stars in ER are creatures is like saying that irl stars are meteorites.

Falling stars beasts/astels are called "stars" because they come from space, they are born from meteorites, that's it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What does the Microcosm have to do with it?

That the entire space of The Lands Between is a small bubble and we see another said bubble in Ranni's ending. So we have no idea how large the total volume of the cosmology is.

The glintstones come from stars, so the latter are not stellar creatures, and as I explain in my post,

They come from stars, but that doesn't mean those stars are giant balls of gas. School of Graven Mage for example are sorcerers who try to become stars and end up as a ball, which means a success story would just be a ball but in outer space.

Falling stars beasts/astels are called "stars" because they come from space, they are born from meteorites, that's it.

I mean, they're just a lot of stuff weighing it down

It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.

One of the glintstone sorceries that manipulates gravitational forces. Fires a gravitational projectile that pulls in enemies before finally exploding. Charging increases potency. Said to have originated in the lightless dark far beyond—the home of the fallingstar beasts.

A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. An falling star of ill omen.

But the most important anti-feat would be the Starscourge Heriloom

The mightiest hero of the demigods confronted the falling stars alone—and thus did he crush them, his conquest sealing the very fate of the stars.

Where it states explicitly that Radahn confronted "The Fallingstars" rather than just "The Stars"

 

[Chritin]

This blog (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Emirp_sumitpo/Elden_Ring_Large_Star_level_explanation) proves that Radahn also stopped the movement of actual stars, not just meteorites. There are blatant statements in this blog that talk about "constellations", which is a term we use to talk about stars, and the illustrations on the Preceptor's blue outfit represent suns, and the description says that the outfit also represents their movements and that they have been stopped (Everything I say is in the blog).

Some people may try to contradict this by saying that the stars in ER are just alien creatures like the Astel, and therefore we cannot give this feat a Tier 4, but that is completely false and a misunderstanding of the lore:

To begin with, the Astel are evolved forms of the Fallingstar Beast, and we call them "stars"/"fallingstars" because they come from space, they are directly born from meteorites:
"Katana forged from meteoric ore to dispatch lifeforms born of falling stars."

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Meteoric+Ore+Blade

Also the simple fact that Astel is called "malformed star" proves that it is not a normal star, so saying that all the stars in ER are like Astel is also wrong. He is even explicitly described as a "falling star":

"A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. A falling star of ill omen."

Remembrance of the Naturalborn | Elden Ring Wiki

Remembrance of the Naturalborn Consumable Guide: Where to find Remembrance of the Naturalborn in Elden Ring, Uses, Map, Farming, Crafting, Tips and Tricks.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Is Astel is called a "malformed star" because, well, it's a creepy creature that comes from space, it's an evolved form of a fallingstar beast that was born from a meteorite. That's it.

IRL we also call meteorites shooting/falling stars, but does that mean that the stars in our universe are all meteorites? Of course not.

So there should not be "Mountain level, possibly/likely Large Star Level" in the profiles, but just a straight Large Star level.

While I basically fully agree with everything here and believe that Elden Ring characters should be straight up High 4-C, I do also understand many peoples concerns over putting them as much. However, I think I good compromise would be changing “possibly” to “likely”, since there is a lot of credence to the fact there are actual stars in the Elden Ring cosmology.

 

[Qawsedf234]

However, I think I good compromise would be changing “possibly” to “likely”,

I think that's fine

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That

I think you overthinking it The microcosm that we see on the Great Beyond Staff and with the Fleeting Microcosm incantation is just a representation of the observable universe, not the universe into a bubble

They come from stars, but that doesn't mean those stars are giant balls of gas

That means they are giant balls of magic instead of gas

I mean, they're just a lot of stuff weighing it down

Wdym?

Where it states explicitly that Radahn confronted "The Fallingstars" rather than just "The Stars"

Yes, but Iji, Sellen and the Preceptor Set confirm that the feat also concerns actual stars. So Radahn stopped meteorites and stars

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

While I basically fully agree with everything here and believe that Elden Ring characters should be straight up High 4-C, I do also understand many peoples concerns over putting them as much. However, I think I good compromise would be changing “possibly” to “likely”, since there is a lot of credence to the fact there are actual stars in the Elden Ring cosmology.

Yeah it's fine

 

[Planck69]

To me at least, it seems clear that the term "star" isn't a one-size fits all and can mean both regular stars or meteors/cosmic creatures depending on use. In the context of Radhan's feat, the "constellations" being anything else would take proof of such a thing rather than otherwise, since it comes of the same as hearing the term "shooting star" in real life and extrapolating all stars as like that when there's constant stellar iconography associated with them. Same with the term "microcosm", fundamentally it's a representation of our cosmos and the rupture that created all beings that Ymir talks about is very likely the Big Bang.

I'm alright with a full rating. Failing that, a "likely".

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think you overthinking it The microcosm that we see on the Great Beyond Staff and with the Fleeting Microcosm incantation is just a representation of the observable universe, not the universe into a bubble

A microcosm is a smaller representation of something greater. It can't be showing the observable universe unless they're embedded within an even larger universe.

Yes, but Iji, Sellen and the Preceptor Set confirm that the feat also concerns actual stars

They said he crushed the stars and stopped fate. But the Heirloom clarified that he fought Fallingstars. Astel is a Fallingstar of ill omen or bad fate. So fate being dictated by astral beings has precedence in my view.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

They said he crushed the stars and stopped fate. But the Heirloom clarified that he fought Fallingstars.

Sellen and Iji use the word "constellation", and the Preceptor Set has illustrations of suns. This proves that actual stars were also involved in Radahn's feat, not just meteorites.

Astel is a Fallingstar of ill omen or bad fate. So fate being dictated by astral beings has precedence in my view.

This is just your interpretation, "ill omen" can also refer to the fact that Astel destroyed an Eternal City and is therefore an "ill omen" to the inhabitants of that city, not that Astel literally controls fate like the stars. And even if it is the case, that the fallingstar beasts/astel also affects fate, how would that contradict the fact that actual stars exist in ER and that they are also involved in Radahn's feat? One does not contradict the other

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sellen and Iji use the word "constellation",

Which can mean a collection of astral being in this cosmology, rather than a group of stars. The fact that once Radahn's grip on the stars end, they instantly launch forward means they could be far closer than an actual star.

the Preceptor Set has illustrations of suns.

The set has illustrations of the movement of stars. But that again doesn't make them 4-C going by the previous threads.

And even if it is the case, that the fallingstar beasts/astel also affects fate, how would that contradict the fact that actual stars exist in ER and that they are also involved in Radahn's feat?

It wouldn't necessarily, but that's why they have a split rating in the first place. Because it was argued it could be interpreted one of two ways and both were valid.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Which can mean a collection of astral being in this cosmology, rather than a group of stars.

Again, fallinstar beasts/astels are born from meteorites, and meteorites do not form constellations, stars do.
Purple glintstones and gravitational magic come from meteorites (this is why the Fallingstars beast/astel and the Alabaster/Onyx Lord practice gravity magic, they were born from meteorites), and green/blue glintstones and Raya Lucaria magic come from stars, which are giant balls of magic.

The fact that once Radahn's grip on the stars end, they instantly launch forward means they could be far closer than an actual star.

What we see in the cutscene after the Radahn boss fight are shooting stars, aka meteorites. We see one literally fall into the Lands Between, Blaidd even calls it "falling star". But the fact that Radahn stopped the movement of meteorites does not contradict the other fact, that he also stopped that of literal stars.

The set has illustrations of the movement of stars. But that again doesn't make them 4-C going by the previous threads.

The stars illustrated on the set are suns, they are balls with branches, as the sun is often represented.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Again, fallinstar beasts/astels are born from meteorites, and meteorites do not form constellations, stars do.

In the real world sure, but not in Elden Ring. The fact that reality itself is a Microcosom is itself evidence that they're not similar.

green/blue glintstones and Raya Lucaria magic come from stars, which are giant balls of magic.

All magic comes from the study of stars. Even Glintstone, which features a spell that just summons stars to air strike people

The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an
ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status.

Summons a dark cloud of stars overhead. Shortly after, the cloud
will release a violent deluge of star rain. This sorcery can be cast
while in motion. Charging increases potency.

Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the
primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the
stars' amber rained down on this land

Additionally Glintstones are called shooting stars

Enchanted work of craft made in tandem with Full Moon Crossbow. The tip is embedded with glintstone.

Like a shooting star, these bolts leave a beautiful trail when fired. Deals magic damage.

Gravity Magic is just an aspect of Glinstone Sorcery in general

The stars illustrated on the set are suns, they are balls with branches, as the sun is often represented.

That wouldn't make them 4-C with the above. Or at least that's how it was argued previously.

We can ask @Mr. Bambu and @DarkGrath to comment, since they were the primary ones who wanted the rating split / didn't want to include Radahn's star stuff at all.

Personally I'm fine with changing "possibly" to "likely", but I don't think enough has changed to replace the original thread decision.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This blog (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Emirp_sumitpo/Elden_Ring_Large_Star_level_explanation) proves that Radahn also stopped the movement of actual stars, not just meteorites. There are blatant statements in this blog that talk about "constellations", which is a term we use to talk about stars, and the illustrations on the Preceptor's blue outfit represent suns, and the description says that the outfit also represents their movements and that they have been stopped (Everything I say is in the blog).

Some people may try to contradict this by saying that the stars in ER are just alien creatures like the Astel, and therefore we cannot give this feat a Tier 4, but that is completely false and a misunderstanding of the lore:

To begin with, the Astel are evolved forms of the Fallingstar Beast, and we call them "stars"/"fallingstars" because they come from space, they are directly born from meteorites:
"Katana forged from meteoric ore to dispatch lifeforms born of falling stars."

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Meteoric+Ore+Blade

Also the simple fact that Astel is called "malformed star" proves that it is not a normal star, so saying that all the stars in ER are like Astel is also wrong. He is even explicitly described as a "falling star":

"A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. A falling star of ill omen."

Remembrance of the Naturalborn | Elden Ring Wiki

Remembrance of the Naturalborn Consumable Guide: Where to find Remembrance of the Naturalborn in Elden Ring, Uses, Map, Farming, Crafting, Tips and Tricks.

eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com

Is Astel is called a "malformed star" because, well, it's a creepy creature that comes from space, it's an evolved form of a fallingstar beast that was born from a meteorite. That's it.

IRL we also call meteorites shooting/falling stars, but does that mean that the stars in our universe are all meteorites? Of course not.

So there should not be "Mountain level, possibly/likely Large Star Level" in the profiles, but just a straight Large Star level.

It does not prove without issue. This is why it is possibly. We have had this discussion in the past- perhaps not you specifically, but they certainly exist. There is countless evidence that the stars they are referring to are not outright traditional stars.

Radahn's "star" only caused a small crater (the 7-A feat)- proving, in my view, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are not full stars. Mixed with the very creatures being referred to as stars, I have never even seen an individual outside of this specific wiki talk about the feat thinking they were literal, full, gaseous stars. To claim that this is concrete is to ignore countless instances of context.

Disagree, always will disagree. It's possibly at best.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In the real world sure, but not in Elden Ring

In Elden Ring too, because there is nothing that says the opposite. Fallingstar beasts/astels are not stars, they are living beings born from meteorites (Source: Meteoric ore blade). The stars of ER are giant balls of magic, not giant Lovecraftian insects.

The fact that reality itself is a Microcosom is itself evidence that they're not similar.

And? Meteorites, comets, stars, constellations, star clusters, planets and moons exist in ER, the only difference is that they are magical. Saying that destroying a planet or a star in ER is not Planet or Star lvl because the cosmology on a larger scale is different is crazy

All magic comes from the study of stars. Even Glintstone, which features a spell that just summons stars to air strike people

Glintstone magic comes from glintstones which themselves come from the stars. Sellen and the descriptions of primeval sorceries explain this clearly.
Purple glintstones and gravity magic, which is not used by Raya Lucaria, come from meteorites as explained in the meteorite fragments in the game.

Additionally Glintstones are called shooting stars

No, the description says that the spell acts LIKE a shooting star, not that glintstones are shooting stars. Like IRL, shooting stars are also the name given to meteorites in ER, and meteorites are the origins of purple glintstones, gravity magic, fallingstar beasts and alabaster/onyx lords.

Gravity Magic is just an aspect of Glinstone Sorcery in general

Gravity magic is called "glintstone sorcery" because they come from meteorites which are also called "shooting stars"/"stars" in the game because they come from space.

The whole deal with ER's space elements called "stars" has caused people to misunderstand this aspect of the lore in the fandom and over thinking it in a weird way.

That wouldn't make them 4-C with the above. Or at least that's how it was argued previously.

That would make them at least 4-B as you said in the discussion thread

 

[Qawsedf234]

Fallingstar beasts/astels are not stars

They are stars. In Elden Ring they call anything in space a star

The stars of ER are giant balls of magic, not giant Lovecraftian insects.

The main issue being is that even if that is universally true, that would still mean that them being 4-C is questionable. Since Magic =/= Plasma.

Saying that destroying a planet or a star in ER is not Planet or Star lvl because the cosmology on a larger scale is different is crazy

I mean we know for sure that destroying a Moon doesn't need to be Moon level, since Astel destroyed the Moon of the Nox and crashed it into the planet, but that didn't cause 5-C levels of damage.

Glintstone magic comes from glintstones which themselves come from the stars. Sellen and the descriptions of primeval sorceries explain this clearly.

Glintstones are called shooting stars and star dusts and also fall from the heavens. The difference between them and meteors are the aspects of magic that they represent rather than the origin themselves.

No, the description says that the spell acts LIKE a shooting star, not that glintstones are shooting stars

Other spells call Glintstones shooting stars

Legendary sorcery devised by Lusat, primeval sorcerers.

Fires twelve dark shooting stars that pursue the target. This sorcery can be cast while in motion. Charging increases potency.

When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken.

Its why the comparison is made. They all come from space.

That would make them at least 4-B as you said in the discussion thread

I think the most you'd get is High 4-C, since Radahn at best only effected like 640 to 1,600 total stars. I've never seen a count get him to baseline 4-B.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

There is countless evidence that the stars they are referring to are not outright traditional stars.

The only evidence that proves that the stars of ER are not like IRL is that they are the origins of glintstones, that's the only one, and that just means that they are giant balls of magic instead of gas.

Radahn's "star" only caused a small crater (the 7-A feat)- proving, in my view, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are not full stars

This is because the “stars” we see in the feat are meteorites. Radahn also stopped actual stars as the blog proves. Meteorites and stars were both held in stasis by Radahn.

Mixed with the very creatures being referred to as stars, I have never even seen an individual outside of this specific wiki talk about the feat thinking they were literal, full, gaseous stars.

Creatures come from meteorites, not stars. The stars in ER are magic balls, not creatures.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The only evidence that proves that the stars of ER are not like IRL is that they are the origins of glintstones, that's the only one, and that just means that they are giant balls of magic instead of gas.

Radahn's own star visibly not doing High 4-C damage, which is a direct disqualifier per the rules of this wiki

The countless things called "stars" consistently that are visibly not stars in any traditional sense

The only thing that would make this Tier 4 is if you ignore the context and take the words at face value. "Stars". In the void of all context, it is compelling. In the light of context, it is flimsy and weak. It requires us to interpret things as they are in real life rather than how they are portrayed in ER. I am in no mood to entertain this 'the only evidence' chatter, this thread offers nothing new over what the last thread did. No.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

They are stars. In Elden Ring they call anything in space a star

No, they are meteorites. They are called "stars" for the same reason meteorites are called "shooting stars" irl.

Glintstones are called shooting stars and star dusts and also fall from the heavens

Glintstone are not called shooting stars (nor stardust), it's the blue projectiles they cast that they are, because they look like shooting stars. I’s as simple as that.

The difference between them and meteors are the aspects of magic that they represent rather than the origin themselves

Purple glintstones and gravity magic come from meteorites, it's explicitly written in the game.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The only thing that would make this Tier 4 is if you ignore the context and take the words at face value. "Stars". In the void of all context, it is compelling. In the light of context, it is flimsy and weak. It requires us to interpret things as they are in real life rather than how they are portrayed in ER. I am in no mood to entertain this 'the only evidence' chatter, this thread offers nothing new over what the last thread did. No.

IRL we call meteorites "shooting stars", does that mean that all the stars irl are therefore rocks? Absolutely not. It's the same for ER

 

[Qawsedf234]

No, they are meteorites.

They're also stars. They're called both things since anything from space is called a star. Even Metyr is called a star because she also comes from space.

Glintstone are not called shooting stars (nor stardust)

They are, since Glintstones are just crystalized vital energy of other objects in space.

Our powers draw upon the powers embedded in glintstone,
but what is the nature of such power?

Glintstone is the amber of the cosmos,
golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life and houses its vitality,
while Glintstone contains residual life.

And thus, the vitality of the stars.

It should not be forgotten that glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars and the life therein.

They're shooting stars/comets.

Purple glintstones and gravity magic come from meteorites, it's explicitly written in the game.

They're also stars. You're thinking they can only be A or B, when they can be both because they're A subcategory B.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

They're also stars. They're called both things since anything from space is called a star. Even Metyr is called a star because she also comes from space.

They're also stars. You're thinking they can only be A or B, when they can be both because they're A subcategory B.

They are "stars", not literal stars. It's the same thing as old astrology irl where all celestial bodies (meteorites, comets, planets, moons, etc.) were called "stars". It's the same thing as irl when we call meteorites "shooting stars". Are you calling planets and meteorites literal stars irl???
Literal, full, actual stars like ours exists in ER (Source: Preceptor Set) but they are magic, and Radahn held back their movements.

They are, since Glintstones are just crystalized vital energy of other objects in space.

It's true, but they don't all come from the same celestial objects. Purple glintstones come from meteorites, and blue/green glintstones come from actual stars, and these glintstones fell on the Lands Between after a star cluster was destroyed (Source: Stars of Ruins and Founding Rain of Stars )

hey're shooting stars/comets.

Absolutely not. Glintstones are fragments of crystal, and these crystals come from actual stars. The words "shooting stars"/"comets" are used to refer to the projectiles that glintstone spells launch, as the projectiles mimic the movements of shooting stars and comets. It's straightforward.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I think the most you'd get is High 4-C, since Radahn at best only effected like 640 to 1,600 total stars. I've never seen a count get him to baseline 4-B.

It's because you base your calc on the "stars" that we see in the post-Radahn fight cutscene, which makes no sense because what we see in the sky in this cutscene are meteorites (, it's the same thing that we see in the cutscene), not literal stars. The description of the Celestial Dew says that the stars of the night sky affect fate. ALL the stars seen in the sky above us in Liurnia at night were affected by Radahn.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They are "stars", not literal stars

They're all lumped within the same category in Elden Ring and we don't know which type of star controls fate. Considering all the stars Radahn held in stasis lurched forward once he died, that means they're close to TLB. Arguably implying they're comets, shooting stars or astral beings rather than balls of Plasma.

Literal, full, actual stars like ours exists in ER (Source: Preceptor Set) but they are magic

You're shooting yourself in the foot here with this argument. Because if they're purely magic that means you have to prove that magic has mass, otherwise they're energy and not in 4-C in the first place scaling wise.

Purple glintstones come from meteorites, and blue/green glintstones come from actual stars, and these glintstones fell on the Lands Between after a star cluster was destroyed

By your own admission both sources come down from outerspace and are called stars by the people in-universe. You're again confusing the point. There's a greater category of "Stars" in universe that's just anything from space, that then narrows down to specifics like shooting stars, comets, meteors, astral beings and star-stars. But all of them are still called stars.

The words "shooting stars"/"comets" are used to refer to the projectiles that glintstone spells launch,

Glintstones impact TLB as shooting stars or comets and then grow from there.

ALL the stars seen in the sky above us in Liurnia at night were affected by Radahn.

If you want to bump the High 4-C end up you can do that I guess since you can argue 2k-4k stars visible from TLB. But ultimately I'm not seeing anything presented that really goes against the previously established agreement of two ends, one for meteors and one for IRL stars.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

They're all lumped within the same category in Elden Ring and we don't know which type of star controls fate.

We know, thanks to the Celestial Dew, all the stars visible in the night sky control fate, and the Preceptor Set shows that the literal stars do too.

Considering all the stars Radahn held in stasis lurched forward once he died, that means they're close to TLB. Arguably implying they're comets, shooting stars or astral beings rather than balls of Plasma.

Yes, all the "stars" we see moving in the sky in the cutscene are meteorites/comets, but lorewise Radahn didn't just held back rock, but also literal stars like ours.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here with this argument. Because if they're purely magic that means you have to prove that magic has mass, otherwise they're energy and not in 4-C in the first place scaling wise.

I've been using this argument from the beginning, but ultimately yes, I think this feat shouldn't be Tier 4, because the actual stars in ER are giant magic balls, not giant gas balls.

By your own admission both sources come down from outerspace and are called stars by the people in-universe. You're again confusing the point. There's a greater category of "Stars" in universe that's just anything from space, that then narrows down to specifics like shooting stars, comets, meteors, astral beings and star-stars. But all of them are still called stars.

I'm not confusing anything. I know all space objects in ER are called stars, that's what I've been saying all along, and I'm saying it's the same irl with old astrology. But whether it's IRL or in ER, you have to differentiate "stars" (all celestial bodies) from real stars. Also, a minor thing, astral beings are born from meteorites, so there are no astral beings in space

Glintstones impact TLB as shooting stars or comets and then grow from there.

Yes but they are not literally meteorites/comets, they are crystals that fell from the sky after the destruction of a large star cluster.

If you want to bump the High 4-C end up you can do that I guess since you can argue 2k-4k stars visible from TLB. But ultimately I'm not seeing anything presented that really goes against the previously established agreement of two ends, one for meteors and one for IRL stars.

The "stars" that move in the cutscenes are absolutely not literal stars so it's wrong, but the literal stars in ER are made of magic and not plasma anyway so it's better to delete Tier 4 and just stay on the meteorites

 

[Qawsedf234]

The "stars" that move in the cutscenes are absolutely not literal stars so it's wrong, but the literal stars in ER are made of magic and not plasma anyway so it's better to delete Tier 4 and just stay on the meteorites

s, I think this feat shouldn't be Tier 4, because the actual stars in ER are giant magic balls, not giant gas balls.

So there should not be "Mountain level, possibly/likely Large Star Level" in the profiles, but just a straight Large Star level.

So I'm going to ignore the rest of your response and just focus here. These sentences cannot all be true with each other.

So either you're saying Tier 4 is utterly invalid can't be used or that they are comparable to IRL stars and should be High 4-C. Both arguments cannot be true at once.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

So I'm going to ignore the rest of your response and just focus here. These sentences cannot all be true with each other.

So either you're saying Tier 4 is utterly invalid can't be used or that they are comparable to IRL stars and should be High 4-C. Both arguments cannot be true at once.

Dude, I said that ultimately it's in no way Tier 4, so that means I changed my mind.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Tier 4 is utterly invalid c

Same thing for the 4-A btw

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

If you've changed your mind why are you bumping this thread? If you think the high end is now completely invalid why not just make a new CRT instead of bumping one where the purpose is to make the high end the only rating.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

If you've changed your mind why are you bumping this thread? If you think the high end is now completely invalid why not just make a new CRT instead of bumping one where the purpose is to make the high end the only rating.

Indeed

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Ymirs dialogue all but confirms that Lands Between are universal in size and also that Stars are responsible for the creation of the elements in the same way they are in real life, in that all elements where forged in the heart of the star. This would be impossible if there werent literally stars.

"I, to am a glimstone sorcerer. We study the stars, and examine the life therein. Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies. We, too, are children of the greater Will. Is that not divine? Is that not sublime?“

This is where the 'Greater Will is the universe' theory comes from.

Elden Beast should be Low 2-C anyway for embodying and maintaining concepts across an entire timeline and being the opposite of the Chaos Flame that will consume the timeline but hey thats just me.

 

[DMUA]

The stars of ER are giant balls of magic, not giant Lovecraftian insects.

Orbs of magic wouldn't have a GBE. That's based on mass and gravity, energy doesn't have any of these inherently, if you are actually observing this it's not a Tier 4 feat.

Where it states explicitly that Radahn confronted "The Fallingstars" rather than just "The Stars"

This bit is also pretty damning

Ymirs dialogue all but confirms that Lands Between are universal in size and also that Stars are responsible for the creation of the elements in the same way they are in real life, in that all elements where forged in the heart of the star. This would be impossible if there werent literally stars.

This is where the 'Greater Will is the universe' theory comes from.

This should be posted, though