Eida vs Goku

[ImmortalDread]

So I was not wrong either. The match is a stomp. It can be closed.

 

[Maitreya12]

For the first part that is wrong and you will know if you read the series,
1. When code was fighting against kawaki he brought out daemon to reflect the attack and the attack reflected, meaning 1 you don’t have to have killing intent towards daemon for the attack to be reflected and 2 daemon does not need to touch the person that is using the attack just anybody is fine hence why I said daemon and eida holding hands.
2 eida ability works on an instinctual/unconscious level so just relying on ultra instint wouldnot work because it invoives instinct ( @Purgy ].
3. Lol flicking is finger is intended to be an attack his very nature and instinct will fight it his mind will break from him tormenting himself. Lol the first symptoms came as a result of trying to resist it if he countinues his mind will be damaged and he will still be under the ability. Honestly his only option is having resistance to the ability itself.

1) But the attack still has to be directed at the person. So in the example, Daemon is touching Code who Kawaki is attacking hence the attack is reflected. So what happens if Goku’s only attacking Daemon from a distance, or if he simply attacks the ground beneath Daemon and not Daemon himself

Furthermore, it seems that “killing intent” in general is a prerequisite in order for this ability to work. The killing intent doesn’t have to be directed at Daemon, but it still needs to be there regardless. So if you attack with zero killing intent, then the attack will not be reflected.

2) Your comments earlier about the ability seem conflicting with the usage of ultra instinct itself. You say that you need to actually see Eida for her ability to work, but what happens if you simply shut out all your perceptions of who’s in front of you. Your subconsciously fall in love with Eida as you gaze upon her, but if you no longer have any perceptions of Eida, then you should still be able to attack her. Which ultra instinct can make use of.

3) Flicking his finger can simply be a slight movement of his extremities. It having the effect of killing Eida is simply a result of the insane gap between Eida and goku but goku can just flick his fingers in general and Eida would die. So there doesn’t even need to be an attack either way. Also again if the mind break isn’t instant then he can simply experience those minor fevers or headaches before his mind breaks to flick his fingers. He can literally just flick his fingers and she’s dead and since the mind break isn’t instant, this can be done without goku succumbing to any severe effects unless actually demonstrated.

As well as the fact that Goku could simply also resist the mind breaking as well since similar things have already been resisted in dragon ball. So even then it wouldn’t work.

 

[Samlex1234]

1) But the attack still has to be directed at the person. So in the example, Daemon is touching Code who Kawaki is attacking hence the attack is reflected. So what happens if Goku’s only attacking Daemon from a distance, or if he simply attacks the ground beneath Daemon and not Daemon himself

Furthermore, it seems that “killing intent” in general is a prerequisite in order for this ability to work. The killing intent doesn’t have to be directed at Daemon, but it still needs to be there regardless. So if you attack with zero killing intent, then the attack will not be reflected.

2) Your comments earlier about the ability seem conflicting with the usage of ultra instinct itself. You say that you need to actually see Eida for her ability to work, but what happens if you simply shut out all your perceptions of who’s in front of you. Your subconsciously fall in love with Eida as you gaze upon her, but if you no longer have any perceptions of Eida, then you should still be able to attack her. Which ultra instinct can make use of.

3) Flicking his finger can simply be a slight movement of his extremities. It having the effect of killing Eida is simply a result of the insane gap between Eida and goku but goku can just flick his fingers in general and Eida would die. So there doesn’t even need to be an attack either way. Also again if the mind break isn’t instant then he can simply experience those minor fevers or headaches before his mind breaks to flick his fingers. He can literally just flick his fingers and she’s dead and since the mind break isn’t instant, this can be done without goku succumbing to any severe effects unless actually demonstrated.

As well as the fact that Goku could simply also resist the mind breaking as well since similar things have already been resisted in dragon ball. So even then it wouldn’t work.

No again you don’t need killing intention the ability when activaTed serves to protect daemon so just shoot an attack what so ever reflects back most especially if daemon is in the area. so Automatically reflecation no matter what , and stronger reflection when the intent is stronger. If a per thinks about about attacking daemon they will die unless they can tank there own attack.

i can comment on the other parts but honestly I don’t care anymore I already conceded.

 

[Maitreya12]

No again you don’t need killing intention the ability when activaTed serves to protect daemon so just shoot an attack what so ever reflects back most especially if daemon is in the area. so Automatically reflecation no matter what , and stronger reflection when the intent is stronger. If a per thinks about about attacking daemon they will die unless they can tank there own attack.

i can comment on the other parts but honestly I don’t care anymore I already conceded.

Everything about his page in detailing his ability talks about how killing intent is directed at him and the stronger that killing intent is, the stronger his reflection ability is.

Even if the killing intent isn’t directed at him specifically and another person Daemon is in contact with, the fact that it is still present in the attack indicates the killing intent is still what’s being reflected. In other words, if someone can attack without any killing intent, then there’s no evidence that Daemon can reflect that person’s ability back at them,

It’s a pretty good haxed based ability, but I just think it’s relatively easy to get around with regards to certain methods.

 

[Samlex1234]

Though with Eida and Daemon being kind of broken I’m thinking of a match against another pretty well known broken character. Hmm

Hold up.

 

[Maitreya12]

I’m confused about what you’re trying to show me here since this says the exact same thing I was saying.

As explained, the opponents attacks are reflected because of the killing intent in them. And the stronger that killing intent is, the more potent the reflection ability works. Hence the ability is entirely based on the killing intent of the foe.

Ergo, there’s no evidence he can reflect attacks with zero killing intent in them.

 

[Samlex1234]

I’m confused about what you’re trying to show me here since this says the exact same thing I was saying.

As explained, the opponents attacks are reflected because of the killing intent in them. And the stronger that killing intent is, the more potent the reflection ability works. Hence the ability is entirely based on the killing intent of the foe.

Ergo, there’s no evidence he can reflect attacks with zero killing intent in them.

okay will goku or beerus attack with zero killing intent meaning not try to cause any damage what so ever?

 

[Maitreya12]

okay will goku or beerus attack with zero killing intent meaning not try to cause any damage what so ever?

Who says attacking with zero killing intent means to not cause any damage at all?

Attacking with zero killing intent means just that. You can still attack a person, even kill that person but have zero killing intent in your attacks.

To give a kind of example of what I’m talking about. In my hero academia, Deku has a similar ability where he can literally sense the killing intent of any opponent trying to attack him.

But this danger sense has zero effect on a character named Toga since despite her literally trying to stab Deku and is killing people around him. His danger sense doesn’t go off because she’s not attacking based on any type of malice or killing intent at all, it’s just attraction. Cause she’s insane.

Same thing can be said only in a different context where instead of just being crazy, what if Goku simply clears his mind out of all types of emotions and intent whatsoever as is the case of ultra instinct.

 

[Samlex1234]

Who says attacking with zero killing intent means to not cause any damage at all?

Attacking with zero killing intent means just that. You can still attack a person, even kill that person but have zero killing intent in your attacks.

To give a kind of example of what I’m talking about. In my hero academia, Deku has a similar ability where he can literally sense the killing intent of any opponent trying to attack him.

But this danger sense has zero effect on a character named Toga since despite her literally trying to stab Deku and is killing people around him. His danger sense doesn’t go off because she’s not attacking based on any type of malice or killing intent at all, it’s just attraction. Cause she’s insane.

Same thing can be said only in a different context where instead of just being crazy, what if Goku simply clears his mind out of all types of emotions and intent whatsoever as is the case of ultra instinct.

wait wasn’t that because of she was erasing her presence?
intent to win no matter what the fact that the opponent has to be defeated is enough to be a killing intent. How will you kill someone without intending to kill.

 

[Maitreya12]

wait wasn’t that because of she was erasing her presence?
intent to win no matter what the fact that the opponent has to be defeated is enough to be a killing intent. How will you kill someone without intending to kill.

Nope. Her erasing her presence has no bearing on Deku’s ability to sense her killing intent since he can sense people’s killing intent without having a person’s presence around him. Plus it was directly stated that the danger sense wasn’t working because there was no killing intent in her attacks, despite coming at Deku with a knife. Because to her, stabbing someone=loving someone. So no killing intent there at all.

By multiple means, it is fiction after all. One could simply be by having a completely clear mind. Thereby all your actions and intent are null inside your mind since there’s no emotion or intent to any of your actions.

Or in the case with Toga, her mind is so warped that when she’s hurting someone by stabbing them. There’s no killing intent to her actions because she’s doing it out of pure affection and love.

 

[Samlex1234]

Nope. Her erasing her presence has no bearing on Deku’s ability to sense her killing intent since he can sense people’s killing intent without having a person’s presence around him. Plus it was directly stated that the danger sense wasn’t working because there was no killing intent in her attacks, despite coming at Deku with a knife. Because to her, stabbing someone=loving someone. So no killing intent there at all.

By multiple means, it is fiction after all. One could simply be by having a completely clear mind. Thereby all your actions and intent are null inside your mind since there’s no emotion or intent to any of your actions.

Or in the case with Toga, her mind is so warped that when she’s hurting someone by stabbing them. There’s no killing intent to her actions because she’s doing it out of pure affection and love.

Honestly this thread is being derailed enough. Give me you discord if you want a real debate.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Simply put your body moves on its own not needing to think at all completely shutting off your mind and letting your body move freely

 

[Maitreya12]

Hmm, make sense.
How does this affect goku and beerus ? Is ultra intinct stated to have no killing intent?

Ultra instinct is said to turn all emotions in the body to pure nothingness until all Goku feels is simply himself and the opponent around him.

 

[Samlex1234]

Simply put your body moves on its own not needing to think at all completely shutting off your mind and letting your body move freely

Discord to debate.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ultra instinct is said to turn all emotions in the body to pure nothingness until all Goku feels is simply himself and the opponent around him.

But this relies on instinct. I believe someone already debunked this.

 

[Samlex1234]

Simply put your body moves on its own not needing to think at all completely shutting off your mind and letting your body move freely

Ultra instinct is said to turn all emotions in the body to pure nothingness until all Goku feels is simply himself and the opponent around him.

You can create a crt if you want an all out debate this thread is for another character.

 

[Maitreya12]

But this relies on instinct. I believe someone already debunked this.

What does instinct have to do with someone’s killing intent? Doesn’t reacting on pure instinct imply if anything they’re performing the action regardless of intent?

You can create a crt if you want an all out debate this thread is for another character.

I mean I have no need or purpose for the CRT since in regards to his ability, it operates just as the wiki says. So idk what the CRT would be about particularly.

But as for this topic itself I believe each side has argued there points to conclusion so it can be closed.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

okay will goku or beerus attack with zero killing intent meaning not try to cause any damage what so ever?

Goku almost never attacks with killing intent lol.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

He can just KO and hitting women isn't a problem to him

 

[SlendVeny]

She said her ability doesn't work on relatives or Otsutsuki, however, Eida isn't omniscient and can't see the future, she'd have no way of knowing if it works on Sasuke.

Sasuke has Otsutsuki chakra.