Edens Zero: Sorta Maybe Big Revisions

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, so yeah, I'm gonna be bringing in some old stuff that was never concluded and some new stuff that has been brought to light. These Revisions will either effect a lot of characters or only a few, so I'm just gonna over them all and see what happens.

Rebecca

1. Post-Xenolith Training
Rebecca's normal physicals fought and damaged, as well as took hits from Shiki's physicals. Shiki's physicals could take hits from Callum's Ether Gear, and Callum can fight and pressure Shiki's Ether Gear stats.

So Post-Xenolith Training Rebecca should backscale from Callum and Shiki, meaning she would be baseline High 6-C, which is 100 Gigatons. Now this would essentially scale to every single member of the Crew and also the Oceans due to Rebecca consistently being portrayed as the weakest member of the Crew at this time and also how Lyra can fight and hurt Rebecca, who gets defeated by Kleene, another member portrayed as comparable to other members of the crew. In general, since everyone was pretty comparable to Base Shiki before their training, they should still be somewhat comparable to him after the training.

2. Post-Timeskip
After the Timeskip, Base Rebecca would be far stronger, but to what degree is unknown, so we'll just leave her as "At least" whatever tier she was in her Post-Xenolith Training Key. With her Overdrive, she was able to somewhat fight and hurt Clown with just her kicks, however I admit this on it's own isn't the most solid, so at best, I think we should make Overdrive Rebecca be "Possibly 5-B" over of scaling to Clown.

Happy

1. Post-Xenolith Training
Scales above Rebecca's physicals, so he would be 100 Gigatons and High 6-C

2. Post-Timeskip
Scales above Overdrive Rebecca's physicals and can damage Clown, albeit it's via hitting his weak point, so he would also get the "Possibly 5-B"

Weisz

1. Post-Xenolith Training
Scales to Rebecca's physicals, so he would be 100 Gigatons and High 6-C

2. Post-Timeskip
Base Weisz can take hits from Killer, but is overall weaker, so he would backscale to Baseline 5-B. Arsenal Suit Weisz can break through Killer's Protection Matrix with his bullets, so he scales to Killer. Overdrive Weisz fights and matches Killer, so he scales to Killer as well.

Homura

1. Post-Xenolith Training
Scales to Rebecca's physicals, so she would be 100 Gigatons and High 6-C

2. Post-Timeskip
Base Homura can parry and take hits from Brigandine, who is the strongest of the Dark Stars, so she would be 5-B.

Conclusion

• Post-Xenolith Training Rebecca, Weisz, Homura, Laguna, and Kleene as well as Lyra, Sea Devil Nessah, Milani, and Ijuna would be High 6-C (100 Gigatons)
• Post-Timeskip Overdrive Rebecca and Happy Blasters would be possibly 5-B (Possibly 59.44 Zettatons)
• Post-Timeskip Base Weisz would be 5-B (59.44 Zettatons)
• Post-Timeskip Arsenal Suit Weisz and Overdrive Weisz would be 5-B (416.84 Zettatons)
• Post-Timeskip Base Homura would be 5-B (416.84 Zettatons)

This may flop, but hey, had to do it

 

[Zackra1799]

Looks good to me

 

[Damage3245]

Rebecca's normal physicals fought and damaged, as well as took hits from Shiki's physicals. Shiki's physicals could take hits from Callum's Ether Gear, and Callum can fight and pressure Shiki's Ether Gear stats.

Base Shiki essentially scaling to Shiki's Ether Gear sure seems weird to me based off this scaling chain.

Also, I'm not fond of a scaling chain for all those other characters just based off the logic of "Rebecca should be the weakest character." There'd need to be scaling feats / statements proving that they should also be scaling to High 6-C.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The only thing I'm iffy about is base Homura scaling fully to Brigandine. Yes, she takes multiple attacks, but she's also very clearly on the losing end. She's very much 5-B though, and everything else looks good

 

[CloverDragon03]

Base Shiki essentially scaling to Shiki's Ether Gear sure seems weird to me based off this scaling chain.

It's pretty clear cut all things considered. Given the evidence Mitch provided, there's no reason to assume their physicals are vastly below their Ether Gear.

Also, I'm not fond of a scaling chain for all those other characters just based off the logic of "Rebecca should be the weakest character." There'd need to be scaling feats / statements proving that they should also be scaling to High 6-C.

It's not a matter of "she should be the weakest," that's how the narrative itself portrays her. Combat-wise, she's not as much of a fighter compared to the rest of the crew. Compounding this is the fact that in chapter 132, Xenolith notes that Rebecca's Ether Gear is especially weak and that she'll require more intensive training than the others, indicating that she needed to train more just to reach the same level they did. She's also the last to get her Ether Gear and one of the last to get an Overdrive, compounding this inferior combat ability even more.

 

[Damage3245]

Compounding this is the fact that in chapter 132, Xenolith notes that Rebecca's Ether Gear is especially weak and that she'll require more intensive training than the others

Fair, but that's a statement for her pre-training self, not her post-training self which everyone is supposedly scaling off of.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Fair, but that's a statement for her pre-training self, not her post-training self which everyone is supposedly scaling off of.

It's a support for the fact that narratively she's always weaker than everyone else. She was said to require extensive training, presumably to even reach the same level as everyone else (a logical conclusion from that statement, given how it's framed).

 

[Damage3245]

It's a support for the fact that narratively she's always weaker than everyone else. She was said to require extensive training, presumably to even reach the same level as everyone else (a logical conclusion from that statement, given how it's framed).

Sure, I'm not denying the narrative for pre-training Rebecca there. I'm saying I'd prefer something on the actual profiles besides "Narratively X character is stronger than Rebecca".

 

[CloverDragon03]

Rebecca is at most comparable to everyone else, if not weaker, because Xenolith stated she needed extensive training to (based on the context) reach the same level as the others. That's the justification profile-wise.

Also I understand you'd want more than a narrative explanation, but on some level, we need to take the narrative of the story into account.

 

[Eseseso]

EASY agree to everything in the OP, and even if it's a bit iffy I think that scaling Weisz and Homura to Rebecca's 100 gigatons is...fine, I guess.

 

[BlackeJan]

1. Post-Xenolith Training
Rebecca's normal physicals fought and damaged, as well as took hits from Shiki's physicals. Shiki's physicals could take hits from Callum's Ether Gear, and Callum can fight and pressure Shiki's Ether Gear stats.

If this is scaling their physicals to their ether attacks then I disagree considering that it gives them an amp while not using it is weaker + they always fight using either. Also Shiki taking dmg from Callum is a durability feat

 

[CloverDragon03]

If this is scaling their physicals to their ether attacks then I disagree considering that it gives them an amp while not using it is weaker + they always fight using either. Also Shiki taking dmg from Callum is a durability feat

It means Shiki's physicals are not too far off from his Ether Gear. There's nothing that suggests a wide gap between physicals and Ether Gear

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP looks good to me.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Agree with the OP

Now 5-B BoS

 

[Popted2]

Agree with Mitch, Wonderful Job as always

 

[Popted2]

also yeah Rebecca has always portrayed as the weakest member, everytime

the Post-timeskip confirmed this

 

[BlackeJan]

It means Shiki's physicals are not too far off from his Ether Gear. There's nothing that suggests a wide gap between physicals and Ether Gear

You have for prove that they are though not assuming they aren’t

 

[BlackeJan]

It means Shiki's physicals are not too far off from his Ether Gear. There's nothing that suggests a wide gap between physicals and Ether Gear

And there’s nothing that suggests there’s a small gap between those two. Tell me, what’s the point of using ether if they can just fight without it since “nothing suggests there is a wide gap”

 

[AnonymousBlank]

You have for prove that they are though not assuming they aren’t

We already saw this in his fight with Kurenai. He punched hard enough to damage his fist on the Kurenai Dragoon since it had anti-ether coating or some shit to negate the power of his Ether Gear.

 

[BlackeJan]

We already saw this in his fight with Kurenai. He punched hard enough to damage his fist on the Kurenai Dragoon since it had anti-ether coating or some shit to negate the power of his Ether Gear.

Iirc he damaged his hand pretty badly and the mere fact that there had to be anti-coating either shows that she needed to be defeated with ether meaning that there is quite the gap for physicals and ether power

EDIT: unless Shiki actually defeated her with no ether

 

[CloverDragon03]

You have for prove that they are though not assuming they aren’t

We literally gave proof for that, now it's on you to prove otherwise. You haven't proven otherwise so far.

Iirc he damaged his hand pretty badly and the mere fact that there had to be anti-coating either shows that she needed to be defeated with ether meaning that there is quite the gap for physicals and ether power

EDIT: unless Shiki actually defeated her with no ether

"Shows that she needed to be defeated with Ether" If anything, that's quite the opposite. An Anti-Ether Coating means she needed to be defeated without Ether, otherwise the bot would negate it with that coating.

 

[Popted2]

Blackjean you're the only one who disagree with this so can you stop now, both Clover and the others proved their reasons

 

[BlackeJan]

Blackjean you're the only one who disagree with this so can you stop now, both Clover and the others proved their reasons

Don’t care how u feel and no I’m not gonna stop

 

[Popted2]

Don’t care how u feel and no I’m not gonna stop

k, just a remind that democracy still win

 

[BlackeJan]

Shows that she needed to be defeated with Ether" If anything, that's quite the opposite. An Anti-Ether Coating means she needed to be defeated without Ether, otherwise the bot would negate it with that coating.

Yes that the thing. It shows that ether is what can defeat her so making that coating is what can protect her which then proves that there can be a gap between those 2

 

[BlackeJan]

k, just a remind that democracy still win

so if I was 100% right but everyone else still said no then the system failed us

 

[Popted2]

so if I was 100% right but everyone else still said no then the system failed us

except than this time you're not in the right,

okay lets stop before we will begin to insult each other, that's the last thing i want to happen, i don't want to make enemies here,

so sorry about before

 

[BlackeJan]

except than this time you're not in the right,

okay lets stop before we will begin to insult each other, that's the last thing i want to happen, i don't want to make enemies here,

so sorry about before

???
I honestly didn’t think u was trying if that sort lol so it’s fine really

 

[BlackeJan]

except than this time you're not in the right,

u saying that means I was right in right times beforehand but due to democracy I wasn’t gonna win the argument

 

[Eseseso]

Just to do a tally:


Agree with all of OP: 7 (@Popted2, @Eseseso, @CloverDragon03, @Veloxt1r0kore, @AnonymousBlank, @Zackra1799, @DarkDragonMedeus), including 2 mods/admins (excluding Mitch himself)

Disagree with at least one part of OP: 2 (@BlackeJan and @Damage3245 [although for Damage it's only the Rebecca stuff])

 

[AnonymousBlank]

k, just a remind that democracy still win

You call it democracy, I call it mob mentality. We are not the same

 

[Popted2]

You call it democracy, I call it mob mentality. We are not the same

as a mob like me can even compare to a god like you, of course we are not the same

 

[CloverDragon03]

Gods? Democracy? Wrong!

Free will is a myth. Religion is a joke. We are all pawns, controlled by something greater: Memes. The DNA of the soul. They shape our will. They are the culture. They are everything we pass on.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gods? Democracy? Wrong!

Free will is a myth. Religion is a joke. We are all pawns, controlled by something greater: Memes. The DNA of the soul. They shape our will. They are the culture. They are everything we pass on.

Your memes end here!

 

[Eseseso]

Your memes end here!

No...I passed them on...to you...

Wind blows...rain falls...the strong prey on the weak...

All is...as it should be...

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Rebecca's physicals can notably damage and take attacks from No Ether Gear Base Shiki

No Ether Gear Base Shiki can take hits from Callum's Ether Gear

Ether Gear Base Shiki and Callum Ether Gear can stale mate each other

Like it just makes sense for Rebecca with her Ether Gear to backscale from Ether Gear Base Shiki. And we know Rebecca is narratively everyone is above Rebecca's physicals. Lyra was gonna hurt Rebecca with her Cards, Lyra can take her own Card attacks, Kleene can fight and damage Lyra, Kleene and Lyra aren't notably stronger than other Oceans member, Callum is an Oceans Member and can fight Ether Gear Base Shiki. Everyone's Base Forms were comparable before Xenolith's Training and they all basically received the same kind and amount of training.

It feels consistent for them to backscale at least in my mind. I know this is sort of a "It just makes sense" scaling, but this is just how I interpret the scaling we have.

How does everyone feel about the 5-B stuff?

 

[Eseseso]

Rebecca's physicals can notably damage and take attacks from No Ether Gear Base Shiki

No Ether Gear Base Shiki can take hits from Callum's Ether Gear

Ether Gear Base Shiki and Callum Ether Gear can stale mate each other

Like it just makes sense for Rebecca with her Ether Gear to backscale from Ether Gear Base Shiki. And we know Rebecca is narratively everyone is above Rebecca's physicals. Lyra was gonna hurt Rebecca with her Cards, Lyra can take her own Card attacks, Kleene can fight and damage Lyra, Kleene and Lyra aren't notably stronger than other Oceans member, Callum is an Oceans Member and can fight Ether Gear Base Shiki. Everyone's Base Forms were comparable before Xenolith's Training and they all basically received the same kind and amount of training.

It feels consistent for them to backscale at least in my mind. I know this is sort of a "It just makes sense" scaling, but this is just how I interpret the scaling we have.

Agree with all of this, great job as per usual

How does everyone feel about the 5-B stuff?

I agree with all of it except Rebecca and Happy, as they left no lasting damage on Clown and he quickly recovered from all their "attacks".

"Possibly 5-B" would be the only way I'd accept 5-B.

Rest is good tho, Homura and Weisz FTW

 

[Popted2]

Rebecca's physicals can notably damage and take attacks from No Ether Gear Base Shiki

No Ether Gear Base Shiki can take hits from Callum's Ether Gear

Ether Gear Base Shiki and Callum Ether Gear can stale mate each other

Like it just makes sense for Rebecca with her Ether Gear to backscale from Ether Gear Base Shiki. And we know Rebecca is narratively everyone is above Rebecca's physicals. Lyra was gonna hurt Rebecca with her Cards, Lyra can take her own Card attacks, Kleene can fight and damage Lyra, Kleene and Lyra aren't notably stronger than other Oceans member, Callum is an Oceans Member and can fight Ether Gear Base Shiki. Everyone's Base Forms were comparable before Xenolith's Training and they all basically received the same kind and amount of training.

It feels consistent for them to backscale at least in my mind. I know this is sort of a "It just makes sense" scaling, but this is just how I interpret the scaling we have.

How does everyone feel about the 5-B stuff?

agree with all of this,

but why Weisz and Homura would only be 100 gigatons? instead of scaling to Shiki or at least Jinn?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I agree with all of it except Rebecca and Happy, as they left no lasting damage on Clown and he quickly recovered from all their "attacks".

"Possibly 5-B" would be the only way I'd accept 5-B.

Rest is good tho, Homura and Weisz FTW

Mitch said Rebecca and Happy would be possibly 5-B

Rebecca's physicals can notably damage and take attacks from No Ether Gear Base Shiki

No Ether Gear Base Shiki can take hits from Callum's Ether Gear

Ether Gear Base Shiki and Callum Ether Gear can stale mate each other

Like it just makes sense for Rebecca with her Ether Gear to backscale from Ether Gear Base Shiki. And we know Rebecca is narratively everyone is above Rebecca's physicals. Lyra was gonna hurt Rebecca with her Cards, Lyra can take her own Card attacks, Kleene can fight and damage Lyra, Kleene and Lyra aren't notably stronger than other Oceans member, Callum is an Oceans Member and can fight Ether Gear Base Shiki. Everyone's Base Forms were comparable before Xenolith's Training and they all basically received the same kind and amount of training.

It feels consistent for them to backscale at least in my mind. I know this is sort of a "It just makes sense" scaling, but this is just how I interpret the scaling we have.

How does everyone feel about the 5-B stuff?

All looks good to me