Edens Zero: Shura and Feather Upgrade

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, so in Chapter 175, the Edens Zero starts up and uses it's initial speed to leave Planet Blue Garden at Massively Hypersonic+ speed and it's KE is rated as High 6-C

Since this was the Edens Zero startup speed and we know for a fact that it speeds up faster than this later in the chapter, it's safe to scale this to Shura as the Edens Zero was moving at it's planet entering speed and would should be the same speed, if not faster than the speed that it was moving at when it initially launches

Since Feather and Justice are capable of reacting to ships that keep up with ships that can keep up and match the Edens Zero higher speeds, so they have reactions at Massively Hypersonic+ and since we know Base Shiki blitzes Feather, he would just scale to that speed

 

[KingTempest]

Looks fine

 

[Eseseso]

Agree.

 

[TheForgottenKing]

Seems fine to me

 

[Eseseso]

EZ fans: Did you die?

6-C Shura: Sadly yes...but I LIVED!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks fine

 

[Tohaku]

Is there a specific reason the Edens Zero leaving a planet would be the same speed as when they are cruising within a planet formulating a plan just outside of the city? Cause that's what was happening right before Shura stopped the ship.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Is there a specific reason the Edens Zero leaving a planet would be the same speed as when they are cruising within a planet formulating a plan just outside of the city? Cause that's what was happening right before Shura stopped the ship.

1. The speed calculated above is the startup speed for the ship taking off, so it would be it's lowest speed

2. When Shura stops the ship, he's stopping it's speed that it was using to blast through the planet, the thrusters are very much on and powered. This wouldn't really be crusing.

3. Shura also physically broke through the ships Armor, which scales above it's KE

 

[CloverDragon03]

Looks good to me

 

[Tohaku]

1. The speed calculated above is the startup speed for the ship taking off, so it would be it's lowest speed

2. When Shura stops the ship, he's stopping it's speed that it was using to blast through the planet, the thrusters are very much on and powered. This wouldn't really be crusing.

3. Shura also physically broke through the ships Armor, which scales above it's KE

That's not how that works. The ship doesn't have a lowest speed it can cruise at, especially not one that high. After the scan you posted there are multiple pages of them talking about their plan while heading towards the dome. Unless you think the distance from the ship to the city in that scan you posted is more than 1569 km, then there's no way they were going that fast within the planet.

Shura breaking through the armor is a more legitimate feat (though it's probably easier to poke a small hole through it than outright destroy the whole thing).

 

[Damage3245]

I'm neutral on this, but leaning towards disagreeing due to Tohaku's reasons.

I don't think that the scaling of the speed in this case for making the KE of the ship comparable in this scenes is really founded on anything solid.

 

[Tohaku]

Just want to point out I only disagree with the Shura thing. Everything else seems fine to me

 

[Popted2]

i agree with the op

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Damn a dead guy gets an upgrade Neutral until mitch counters tohaku's argument

 

[Nerd1435]

Shura completely halted Edens Zero's movement. They couldn't steer the Edens Zero under his gravity lock despite the fact that the thrusters are visibly active.

The steering was only online after Shura released his death grip on Edens Zero (chap.142, page.12)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's not how that works. The ship doesn't have a lowest speed it can cruise at, especially not one that high. After the scan you posted there are multiple pages of them talking about their plan while heading towards the dome. Unless you think the distance from the ship to the city in that scan you posted is more than 1569 km, then there's no way they were going that fast within the planet.

Shura breaking through the armor is a more legitimate feat (though it's probably easier to poke a small hole through it than outright destroy the whole thing).

They talk for a like 1 page and are still implied to be flying fast towards the Dome. I chalk up what you're suggesting to cinematic time. They are never implied to be "cruising" as you say as they never halt or slow down their movement from thrusting forward towards the Dome. Even Jinn believes they plan to ram the Dome, which implies they are going at a fast speed towards the Dome.

And since the speed calced in the feat above is just the startup speed of the Edens Zero, Shura absolutely stopped the ship at this speed bare minimum

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I Agree since mitch now answered

 

[Nerd1435]

I mean Edens Zero is at least FTL for being capable of the travel it performed in Aoi Cosmos despite the fact that the data was erased and they can't use the Fast Travel function until they physically travelled to the said place (planet)

But I'll keep that to myself (Homura style)

 

[CloverDragon03]

I still agree with Mitch, the Edens Zero had to be going at this speed at minimum as they were implied to be going fast and this is the Edens Zero's startup speed. Plus, like Mitch said, Shura physically tore through the Edens Zero's Guarananium Armor, which scales above its KE.

 

[Damage3245]

And since the speed calced in the feat above is just the startup speed of the Edens Zero, Shura absolutely stopped the ship at this speed bare minimum

I don't see how it being the "start up speed" matters. Obviously the EZ is accelerating from zero so for some tiny span of time the speed will be low, but that doesn't mean that when it reaches space from there that the speed would still be slower than when it was stopped by Shura.

 

[Nerd1435]

Mashima also pretty much implied FTL travel is possible for the ships because they work on the power of Ether which defies physics in the afterword for volume 1. Now I know this is not the thread for that, don't attack me.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't see how it being the "start up speed" matters. Obviously the EZ is accelerating from zero so for some tiny span of time the speed will be low, but that doesn't mean that when it reaches space from there that the speed would still be slower than when it was stopped by Shura.

I mean the Edens Zero from speeding through space and then entered the atmosphere with no implied speed drop, so considering the speed in the calc above is the speed we see the Edens Zero move at right when it's launching off, it feels likely that it would be the same or lower than the speed they're all when they are flying through space

Jinn even reacts to Shura's feat by saying "He can stop a battleship?", implying he's capable of stopping the ships average speed

 

[Damage3245]

Isn't the implied speed drop the amount of time they spent flying through the atmosphere before they were stopped?

Cinematic time is a possibility but that doesn't automatically take effect every time there happens to be a bit of dialogue.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Isn't the implied speed drop the amount of time they spent flying through the atmosphere before they were stopped?

Cinematic time is a possibility but that doesn't automatically take effect every time there happens to be a bit of dialogue.

This is the series of shots we get of the Edens Zero

There's no implied speed decrease at all, they continue speeding ahead with the speed they used in space

And the next time we see the Edens Zero, it's halted by Shura, so yeah, I believe we should scale Shura to the feat above

 

[Damage3245]

So the EZ flies for 1 panel from the surface of the planet up to space so that implies a single second passed, but the EZ there spent 7 or 8 panels flying down to near the surface of the planet from space, so can't we make use of that information?

 

[Nerd1435]

Regardless, the Edens Zero steering was possible only after Shura released it from his grip. The thruster at it's back was still active and it's kinda senseless that Hermit would not raise the output (if the thruster was at low output) if getting them out was as simple as that considering that the systems are all still active and Hermit is analyzing the Edens Zero condition and likely trying to get them out of it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

So the EZ flies for 1 panel from the surface of the planet up to space so that implies a single second passed, but the EZ there spent 7 or 8 panels flying down to near the surface of the planet from space, so can't we make use of that information?

That's cause there is no plot reason for the ship to take more than one panel in the first shot, there are zero obstacles

In this instance, it's a struggle to enter the planet and they need to have exposition and an action shot for the ending of a chapter

That's such an unreasonable argument

 

[Nerd1435]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. OD Shiki stopping the space dragons should be a more impressive feat if you exclude the "casual" factor that Shura performed it with on Edens Zero using one hand

Sakura Cosmos Space Dragons are about comparable to EZ in size and they're also comparable in speed. We can just consider the fastest spacecraft constructed with our current technology for their speed, considering that the tech in EZ is far superior and much more futuristic and actually capable of space travel in relevant time frames without using the fast travel. It's a much better assumption than the "escape velocity" which isn't really even relevant to Edens Zero take-offs.

 

[Damage3245]

That's cause there is no plot reason for the ship to take more than one panel in the first shot, there are zero obstacles

In this instance, it's a struggle to enter the planet and they need to have exposition and an action shot for the ending of a chapter

That's such an unreasonable argument

I just don't see how it isn't any different for the Edenz Zero taking off for the planet. It only takes a single panel because Mashima doesn't want it to be a drawn-out series of panels when for story purposes it could be accomplished in a single panel.

Now, I have no problem with that for the sake of that scene alone; but then trying to expand it to every other time we've seen the EZ fly just seems to me like upgrades for the sake of upgrades when it is possible that we could find a different estimate for the EZ's speed at the time when it is moving and Shura stopped it.

 

[Tohaku]

These are the pages that occur after the Edens Zero enters the planet. Their plan is to stop the ship in front of the defense force and have a separate group go underground. Hermit was still building the route they were going to take so it doesn't really make sense for them to be bolting towards the city at over 1500 km per second. I'd understand the cinematic timing argument if there was a reason the ship had to be going at that speed during these panels. But given the nature of the situation, the ship had to slow down.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

These are the pages that occur after the Edens Zero enters the planet. Their plan is to stop the ship in front of the defense force and have a separate group go underground. Hermit was still building the route they were going to take so it doesn't really make sense for them to be bolting towards the city at over 1500 km per second. I'd understand the cinematic timing argument if there was a reason the ship had to be going at that speed during these panels. But given the nature of the situation, the ship had to slow down.

No, not really, we don't see them say it slows down, we literally see them blasting off right before this page, there's no period where someone is sitting in the chair slowing down the ship

 

[Damage3245]

I have to agree with Tohaku.

 

[SamanPatou]

Since Feather and Justice are capable of reacting to ships that keep up with ships that can keep up and match the Edens Zero higher speeds, so they have reactions at Massively Hypersonic+ and since we know Base Shiki blitzes Feather, he would just scale to that speed

About this, iirc you don't need to have reactions comparable to the speed of your vehicle in order to drive them efficiently, and even a FTL ship would just require hypersonic reactions (still iirc).
This specific thing requires more inputs, I think.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well we need more staff than, since it's split

 

[Nerd1435]

About this, iirc you don't need to have reactions comparable to the speed of your vehicle in order to drive them efficiently, and even a FTL ship would just require hypersonic reactions (still iirc).
This specific thing requires more inputs, I think.

You won't be able to steer an FTL ship with hypersonic reactions to avoid an obstacle unless you have a 100km distance in between, the distance feather and connor had was very short

 

[Nerd1435]

 

[Nierre]

neutral leaning towards disagreeing fra

 

[Arata1039]

I agree

 

[ShadowGun45]

I agree

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

bump