Ebony Warrior VS Broly

[Peter1129]

@Peter

You cannot possible think that they are "thousands to millions of times baseline" when only a couple characters/forms even in Low 2-C PERIOD.

Even if we ignore all the other multipliers and only use the accepted SS1 being 40x and Kaioken multipliers. They would still be thousands of times baseline no matter what you do.

Blame Dragon Ball for being a mostly raw power verse.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I'm still not seeing a actual argument against it though. Other than just saying 'No way'... I don't see a argument against it.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Please try to make a argument against his scaling other than "Out of being incredulous because of a few people scale to it" . Marvel has Low 2-C's extremely far into baseline [hundreds of millions of times to transfinite levels of infinity] and there are only about only a few notable ones currently on site.

^

 

[Assaltwaffle]

SSJ Goku isn't Low 2-C at all. You can't use the SSJ multipliers in this because until you hit post-UI SSB you're not in Low 2-C.

Once in Low 2-C you can slap on the Kaioken multipliers, except I don't think Goku used Kaioken SSB against Broly. Broly curbed SSB Goku, who is an unknown amount above baseline (but not that much) and then fought Gogeta, who is an unknown amount above 2x that.

 

[Peter1129]

Assalt I think you're confusing Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku with Post-UI/Broly Saga SSB Goku.

In the Broly Saga we literally see SS1 Goku fight evenly with initial Wrath Broly who was able to no sell attacks from Post-Limit Break SSG Vegeta. In the light novel the narration even said SS1 Goku was nearly as strong as Wrath Broly.

I was going to make a thread about seperating Broly Saga from Post-2nd UIS sometime this week since high quality clips of the movie has been leaked all over YouTube now.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Wrath Broly forced Goku into SSB and completely stomped out SSG Goku (literally one of the most brutal beatdowns DBS has seen). SSJ Goku never held his own against Wrath Broly.

As for Post-UI SSB being different than Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku, maybe? But we can't be sure since the ending of DBS ToP arc is a scaling nightmare.

But unless you want to claim that Goku's base form is Low 2-C now that massive scaling chain just doesn't work.

 

[Peter1129]

First of all that was Post-adaptation Wrath Broly that forced Goku into SSB. Before that SS1 Goku was relatively even with Pre-adaptation Wrath Broly as shown in the movie and stated in the light novel.

It isn't a maybe. The movie interview straight up said Broly Saga Goku was nearing the gods and Vegeta was desperately trying to catch up to him. And we literally see the big gap in power between them in the movie.

I never said Broly Base Goku was Low 2-C I said Broly Saga SS1 and up Goku is Low 2-C due to new feats and statement said.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

"Nearing the gods" =/= on the same level as a GoD.

Also that doesn't indicate his base in on that level even then. "Goku" could mean Goku and all of his transformations.

SSJ Goku isn't a massive jump up from base and has no feats of tier jumping into Low 2-C.

 

[Peter1129]

Nearing the gods likely means his current full power is nearing the lvl of the gods not his base.

And like I've said before I never once said Broly Saga Base Goku is Low 2-C. I said Broly Saga SS1 and up basically SS1 to SSB Goku is Low 2-C because he has actual feats and scaling to prove he's Low 2-C.

Broly Saga Base Goku is shown to be stronger than Post-Limit Break SSG Vegeta. Which means his SS1 form should be stronger than Post-Limit Break SSB Vegeta (since SSB is basically the SS1 version of SSG) who is stronger than Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku because his SSBE form was initially equal to Post-2nd UIS SSBKK Goku before powering up in his fight with GoD Toppo. And we have confirmatio that SSBE = SSBKK

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I don't take any of that to mean his SSJ form has broken into tier 2.

 

[Peter1129]

I was going to postpone the Goku thread until the current Dragon Ball CRTs are over and after I make the outline for another Dragon Ball thread. But now it seems like I have no choice but to make the Goku thread today when I'm out of school.

Cause this is just getting ridiculous. So what you're saying is you don't believe Post-UI/Broly Saga SS1 Goku is Low 2-C even though he has an actually feat of scaling to a Low 2-C character on top of a statement to prove this isn't an outlier?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

He has no feat of scaling to a Low 2-C character. The only Low 2-C character he fought was Wrath Broly, and Wrath Broly is only Low 2-C for defeating Post-UI SSB.

So you're suggesting SSJ Goku scales to SSB Goku. Which he doesn't.

 

[Peter1129]

I'm suggesting Broly Saga SS1 Goku > Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku due to new feats and scalings from the movie.

Though now that you mentioned it it seems like I'm gonna need to make a Broly Saga revision thread rather than just a Goku revision thread. Cause Goku's not the only one who's going to go through a revision due to the new scaling. All three Saiyans Broly, Goku and Vegeta are gonna go through a revision.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

What new feats or scalings? There were no new feats not presented by Gogeta Blue and LSSJ Broly and there is no scaling that doesn't make SSJ Goku equal to a higher transformation of the same Goku.

Vegeta has one form that is Low 2-C and he doesn't use it here, so that's not scaling. Broly is only Low 2-C for fighting SSB Goku, so the only way to scale SSJ Goku to Broly is to call SSJ = SSB which is blatantly wrong.

 

[Peter1129]

Just give me a few hours and I'll make the thread. We'll discuss everything there.

Doesn't fighting a character count as a feat or does that only count as powerscaling and I've been using the word feat wrong? Cause if it's the latter than I guess it's just new scaling and no new feats.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

A feat is an action that we can scale characters from. Scaling is just scaling.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah never mind than no new feats just new scaling.

 

[Torlikoff]

Bump?