Dyspo vs 17 1/6/0 (grace)

[Soulgizmo]

It could be that hit just has a certain advantage that 17 doesn't have to fight dyspo.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

It could be that hit just has a certain advantage that 17 doesn't have to fight dyspo.

That advantage was Hit's Time-skip, which in-and-of-itself is a pretty broken ability that's allowed him to win every match he's been placed in so far against other DBS opponents, not to mention his Tides of Time and Pocket Dimension. 17 doesn't have those broken abilities to help him, and none of his other powers would help him for this specific type of fight.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

True that Hit almost defeated Dyspo, but Hit didn't really manage to adapt to Jiren. He was literally only able to land a single blow after using his Time-Skip repeatedly, and Jiren was clearly holding back for most of the battle, even more than he did against U1O1 Goku, with the only time he really took the battle seriously was when he was trapped in Hit's Cage of Time. We also don't know how Hit would've been able to handle Dyspo's Super Maximum Light Speed Mode either since Dyspo retreated before he could use it.

How do you know he did not took Hit as seriosuly as UIO1 Goku? Goku couldn't scratch Jiren as well with UIO1, he only managed to avoid hits from him

Not a really good comparison here, since Jiren was substantially weaker, both physically and emotionally, as it's been confirmed by statements that Jiren wasn't able to draw out his full power against Golden Frieza due to being emotionally compromised. 17 also didn't really "keep up" with Jiren at all. The most he did was tackle Jiren and trap him in his barrier to weaken him, which doesn't really prove that 17 was faster or equally fast at all. 17 himself admitted that Golden Frieza and Jiren were tough ones, implying he couldn't keep up with that kind of strength. Then, in the final match with Goku, Frieza and 17, he just stayed back and played the long-range game.

Android 17 kept up with SSBKK20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta before then as the three of them attacked Jiren at his full power. Jiren was not emotionally compromised there

Here, Dyspo's Light Bullet will be too fast for 17 to fire an endless barrage of blasts since he'll be too fast to target, and his Super Maximum Light Speed Mode will only make it worse.

The constant blasts fired at Dyspo's way would make it very difficult for him to advance, and since 17 can also protect himself with the shield, Dyspo would have a harder time getting to him, especially since Dyspo can tire while 17 can't

 

[Soulgizmo]

Honestly I'm gonna change my vote to incon. If this was gonna happen in the story 17 may very well just attempt to capture light speed dyspo in his force field with himself and knock the both of them out the ring.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

How do you know he did not took Hit as seriosuly as UIO1 Goku? Goku couldn't scratch Jiren as well with UIO1, he only managed to avoid hits from him

Perhaps, but regardless Hit was really only able to keep up that long because of his Time-skip.

Android 17 kept up with SSBKK20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta before then as the three of them attacked Jiren at his full power. Jiren was not emotionally compromised there

Goku literally only activated the SSBKK for a brief instant as a combined attack with Vegeta and 17. There's no real proof it was the Kaio-Ken x20, and usually whenever Goku increases his Kaio-Ken, he openly states the multiplier, as he did so many times during the Tournament of Power. For most of the fight, Goku was just in his regular SSB form. Also, SSBE Vegeta had just used his most powerful attack against GoD Toppo, so he was clearly weaker when he was fighting Jiren alongside Goku and Vegeta.

The constant blasts fired at Dyspo's way would make it very difficult for him to advance, and since 17 can also protect himself with the shield, Dyspo would have a harder time getting to him, especially since Dyspo can tire while 17 can't

Again, how's 17 gonna hit him? Dyspo could just easily dodge the energy blasts and pummel 18 with his Light Bullet or Super Maximum Light Speed Mode, enough for Dyspo to get him out of the ring.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Honestly I'm gonna change my vote to incon. If this was gonna happen in the story 17 may very well just attempt to capture light speed dyspo in his force field with himself and knock the both of them out the ring.

Even that seems unlikely, since Dyspo would be too fast for 17 to even catch him. Gohan was only able to do it because Dyspo's attention was on Frieza and he was able to take Dyspo by surprise and put him in a griplock. Dyspo's just gonna keep pushing 17 until he eventually gets thrown out of the ring, with his barrier or without it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Perhaps, but regardless Hit was really only able to keep up that long because of his Time-skip.

That's true, but 17 reacted with the same Jiren who is way faster than Dyspo even without that emotional compromise

Goku was only SSBKK, not SSBKK20. There's no real proof it was the Kaio-Ken x20, and usually whenever Goku increases his Kaio-Ken, he openly states the multiplier, as he did so many times during the Tournament of Power. Also, SSBE Vegeta had just used his most powerful attack against GoD Toppo, so he was clearly weaker when he was fighting Jiren alongside Goku and Vegeta.

Goku has the same aura here as he did with SSBKK20 the first time he used it on Jiren (and that's also how he looks in the pictures in the wiki), and since we know SSBE = SSBKK20, we can safely say it's SSBKK20. Not that it matters since even regular SSBKK is way above Dyspo's power. 17 was able to react and intercept attacks for SSBE Vegeta, and while Vegeta used his Ultimate move on Toppo before, there's no proof Vegeta has weakened by this much

Again, how's 17 gonna hit him? Dyspo could just easily dodge the energy blasts and pummel 18 with his Light Bullet or Super Maximum Light Speed Mode, enough for Dyspo to get him out of the ring.

If Dyspo would stop even for just a moment, 17's blasts will hit him, as 17 can fire constantly at him. Toppo had the advantage of being very strong to block the damage, but Dyspo is way weaker and can't afford to be hit by 17's attacks. Dyspo would be forced to dodge them, but with 17's limitless stamina, it's only a matter of time before Dyspo tires out, and 17 lands the hit on him

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

That's true, but 17 reacted with the same Jiren who is way faster than Dyspo even without that emotional compromise

No he didn't. He couldn't really react to Jiren at all, and was constantly overwhelmed in speed and knocked back by Jiren.

Goku has the same aura here as he did with SSBKK20 the first time he used it on Jiren (and that's also how he looks in the pictures in the wiki), and since we know SSBE = SSBKK20, we can safely say it's SSBKK20. Not that it matters since even regular SSBKK is way above Dyspo's power. 17 was able to react and intercept attacks for SSBE Vegeta, and while Vegeta used his Ultimate move on Toppo before, there's no proof Vegeta has weakened by this much

I disagree, but even if you were right, Goku only used the SSBKK momentarily when he coordinated with Vegeta and 17 to fire their most powerful attacks together against Jiren, but he went out of the form right after. 17 was never shown fighting alongside SSBKK Goku, so we can't say he was as fast as him. And I think it would be pretty rash to assume that Vegeta wasn't significantly weakened by the attack. The most obvious evidence is that before, SSBE Vegeta was fighting equally against Jiren alongside SSBKK Goku, but now he only appeared equal to SSB Goku and wasn't fighting faster or with more power than SSB Goku either. And this was the same attack that turned his body to dust before. Even if he got significantly stronger and gained better ki control, it should be clear the attack takes a tremendous toll.

If Dyspo would stop even for just a moment, 17's blasts will hit him, as 17 can fire constantly at him. Toppo had the advantage of being very strong to block the damage, but Dyspo is way weaker and can't afford to be hit by 17's attacks. Dyspo would be forced to dodge them, but with 17's limitless stamina, it's only a matter of time before Dyspo tires out, and 17 lands the hit on him

The gap in strength isn't that substantial, and the moment he sees that 17 has limitless stamina, he'll activate his Super Maximum Light Speed Mode, which isn't an attack like the Light Bullet and be maintained consistently. This speed is arguably the highest seen by mortals so far, as Golden Frieza was completely incapable of reacting to it and was nearly forced out of the ring. Against a weaker, slower opponent like 17, he'll only be taken out of the ring more quickly.

 

[Soulgizmo]

17 does have the odds of capturing dyspo
Just make a huge **** off barrier like how he did against the desperation move jiren made. Not likely but it is a win con. 17s a much smarter fighter and has infinite energy.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No he didn't. He couldn't really react to Jiren at all, and was constantly overwhelmed in speed and knocked back by Jiren.

Yes he was, as he was able to land hits on Jiren, as well as intercept attacks meant for SSBE Vegeta, who is way faster than Dyspo

I disagree, but even if you were right, Goku only used the SSBKK momentarily when he coordinated with Vegeta and 17 to fire their most powerful attacks together against Jiren, but he went out of the form right after.

No he didn't. He tried to fight Jiren in this form but Jiren knocked him out of it later

17 was never shown fighting alongside SSBKK Goku, so we can't say he was as fast as him. And I think it would be pretty rash to assume that Vegeta wasn't significantly weakened by the attack. The most obvious evidence is that before, SSBE Vegeta was fighting equally against Jiren alongside SSBKK Goku, but now he only appeared equal to SSB Goku and wasn't fighting faster or with more power than SSB Goku either. And this was the same attack that turned his body to dust before. Even if he got significantly stronger and gained better ki control, it should be clear the attack takes a tremendous toll.

17 was fighting with SSBE Vegeta, who is equal to SSBKK20 Goku, and it's because of the fight between them, 17 and Jiren that we know SSBKK20 Goku is = SSBE Vegeta. Again 17 intercepted hits meant for Vegeta and even managed to react and dodge an attack from Jiren, who is faster than Dyspo

The gap in strength isn't that substantial, and the moment he sees that 17 has limitless stamina, he'll activate his Super Maximum Light Speed Mode, which isn't an attack like the Light Bullet and be maintained consistently. This speed is arguably the highest seen by mortals so far, as Golden Frieza was completely incapable of reacting to it and was nearly forced out of the ring. Against a weaker, slower opponent like 17, he'll only be taken out of the ring more quickly.

17 is arguably stronger than Frieza was in the tournament. Keeping up with SSBKK20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta is a better feat than what Frieza did, especially when all of them were breaking their limits during the tournament, including Frieza and 17

 

[Soulgizmo]

dyspo being faster than 17 is his one win con

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Yes he was, as he was able to land hits on Jiren, as well as intercept attacks meant for SSBE Vegeta, who is way faster than Dyspo

A weaker SSBE Vegeta. And Jiren was only noted to be faster than a regular Dyspo, but never specifically mentioned whether he was faster than Dyspo in his Super Maximum Light Speed Mode, as that statement was made before the form was revealed.

17 was fighting with SSBE Vegeta, who is equal to SSBKK20 Goku, and it's because of the fight between them, 17 and Jiren that we know SSBKK20 Goku is = SSBE Vegeta. Again 17 intercepted hits meant for Vegeta and even managed to react and dodge an attack from Jiren, who is faster than Dyspo

Again, there's no confirmation that Goku was using SSBKK20. Just because the the SSBKK20 looks like the regular SSBKK does not mean that he's using the SSBKK20. Unless there's an author statement confirming that the SSBKK Goku was using throughout the rest of the tournament was the x20 multiplier, we shouldn't just make assumptions. There's even a statement which confirms that SSBE Evolved Vegeta is comparable to SSBKK Goku, not SSBKK20 Goku.

17 is arguably stronger than Frieza was in the tournament. Keeping up with SSBKK20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta is a better feat than what Frieza did, especially when all of them were breaking their limits during the tournament, including Frieza and 17

That's a very rash assumption. Again, 17 was in awe at Golden Frieza and Jiren's strength despite both of them being weakened. There are also multiple statements which have said that Frieza and Goku are stronger than 17. You keep overestimating both Goku and Vegeta's strength and assuming that Jiren wasn't holding back even during his fight with Goku, Vegeta and 17.

 

[Soulgizmo]

This thread ended up being in favor for dyspo only for 17 to actually have better win scenarios funny

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

This thread ended up being in favor for dyspo only for 17 to actually have better win scenarios funny

Eh, not really. The big barrier move you mentioned was only used as a last resort against Jiren since he was so unbelievably powerful. It isn't in-character of him to use it against others. I believe Gilad's reasoning is flawed due to the power levels of Goku and Vegeta he's using to compare 17 with being much lower than their initial power levels when fighting Jiren together. Dyspo's speed is still too great for 17 to counter in-time.

 

[Vizer04]

In fact 17 vs hit should be a thread

It's been done

 

[Soulgizmo]

It's been done

Huh well what do ya know.
Anyway is anybody else gonna vote for dyspo so we can hit grace?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'd say Android 17

 

[Soulgizmo]

bump

 

[Soulgizmo]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[V999]

Dyspo FRA

 

[Soulgizmo]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

This battle was already added to their profiles.