Dragon Ball Super Revision Thread

[Anonimoe7875]

Yamcha is 3-A >:V

 

[Ryukama]

I think the explanation this site is going with is that Goku's base only absorbed the strength of SSG. Not the SSG form itself. Like how GT Base Goku is stronger than Z's SSJ3 yet he can stack SSJ3 on top of that. I'm fine with however most people decide to scale these characters though.

 

[Dark649]

But whatever, by the end of the series i'm pretty sure even ******* Yamcha's gonna become 3-A. Becoming 3-A in DBS is easier than 1+1 so who even cares at this point.

Language please because this thread can turn out of hand, also if that happens that's Toei decision and the staff follows after.

 

[Golden_Void]

We pretty much scale him thw way we scale GT Goku, yeah. I think people just have a problem with it because Goku's universal feat isn't what they expected. :^)

 

[Skytheblue]

The gap between 4-B and 3-A is literally like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x. More or less, i'm not too sure about the exact gap, but it should be around this.

SSG turned Goku from 4-B to 3-A. Meaning that SSG is a 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x multiplier, or something like that.

Base Goku is already 3-A, and we stack his SSG form on top of the already 3-A base Goku (which is equal to the SSG Goku that fought Beerus).

So current SSG Goku is like 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x stronger than he was during his fight with Beerus. And yet Beerus is still much much stronger than Goku.

Can someone please explain this logic to me? Thank you.

Sorry for the stupidly long numbers, I don't like writing in scientific notation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm perfectly okay with Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, U6, etc being 3-A. Piccolo and Trunks is too far though. Clear outliers.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You know, applying mathematical tier differences to multipliers get us completely nowhere.

 

[Dark649]

Trunks fought with SS3 Goku, punched Zamasu and SSR Rose Black and sparred with Vegeta, while Piccolo trained with 3-A Gohan, chocked him and forced him to turn Ultimate Gohan, damaged him when distracted and is going to fight other 3-A opponents.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stop being angry and swearing.

Goku is 3-A because he absorbed the Super Saiyan God power into his base and we're being shown time and time again that the game between his base and Super Saiyan Blue isn't really that big.

Also, stop applying math and multiplier to this. Transformations make the character as powerful as the plot needs them to be, that's it. If a transformation makes you go from 4-B to 3-A, then that's the transformation. If later the character's base stays as strong as the previous transformation, but he can still use that transformation, that won't make him into a Multiverse buster unless he shows feats of blowing up multiverses.

Numerical stated power increases in stories are almost always complete nonsense and don't reflect the actually gained power.

 

[Ryukama]

You know, applying mathematical tier differences to multipliers get us completely nowhere.

Yeah but I love numbers.

The gap between even the strongest 4-A possible and the weakest 3-A ever is over 3e35. Or 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times.

 

[DodoNova2]

Beerus and Base Goku did not they fight in an episode?

 

[Dark649]

Beerus and Base Goku did not they fight in an episode?

Yup, he even forced the latter to go serious and Whis had to stop them.

 

[HST_Master]

Yeah when they had to keep Goku from figuring out Monaka was a fake

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm perfectly okay with Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, U6, etc being 3-A. Piccolo and Trunks is too far though. Clear outliers.

Lolwut

 

[HST_Master]

Though would this upgrade apply to the humans as well? Seeing as how Tien and Krillin were outclassed in raw strength and speed during their tests And Roshi was actually able to keep pace with Base Goku when he was being controlled

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Trunks pre-SSJR goes from barely beating Dabura to contending with Zamasu. He doesn't have the "U6, so different" argument unlike Cabba. Also, Goku holds back...a lot.

 

[Dark649]

They are currently analyzed, Krillin defeated Majora, who knocked 18, who wanted to fight Ribrianne and help 17, she also will likely fight with Frost since he dropped Krillin. For Roshi and Tien, who has traits from three eyed alien race we are waiting for then to knock out more 3-A opponents before upgrading them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dark

The humans aren't going to be 3-A, and it is possible that 17 will be downgraded as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I doubt 17 would be downgraded. He would simply be far above the others. He is kinda treated as one of the powerhouses here. And while it is loose, he is noted to have trained all these years. Plus his feats are more blatant.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I doubt 17 would be downgraded. He would simply be far above the others. He is kinda treated as one of the powerhouses here. And while it is loose, he is noted to have trained all these years.

Maybe. But 18, Tien, Krillin and Roshi are obviously not 3-A. At best they'll be 4-B.

 

[DodoNova2]

Trunks pre-SSJR goes from barely beating Dabura to contending with Zamasu. He doesn't have the "U6, so different" argument unlike Cabba. Also, Goku holds back...a lot.

Dabura 3-A? OvO

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I can see 4-B 18 or Tien. Roshi and Krillin?...Nah.

 

[Dark649]

Dabura 3-A? OvO

Dabura was stomped, Trunks grew much stronger since that and there is no 4-B for current Super only 3-A.

 

[Dark649]

Matthew as you noticed other characters had big jumps as well and if you think Krillin, Roshi and Tien should not be upgraded because they are just humans, i disagree because there a lot of human characters in fictions had big jumps, nonsensical as well in fiction and overwhelmed the gods that said they are just humans they will never reach my power. Lastly 17 fought with Ribrianne, who fought with Super Saiyan Vegeta, so no downgrade for 17.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree with Krillin, Roshi and Tien because it's been made very clear that they are far weaker than even suppressed base Gohan Pre-Completing his Training.

 

[Golden_Void]

Trunks got the biggest plot jumps in the whole series in his own arc, and no way is 17 under 3-A.

 

[Dark649]

They trained hard since then, also i'm waiting for more episodes before saying more about them.

 

[Skytheblue]

Stop being angry and swearing.

How about you read my actual damn comment.

I only swore like one time and I wasn't even angry. I was actually being extremely polite when I wrote my last comment. I literally thanked people for the replies and even apologized for the long numbers. And yet you tell me to stop being angry and swearing.

Read my freaking comment next time. Then speak. Thanks.

 

[Skytheblue]

Trunks got the biggest plot jumps in the whole series in his own arc, and no way is 17 under 3-A.

Speaking of Trunks, shouldn't Trunks just be a solid 3-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The moment Krillin is made 3-A via obtuse backwards powerscaling is the moment I give up.

I don't mind more people scaling, and guys like 17 are good examples of characters who contend with heavy hitters, but there should seriously be some logical stopping point so this isn't applied to literally everyone.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with Azzy and Matt. 3-A Krillin, Tien and Roshi are like a big no. Even 18 is very controversial herself.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Sky Dude, you really need to cool your attitude here. You've been rude so many times it is not even funny, I suggest you calm down before you get banned.

 

[Skytheblue]

I agree with Azzy and Matt. 3-A Krillin, Tien and Roshi are like a big no. Even 18 is very controversial herself.

Then why is Piccolo allowed to 3-A but not 18? Piccolo isn't much stronger than 18 IIRC.

Also, weren't 17 and 18 always portrayed as equals in DBZ. Why is 17 allowed to be 3-A but not 18?

 

[Dark649]

The moment Krillin is made 3-A via obtuse backwards powerscaling is the moment I give up.
I don't mind more people scaling, and guys like 17 are good examples of characters who contend with heavy hitters, but there should seriously be some logical stopping point so this isn't applied to literally everyone.

That's Toei writing, but the truth is that it is impossible to scale super since its nature and because people will always disagree with the profiles no matter where we place them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dark649

You can't justify anything as not being an outlier as "Toei Writing". You need to have some restraint on your end as well. Krillin will never become 3-A and even 17 is controversial.

regardless, 17 trained since the Android Saga. 18 never trained and Krillin is still weaker than her.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with Azzy and Matt. 3-A Krillin, Tien and Roshi are like a big no. Even 18 is very controversial herself.

Then why is Piccolo allowed to 3-A but not 18? Piccolo isn't much stronger than 18 IIRC.
Also, weren't 17 and 18 always portrayed as equals in DBZ. Why is 17 allowed to be 3-A but not 18?

Piccolo has actually trained? 17 has actually trained? Piccolo has fought the likes of Frost while 17 fought the likes of SSB Goku AND Ribrianne. Who of worth has 18 fought yet? A random Pride Trooper and Green Dog? The best feat she has is kicking away a SSB Kamehameha that wasn't even directed at her.

 

[Dark649]

Then why is Piccolo allowed to 3-A but not 18? Piccolo isn't much stronger than 18 IIRC. Also, weren't 17 and 18 always portrayed as equals in DBZ. Why is 17 allowed to be 3-A but not 18?

It is better to wait as 18 is going to likely fight Frost, also this thread has turned much worse than i thought, coupled with many comments means that soon i will close this thread

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's Toei writing, but the truth is that it is impossible to scale super since its nature and because people will always disagree with the profiles no matter where we place them.

Toei is definitely bad at it, but it's something prevalent in all of fiction. There always has to be some sort of stopping point in cases like this.

I can guarantee you I can backwards scale hard enough to make Krak missiles 4-A, and it would make just as much sense. There are times you just need to realize something isn't quite right in scaling cases such as these, and that's usually based on context.

 

[HST_Master]

Then why is Piccolo allowed to 3-A but not 18? Piccolo isn't much stronger than 18 IIRC.

Also, weren't 17 and 18 always portrayed as equals in DBZ. Why is 17 allowed to be 3-A but not 18?

Piccolo was actually able to choke out Gohan who had been fighting with SSJ Goku

And 17 was always the stronger one out of the two of him and 18

 

[LordGinSama]

This thread is getting very long. Is there anything else to discuss after we finish the scaling issue? If so I'd suggest making a part two or something along the lines of that.