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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 88
- Thread starter ArgosaxDespair
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I can't find the kazenshuu links anymore but i found back the link to other sites that said the sameAKM sama said:
In both Toriyama clearly say it follow the anime and only mention the manga as a totaly seperated thing.
If you were asking about Toyotaro making it canon to his manga, you can see the pages here
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Is discord broken for you guys?
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It was for a while, yes. It's ok now.Zamasu Chan said:
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Just select the sentence and click on the little button called "Add link" given below, between italic and add photo. Then copy-paste the link in "Target page and URL" textbox. You can also change the "Text to display".
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Another Goku Massacre?
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I really hope Vegeta finally gets his '''W''' man. He's earned it.
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AKM sama said:
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I completly disagree, if we are talking about earning anything, Bulma, Krillin and Piccolo, in that order, earned it a billion time more.
Except none of them have been humiliated as much as Vegeta, or training as hard just to always be one step behind Goku. Or even sometimes outright denied his victory like in RoF for instance. Vegeta has been grinding too hard for too long imo. The only one who comes close is Piccolo. Bulma isn't even a fighter lol so she was never even in the conversation to defeat anyone. Her role was always that of support even in OG DB. Krillin is pretty impressive, for a human, but he'll never be on that level without massive PIS lol.
Except none of them have been humiliated as much as Vegeta, or training as hard just to always be one step behind Goku. Or even sometimes outright denied his victory like in RoF for instance. Vegeta has been grinding too hard for too long imo. The only one who comes close is Piccolo. Bulma isn't even a fighter lol so she was never even in the conversation to defeat anyone. Her role was always that of support even in OG DB. Krillin is pretty impressive, for a human, but he'll never be on that level without massive PIS lol.
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Vegeta was only humiliated when he deserved it, IE the namek saga and the Cell fight, any other time was a situation where everyone was getting rekt and he doesn't train any harder than the other characters as far as we know, if anything, by DBS, he just train dumber.
He wasn't denied everything, he basicaly stole the scraps left by Goku and then pulled a Gohan by not finishing Freezer when he could.
Bulma did more than litteraly everyone except Goku, the win doesn't need to be in a fight.
C17 just show up and he is SSJB tier, if that pass, you can give a win to Krillin one way or another.
He wasn't denied everything, he basicaly stole the scraps left by Goku and then pulled a Gohan by not finishing Freezer when he could.
Bulma did more than litteraly everyone except Goku, the win doesn't need to be in a fight.
C17 just show up and he is SSJB tier, if that pass, you can give a win to Krillin one way or another.
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2020 is a weird year : https://twitter.com/BlackYoshiSSB/status/1239660707911696384?s=20
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C17 isn't a regular human tho, and was stated by Toriyama to have massive potential. Not to mention he was already stronger than a SSJ at the beginning and trained for 10 years to get to Blue tier. But anyway, Krillin definitely doesn't train as hard as Vegeta lol.
And to say that he "Deserved" what Frieza did to him.. idk about that. I mean he was a terrible person of course, but much of it can be attributed to his environment and upbringing. Biggest proof of it is his character development on earth. He evolved into arguably a better human than even Goku. He cares deeply for his family in a more traditionally "Human" way, unlike Goku who's a bit more detached from standard human responsibilities or social cues. In DBS it's pretty easy to argue that Goku is far more in touch with his Saiyan heritage than Vegeta, who's grown more human and domesticated.
But that doesn't stop Vegeta from still pursuing his goals as a martial artist, and his drive is stronger than ever.
Against Cell, even Goku made many dumb selfish decisions that Put everyone, starting with his own Child, at risk. So Cell saga CIS evens out between both of them imo.
And to say that he "Deserved" what Frieza did to him.. idk about that. I mean he was a terrible person of course, but much of it can be attributed to his environment and upbringing. Biggest proof of it is his character development on earth. He evolved into arguably a better human than even Goku. He cares deeply for his family in a more traditionally "Human" way, unlike Goku who's a bit more detached from standard human responsibilities or social cues. In DBS it's pretty easy to argue that Goku is far more in touch with his Saiyan heritage than Vegeta, who's grown more human and domesticated.
But that doesn't stop Vegeta from still pursuing his goals as a martial artist, and his drive is stronger than ever.
Against Cell, even Goku made many dumb selfish decisions that Put everyone, starting with his own Child, at risk. So Cell saga CIS evens out between both of them imo.
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Krillin outside of retiring was never noted to train any less than Vegeta, nothing like that is implied.
No, he deserved it 500%, he tortured whole species, getting his ass kicked and forced to cry was the least he deserved, he was even considered evil by saiyan standard and said himself he couldn't give a shit about them.
No, he is not arguably a better person than Goku, he is a barely repentent repeated genocider who murder a hundreds of people even after 'reforming' because he got jealouse of Goku again, as far as we know, Vegeta isn't even sorry about anything he's done except the Majin thing.
He care so much for them that Bulma say him being gone for 6 month is no change and him having to be with them for 1 day lead to him throwing a tantrum and storming off in public midway through.
Knowing social cues doesn't make you a better person.
Goku has nothing to do with how saiyans were, at all, even the nicest saiyans didn't think much of trempling on weaker people and destroying species.
No, Goku didn't, the worst Goku did in that arc is agree with everyone else to not stop Gero and his reason was the only one that had something other than 'i want to fight them' since he also wasn't comfortable with attacking Gero when the old man had done nothing yet as far as he know.
No, Cell put Gohan in danger and Gohan's hesitation put him in danger to, everyone else was in danger because they were much weaker than Cell, thanks to Vegeta.
No, he deserved it 500%, he tortured whole species, getting his ass kicked and forced to cry was the least he deserved, he was even considered evil by saiyan standard and said himself he couldn't give a shit about them.
No, he is not arguably a better person than Goku, he is a barely repentent repeated genocider who murder a hundreds of people even after 'reforming' because he got jealouse of Goku again, as far as we know, Vegeta isn't even sorry about anything he's done except the Majin thing.
He care so much for them that Bulma say him being gone for 6 month is no change and him having to be with them for 1 day lead to him throwing a tantrum and storming off in public midway through.
Knowing social cues doesn't make you a better person.
Goku has nothing to do with how saiyans were, at all, even the nicest saiyans didn't think much of trempling on weaker people and destroying species.
No, Goku didn't, the worst Goku did in that arc is agree with everyone else to not stop Gero and his reason was the only one that had something other than 'i want to fight them' since he also wasn't comfortable with attacking Gero when the old man had done nothing yet as far as he know.
No, Cell put Gohan in danger and Gohan's hesitation put him in danger to, everyone else was in danger because they were much weaker than Cell, thanks to Vegeta.
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Actually he does feel sorry for what he's done. Remember the beginning of the Moro arc on new Namek? He was clearly sorry for what he'd done. While Goku endangered the whole multi-verse for his entertainment lol. And don't start with the whole Zeno was gonna kill everyone anyway because Goku didn't know that lol.
Also forcing his son to fight in a death match when he clearly doesn't want to sounds noble to you? Even giving cell a senzu bean for sport lol. Goku is unquestionably selfish.
Also forcing his son to fight in a death match when he clearly doesn't want to sounds noble to you? Even giving cell a senzu bean for sport lol. Goku is unquestionably selfish.
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Sorry lolAKM sama said:
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That's not the main continuity and HOW he was sorry was very out of character, that's not how Vegeta act when he's sorry, just look at the final atonement or when he punch Trunks.UchihaSlayer96 said:
Goku endangered nothing, he wanted a normal tournament like the U6 tournament and got lucky it led to saving all 12 universe instead of condemning most of them like Zeno had already planned.
Goku didn't know Zeno would just make a 'loser die' rule either, you can't discount one but try to use the other.
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@Dragomer
It's not out of character it's just character development. Like when he was so anxious for the birth of his daughter, and left training for it. Denying that Vegeta has changed is a bit silly imo.
And DBS is canon lol, so it IS the main continuity.
And actually Goku did know thr potential dangers of the tournament, as Whis and Beerus kept warning him about it over and over. He just chose to ignore them.
Also read my edit.
It's not out of character it's just character development. Like when he was so anxious for the birth of his daughter, and left training for it. Denying that Vegeta has changed is a bit silly imo.
And DBS is canon lol, so it IS the main continuity.
And actually Goku did know thr potential dangers of the tournament, as Whis and Beerus kept warning him about it over and over. He just chose to ignore them.
Also read my edit.
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I think he was referring to the Manga.UchihaSlayer96 said:
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I think he was referring to the Manga.
Also canon, and Moro arc isn't animated yet anyway. So manga is only canon for that arc. Plus the anime doesn't contradict anything I said.
Also canon, and Moro arc isn't animated yet anyway. So manga is only canon for that arc. Plus the anime doesn't contradict anything I said.
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No, it isn't character developement, it's being out of character, this is not how Vegeta show remorse, look at the final atonement or when he punched Trunks.UchihaSlayer96 said:
The manga is secondary at best.
No, he didn't, Beerus and Whis just go whiny about Zeno like they always do and if Goku had listened to them from the start, he wouldn't have shaked hands with him and Infinite Zamasu would have killed them, he choose to keep doing what had been working since he start.
Goku forced nothing on Gohan, Gohan explicitly wanted to do it and if anyone was forcing anything, it was Cell because no one could anything about him except Gohan, giving Cell a senzu had no influence on anything except mess with him and show goodwill so he didn't kill them all out of annoyance at Goku giving up, dude regenerate and has two infinite cyborgs as spare parts.
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Lol Gohan wanted to fight Cell? What? He explicitly said that he doesn't want to. And only gave into it after he transformed. Gohan is one of the least characters interested in fighting unless it's necessary. It's kind of a major thing in his character man. He's more interested in studying and being with his family.
Also Showing remorse for almost genociding the Namekians is out of character how? The final atonement was a totally different situation. He was saying goodbye to his son and knocked him out so Piccolo can carry him to safety lol. Not the same case.
And imo manga is more canon if anything because it has more Toriyama involvement than the Anime.
Also Showing remorse for almost genociding the Namekians is out of character how? The final atonement was a totally different situation. He was saying goodbye to his son and knocked him out so Piccolo can carry him to safety lol. Not the same case.
And imo manga is more canon if anything because it has more Toriyama involvement than the Anime.
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No, Gohan explicitly wanted to fight, he even yelled at Goku to train him seriously in the ROSAT.UchihaSlayer96 said:
No, what Gohan was reluctant to do is let his rage overtake him so he could unleash his full power, he had no hesitation to step up there or to go to namek before.
Being more interested
Showing remorse that way is, yes.
No, it was the same, he ****** up and felt bad, that's how Vegeta act when he recognize it, he doesn't act like a stock ex bad guy.
Your opinion is factualy incorrect, Toriyama isn't more involvedwith the manga and every official statement by Toriyama put the anime forth first with the manga as a promotional after though.
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Toyotaro has stated multiple times that Toriyama has been involved in the manga and consistently gives feedback, something that hasn't been said for the anime. Both Toei and Toyotaro get the same Toriyama manuscripts for each arc and adapt them in their own way. So both are canon in a weird way.
And the Manga was initially promotional but has since then evolved as Toyotaro does his own thing and changes a lot from the anime. You can accept the anime as more canon if you want, but the manga isn't any less canon. And we'll have to wait until the anime returns to see how different it'll be in the Moro arc. If it follows the manga that'll solidify the manga as canon.
And the Manga was initially promotional but has since then evolved as Toyotaro does his own thing and changes a lot from the anime. You can accept the anime as more canon if you want, but the manga isn't any less canon. And we'll have to wait until the anime returns to see how different it'll be in the Moro arc. If it follows the manga that'll solidify the manga as canon.
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