Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 66: It never ends

[MeleeniumRXJ]

This scene makes sense now! Guru wanted to depower Frieza!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CabWmsaRoOI

 

[Warren_Valion]

"Guru is so fat".

 

[ZERO7772]

You know I never though about it but , the final fight in DBS does not make sense now I look back to it. Like, you have power up jiren overwhelming both no17 and Golden frieza but somehow base Goke make a different when he comes THEN you have final form Frieza taking on even more power up Jiren and with the help with Goke they beat Jiren

Unless you wanna argue jiren burned up himself again for short boost shit make no sense....

 

[Warren_Valion]

>Unless yiu wanna argue jiren burned up himself again for short boost shit make no sense....


>Implying Dragon Ball Super makes sense.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

You know I never though about it but , the final fight in DBS does not make sense now I look back to it. Like, you have power up jiren overwhelming both no17 and Golden frieza but somehow base Goke make a different when he comes THEN you have final form Frieza taking on even more power up Jiren and with the help with Goke they beat Jiren
Unless yiu wanna argue jiren burned up himself again for short boost shit make no sense....

Agreed.

 

[AKM sama]

Jiren was already beaten up badly and weakened. Him burning himself up for a short boost makes perfect sense to me.

 

[JackJoyce]

So in the manga Anilaza is apparently weaker than Kale. Gohan is going to potentially hold his own against Kefla who is potentially weaker than Kale. The namekians that were SSB lvl in the anime were eliminated by Kale in the manga. The other SSG-SSB lvl fighters in the anime like Maji Kayo and maybe Obuni are probably not that strong and was also eliminated in one chapter. Did i miss anything?

Wut! This makes no sense

 

[JackJoyce]

learned a new trick

RIP Physics

 

[Peter1129]

DBS fandom about Broly and Kale in a nutshell

 

[ByAsura]

There's no reason to believe that the fight between Broly and Goku is plot armor. We haven't seen the movie come out, and his base form was shown to compare to Frieza.

But there is a reason to believe Kale's is back then.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Manga English translation is out.

• Kale's strength is confirmed to fluctuate. Cabba mentions that it keeps rising as she loses her senses.
• Vegeta says that she's already losing power by the time she gets overwhelmed by Universe 11. Universe 11 also has the advantage because of their superior coordination, not their power. Beerus says that anyone of them alone is nothing special. Kale's movements were so predictable that they could easily dodge and find openings.
• Kefla's power consists of Kale's and Caulifla's, BUT her mind is fully intact, so her power isn't unstable and doesn't rise by the passing of time like Kale's.

The last point I believe its the reason Gohan can deflect her full blast and face her head on. Kale's power was rising abnormaly and you must have observe her movements and so through speed or teamwork to beat her head on. Kefla on other hand doesn't rise her power all the time but she is stable and fast.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Manga follows better powerscaling,there is no SSB lvl SS2 Universe 6 characters and other staff.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

DBS fandom about Broly and Kale in a nutshell

Cause it's Big Dick Broly

 

[ZERO7772]

"Comparing the Broly wannabe rip off lesbian bait to the chad legendary Saiyan who been bodying the Z fighters for the past 2 decades ~"

Broly is allowed to be OP but Kale? pfffft

 

[SomebodyData]

Manga follows better powerscaling,there is no SSB lvl SS2 Universe 6 characters and other staff.

Didn't Gohan straight up say he is gonna take on Kefla lol?

 

[Ryukama]

Didn't Gohan straight up say he is gonna take on Kefla lol?

After Kale beat the shit out of Golden Frieza

 

[Peter1129]

Manga follows better powerscaling,there is no SSB lvl SS2 Universe 6 characters and other staff.

How is it better powerscaling when LSS Kale who is much stronger than MSSB gets beat up by fodder Pride Troopers when previously Goku manhandled all of them with just SS1. Also from the looks of it Gohan knocked away a Ki blast from Kefla that was intended to knock out Goku and Jiren not in Ultimate form but in base.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Ryukama

But before Vegeta said it was purely a power transformation.

This is basically the Dypso situation + the entire 17 and Gohan = SSB thing only this time its a fusion of a MSSB tiered character and another, and this seems to be Gohan's base form.

 

[Peter1129]

At this point I'm pretty sure the anime has better powerscaling. Like seriously other than Ribrianne and a couple other characters there's not that much powerscaling problems other than character bias in the anime. If Toyotaro somehow makes Gohan win against Kefla than yeah it's official Manga ToP powerscaling is terrible.

 

[JackJoyce]

Gohan Blanco is real. I'm calling it!!!!

 

[Warren_Valion]

We need a new thread soon.

 

[ZERO7772]

In case anyone missed this, Frieza is with Broly and Pragus but it doesn't seems he will take part in the fight on Earth which is confusing because the Frieza vs Broly fight may happen at the beginning of the film before they come to Earth or maybe Broly backfire at Frieza at some point?

 

[Ryukama]

My prediction is Frieza enrolled Broly and Paragus into his army, but he got betrayed so now he's got to fight Broly.

 

[ByAsura]

Hopefully he'll stomp Broly so it wouldn't retcon his Saiyans are monkey weaklings attitude.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Considering his reaction to Broly in the trailer.. I heaviy, heavily doubt he'll be doing the stomping.

 

[Ryukama]

Also Broly never gets stomped until the last few minutes of the movie cause the plot requires it you know that.

 

[ByAsura]

I was just talking about if he did it in the past, because i thought that's what Ryuk was talking about.

 

[AKM sama]

The only good things in the manga were gore and it's consistent powerscaling. Now the powerscaling is even worse than the anime and the manga this arc is sucking big time.

I think the fight between Freeza and Broly which we saw in the trailer is when Freeza meets Broly for the first time and then seeing how huge his potential is, he recruits Broly and Paragus in his army so that he can use them against Goku and Vegeta.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Peter1129

Kefla stopped growing stronger after fusion if i don't miss something,she isn't stronger than Kale.

when LSS Kale who is much stronger than MSSB gets beat up by fodder Pride Troopers

They didn't beat her only via brute force.Reread the chapter,it was stated why they handeled her.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The only good things in the manga were gore and it's consistent powerscaling. Now the powerscaling is even worse than the anime and the manga this arc is sucking big time.
I think the fight between Freeza and Broly which we saw in the trailer is when Freeza meets Broly for the first time and then seeing how huge his potential is, he recruits Broly and Paragus in his army so that he can use them against Goku and Vegeta.

I disagree.

The planet around them looks like it is on its last legs, similar to Planet Namek in his final minutes. If you look at the end of the trailer when Broly is entering his LSSJ state, the Planet looks the same as does when Broly is fighting Frieza.

So unless two separate dying planets in this movie, it is not going to before he recruits Broly, but after he gets betrayed.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Peter1129
Kefla stopped growing stronger after fusion if i don't miss something,she isn't stronger than Kale.

when LSS Kale who is much stronger than MSSB gets beat up by fodder Pride Troopers

They didn't beat her only via brute force.Reread the chapter,it was stated why they handeled her.

I mean, getting beat up because your transformation only enhances power and being predictable is no where near better, as they still have to be relatively almost as strong as her.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

@Peter1129
Kefla stopped growing stronger after fusion if i don't miss something,she isn't stronger than Kale.

when LSS Kale who is much stronger than MSSB gets beat up by fodder Pride Troopers

They didn't beat her only via brute force.Reread the chapter,it was stated why they handeled her.

I mean, getting beat up because your transformation only enhances power and being predictable is no where near better, as they still have to be relatively almost as strong as her.

They aren't actually injuring her, though, they're just knocking her around. There's no scuff marks on her or anything, until after Vegeta says she's starting to lose power.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Korudo she was in pain and getting beat even before Vegeta says that (And I'm pretty sure she's losing power because she's getting beat up). And even then, being knocked around is pretty bad as well, you still have to be somewhat close in power.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

@Korudo she was in pain and getting beat even before Vegeta says that (And I'm pretty sure she's losing power because she's getting beat up). And even then, being knocked around is pretty bad as well, you still have to be somewhat close in power.

It was also explicitly explained that the transformation backfires after a while. The statement about her already losing power is based on that. The teamwork of U11 was only serving to hold her back long enough for the detriments of the transformation to start making themselves apparent.

 

[SomebodyData]

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/dragon-ball-super-chapter-38/chapter/8448

Going from Viz's translation, the backfire is self-destruction. Going in the order everything is stated, Vegeta's statement about her losing power is after he remarks she can't do anything against them due to lack of speed and her getting beat up, hence in context its because she's getting beat up, not because of it backfiring. And even before both of that she was already getting hurt by them, (Page 24-25). Had Vegeta said she is losing power because of the backfiring after a while, you would have a point, but not only does Vegeta not even talk about the self destruction, he says everything after Universe 11 begins the smackdown.

 

[ByAsura]

^ Wow, that chapter was awful. Well, at least the first half.

 

[SomebodyData]

Eh, I've gotten used to the power scaling issues so for me the chapter wasn't that bad. Personally I like the manga for explaining the transformations and the fight scenes, whereas the anime for its worldbuilding and humor.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

That's a pretty solid way of interpreting the two Data.

 

[ByAsura]

@Data

I wasn't really talking about the powerscaling issues, i don't mind them either. It was more how they half-assed it a little.

The Anime went way too much into filler, and this just cuts off entire portions of the story, like Olibu and Anilaza.

Obviously this is just an opinion though.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Delta thanks

@ByAsura Ah I see. I kinda feel that the filler is a mixed bag, some parts of the filler should definitely not have been there, but other parts, specifically ones around the Z-Fighters, were needed to avoid the show becoming The Goku and Vegeta Show. But I can see your opinion as well.