Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 41

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

So, according to manga chapter 26, Beerus can't kill immortals..

How Goku's Hakai would work then? So It wouldn't work...

 

[Darkinx]

I'm assuming Goku's hakai would've failer either way. Zamasu would have regenerated from nothing.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I'm assuming Goku's hakai would've failer either way. Zamasu would have regenerated from nothing.

That's what I was thinking. And this makes his immortality quite something. DB nerfs it a lot...

 

[Shock97]

@RadicalMrR

I didn't mind the manga having Vegito stomp Merged Zamasu. Vegito is special because of how ridiculously powerful he is, so seeing him casually play around again for the first time in years put a smile on my face. Either way manga or anime his inclusion was just fanservice he should have been more relevant and actually been the one to bring down Zamasu.

"making him a relevant character in his own arc. In the manga Trunks played support distracting Zamasu and healing Goku. "

Wouldn't he be relevant then? Before the fusion Zamasu and Black used a simialr strategy to close the gap. Trunks did what he could and providing support is nothing to scoff at the whole reason he went to Goku and Co for help was because he couldn't save his timeline on his own. Him healing also gave the other shin purpose since he acquired the ability from training with them. Besides he still accomplished plenty of stand-out moments, if the concern is no one remembering him doing anything badass in the manga look no further than the panels of him being pragmatic enough to impale Black while he was down and split Merged Zamasu in half when the fusion was having problems.

The manga did miss out on the chance to portray Zamasus slow decent into madness so I'll agree with that. His characterization in the manga feels slighted.

I agree

 

[Shock97]

So, according to manga chapter 26, Beerus can't kill immortals..

Do you know what was said?

 

[Darkinx]

Here it is: http://i.imgur.com/4pf0fas.jpg

 

[Shock97]

Here it is: http://i.imgur.com/4pf0fas.jpg

thx. I can't remember do we get clarification in the anime if Hakai can kill immortals?

 

[Darkinx]

In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

 

[Shock97]

In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

Thx. Also the Viz translation has him just say he can't kill "Gods", which is interesting wording.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

Goku also said that even Beerus can not kill an Immortal like Zamasu in the anime... Beerus didn't deny it...

 

[Darkinx]

In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

Thx. Also the Viz translation has him just say he can't kill "Gods", which is interesting wording.

It's a mistake. They corrected gods with immortals in the latest version

 

[Giygas3]

So... I can apparently say this is supporting evidence that Zeno truly did destroy the whole timeline, instead of one universe. Neat.

Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regenerationn right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regenerationn right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga.

Isn't supposed to be Mid-Godly?? I haven't followed the manga much but if Zamasu can return from the Hakai then he would be returning from non-existence unless his soul remained.

 

[Darkinx]

So... I can apparently say this is supporting evidence that Zeno truly did destroy the whole timeline, instead of one universe. Neat.
Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regenerationn right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga.

Beerus's Hakai did not affect Zamasu in the anime as well. There is no downgrade

 

[Giygas3]

"Beerus's Hakai did not affect Zamasu in the anime as well. There is no downgrade"

Oh, I know it's no downgrade. However, Beerus never used Hakai on Future Zamasu. So we never actually knew if his immortality could've survived a Hakai from Beerus, which now we have a statement to support that the Immortality Regenerationn ranges from Low-Godly, or Mid-Godly. I'm unsure of the latter.

This would be an upgrade on Future Zamasu Regenerationn if anything. (I know we don't use the manga, so we probably won't be changing the profile)

 

[Shock97]

I love details like this in the manga. Pilaf is useful, I knew his intellect was high but this is great lol.

 

[Joseph619]

Oh, I know it's no downgrade. However, Beerus never used Hakai on Future Zamasu. So we never actually knew if his immortality could've survived a Hakai from Beerus, which now we have a statement to support that the Immortality Regenerationn ranges from Low-Godly, or Mid-Godly. I'm unsure of the latter.

Zamasu will only get godly if he actually regenerates. Beerus being unable to kill Zamasu is not a Regenerationn feat.

 

[Giygas3]

That makes no sense to me. How else does he survive Hakai aside from Regenerating? Unless you want to tell me he will get erase from his physical and spiritual form, essentially getting his entire existence erase, and still being "alive" without somehow regenerating from it? At that point, you aren't alive.

 

[Joseph619]

By resisting existence erasure? Not everybody is vulnerable to existence erasure. By the way, Frieza survived hakai just fine without regenerating in the anime

To get Regenerationn, you have to regenerate first

 

[Giygas3]

On the contary, he didn't resist it. It worked fine when Goku used it on Fusion Zamasu, but now when Beerus who has full control over it, it magically won't work on him? That still makes no sense to me.

Goku statement was "Oh, so your technique is great enough to beat an Immortal." Then Beerus responds with "No, I can't an immortal. (There are different translations, but I'm going by Herms translation he made towards it)

But If you consider getting erase from existence from physical and spirtual form, without being able to regenerate from it and saying he couldn't "beat" him with it. Then I don't know what will.

 

[Joseph619]

Once again, you only get Regenerationn if you regenerate. Neither Beerus nor Goku killed or destroy Fusion Zamasu, and Zamasu didn't regenerate. So he won't get Regenerationn, low godly that is. I don't see why it's hard to understand

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not only that, wasn't this a manga feat? It wouldn't count either way.

 

[Giygas3]

I know it wouldn't, That is why I said we wouldn't count it. But for the manga, and manga only. I'm saying he has pontential Low-Godly Regenerationn.

Then tell me how he doesn't kill him from getting erase to such a degree, and still being considered "alive" when he is clearly shown to be affected by Hakai. I just don't understand how that works, but it's fiction so anything can go.

 

[Joseph619]

All contradictory/alternate from the anime in the manga are invalid anyway, so it doesn't matter. Nor that it would make in much difference if it did since nothing noteworthy happened

 

[Joseph619]

Giygas, you need to regenerate to get Regenerationn. That's it, nothing more or less. I have trouble understanding why you don't understand this. Why do you find it complicated?

 

[Giygas3]

Same reason how you're still alive without regenerating. You are destroyed to such a degree, that your very being is erased. How do still consider that being "alive"? I suppose we don't see eye to eye with this, so I'm just going to drop it. Not like it truly matters as you said.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You do know resistances are a thing right?

 

[Giygas3]

Again, Zamasu has no resistance against Hakai. Goku was literally about to erase him without using Mai as a shield. This conversation isn't going anywhere either way, so it's best if we drop it.

 

[Joseph619]

Same reason how you're still alive without regenerating. You are destroyed to such a degree, that your very being is erased. How do still consider that being "alive"? I suppose we don't see eye to eye with this, so I'm just going to drop it. Not like it truly matters as you said.

Your definition of Regenerationn is very unique, I haven't seen anything like this so far online. But what you're saying is not Regenerationn, it's simply resistance or immunity

 

[Giygas3]

Alright, we're getting somewhere now. So I'll give my last take on this. It isn't immunity since he has shown to be affected from it from Goku, In which case, Beerus should have no trouble replicating. He also wasn't shown to be able to resisist it quite well, as he was being force to use someone as a shield. (Why even use someone as a shield if you can survive it? Is beyond me) The only indiction to me is regenerating to stay alive. As that was the main point of his Immortality in the first place, or at least a huge chunk of what made it so potent.

Either way, It won't be added. So I don't really see a point of discussing it any longer.

 

[Darkinx]

Didn't Zamasu regenerate from Goku's Hakai? His body parts which were hakai'd by Goku actually regenerated.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I believe that did happen but it was in the manga only.

 

[Sidali891]

No, Giygas3 is right. Manga Zamasu literally regenrated from Hakai (albeit, regnerated from having half his body erased.) That is no resistence feat, it's simply regenration.

 

[Joseph619]

No, Giygas3 is right. Manga Zamasu literally regenrated from Hakai (albeit, regnerated from having half his body erased.) That is no resistence feat, it's simply regenration.

He's asking for low godly since Beerus cant kill Zamasu

 

[FTW395]

Yup giygas is right, Zamasu only survived the Hakai because he was immortal, he has no resistance to it.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Wait so Beerus said he couldnt kill Zamasu but then later we see Hakai working on Zamasu. How does he have a resistence to an attack that was working on him?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Beerus used Hakai on present Zamasu (it worked) but future Zamasu was protected by his Immortality so he was unaffected by the move.

 

[RadicalMrR]

But wasnt Goku's hakai destroying him?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

In the manga, yes but I'm talking about the anime.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Yeah in the anime he resisted it.