Dragon ball revision

[Missy0124]

Super vs GT

Both have notes by Toriyama

And Both are projects sell extra bucks

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehh, there's supposed to be a revision going on here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This doesn't really sound like a Content Revision at all; just some unfinished OP of some sort...

 

[Missy0124]

the point of this is to state if super is considered by the fan base to canon so should gt as a sub catoriergogy in arcticle at least like the movies or toei filler chars

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There are plans to move the Anime Filler characters and Movie characters to the Dragon Ball GT page and renaming it to Dragon Ball (Toei) or something. But yes, what we consider the main canon are the Dragon Ball mange followed by Dragon Ball Super Anime. The Anime of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT are all part of a separate continuity altogether.

 

[AguilaR101]

What

 

[Missy0124]

i don't think super should be not canon due to its contrdictions on power scaling and story elements being badly fitted in and being anime orginl sequel which makks it non canon as does gt

 

[Antoniofer]

Irregular scaling its something proper of Toei, Tori is considerable better doing it. Yes, super has few contradictions like the existance of Gregory, but here is still considered the main canon.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Uh no. Not gonna happen; not now, not ever. Dragon Ball Super is canon to the main series as stated by Toriyama. He also confirmed GT as being Non-canon. And it does not mess up power scaling; and a massive nit pick to say so. There are plenty of PIS moments yes, but there's also plenty of in depth feats and lore to make up that.

 

[Missy0124]

they both mess up power scaling toriyama has no involment with dragon ball since gt and only written minus and broly which are anime orginal and he never confrimed the canon of anything except the games and movies which were obvious to begin with and roshi being wanked

 

[Missy0124]

Uh no. Not gonna happen; not now, not ever. Dragon Ball Super is canon to the main series as stated by Toriyama. He also confirmed GT as being Non-canon. And it does not mess up power scaling; and a massive nit pick to say so. There are plenty of PIS moments yes, but there's also plenty of in depth feats and lore to make up that.

when did he confrimed it was non canon he said it was grand side story if anything that proves it is conon mind you as a side story to grand mythos of dragon ball z like super is to z

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, Toriyama is involved with Dragon Ball Super. People help him yes, but he did officially approve it to be canon. And saying, "Master Roshi is too strong" is not a good argument; he secretly trained to grow much stronger.

And he announced that he had little involvement in Dragon Ball GT and that Super has changed a lot of things that would contradict GT. Still, Super is literally proven to be canon and GT is only canon to the Toei timeline, not the original manga. Don't get the two mixed up.

 

[Antoniofer]

Tori was the one that brought the idea of Super, he created it, he even sends notes to Toei (or used to since there's no current anime) for the anime and collaborate and correct Toyo in the manga. For more than you or us dislike, Super is canon.

And Roshi being too strong and overall messed scaling in anime is just bad writing, nothing to do with canon stuff.

 

[Missy0124]

Actually, Toriyama is involved with Dragon Ball Super. People help him yes, but he did officially approve it to be canon. And saying, "Master Roshi is too strong" is not a good argument; he secretly trained to grow much stronger.
And he announced that he had little involvement in Dragon Ball GT and that Super has changed a lot of things that would contradict GT. Still, Super is literally proven to be canon and GT is only canon to the Toei timeline, not the original manga. Don't get the two mixed up.

he wrote down basic scripts and chatacter designs for early gt which does with manga and anime of super and this so called toei timeline dont exist movies rarly share even basic plot points to say their is dumb and just a easy way to map stuff that dont according to your backwards map whichdont exist dragon ball is a mythous and does have one solid timeline unless dragon ball and z are counted which doest even sracth the surface of the fransice

 

[AguilaR101]

Though to be fair neither version of super is on the same level of canon as the original manga given they're both adaptattions from toriyama's rough draft filled with their own original content.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The difference is that he was the one who actually led the work for Super and the Manga; he was merely the art designer for GT and had no involvement in the story writing unlike Super. And again, Toriyama himself said Dragon Ball Super is canon and that GT is not. And GT, Anime fillers, and Movies do reference each other time and time again actually, so that point is moot.

 

[Missy0124]

The difference is that he was the one who actually led the work for Super and the Manga; he was merely the art designer for GT and had no involvement in the story writing unlike Super. And again, Toriyama himself said Dragon Ball Super is canon and that GT is not. And GT, Anime fillers, and Movies do reference each other time and time again actually, so that point is moot.

keyword is time to time which is rare mind you and yes he did work on early gt but does inot have much nvolment with super ether besides a few notes and you stating is not canon is not offical and as i stated before he said a grand side side story to the dragon mythous which does make it more valid than something like xenoverse db and dbz are the only pieces are untouched for canon and will forever be but super is replacement for mind you the less gt and only reason why he made super was cause money and evolution

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neither Xenoverse nor Dragon Ball GT are canon. Being closer to the canon =/= being a primary canon. Dragon Ball Super on the other hand is approved by Toriyama to be a true following to the original manga. Though yes, both the Anime and the manga versions of Super are approved, but the manga is more of an adaptation to the anime as well as the Anime version being more consistent. Master Roshi even stood up to Jiren in the manga. Also, actually the Super Anime is more canon than the BoG and RoF movies.

Bottomline, we're still making Super canon. And also stop using long quotes.

 

[Antoniofer]

Though to be fair neither version of super is on the same level of canon as the original manga given they're both adaptattions from toriyama's rough draft filled with their own original content.

This, both anime and manga could be considered secundary canon to... a draft since both are adaptations; guess movies falls into the same place (refering to BoG and onwards).

 

[Missy0124]

Neither Xenoverse nor Dragon Ball GT are canon. Being closer to the canon =/= being a primary canon. Dragon Ball Super on the other hand is approved by Toriyama to be a true following to the original manga. Though yes, both the Anime and the manga versions of Super are approved, but the manga is more of an adaptation to the anime as well as the Anime version being more consistent. Master Roshi even stood up to Jiren in the manga.
Bottomline, we're still making Super canon. And also stop using long quotes.

you basicly are stating my option is fact and i could never change someone as stubborn as that plus gt was once canon before super was a thing may you address aside from this rumbling nonsense im calling a debate and gt from apporved by toriyama and on legal basis he kinda has to so stating he apporoved it is not a good point

 

[Antoniofer]

GT was canon to begin with.

Also, make notice that the manga is not adapting the anime, in fact when the manga was ahead to the anime the last one used manga panels as references for animating (reasons why they are pretty similar).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The arguments from the OP hold no weight and pure headcanon. Again, GT was canon to the Anime adaptation, it was never canon to the original manga. Dragon Ball Super is still Word of God confirmed to be the true follow up to the canon Dragon Ball manga. This was already brought up and discussed multiple times and turned out to be repetitive.

Also, comparing DBS Manga to the DBS Anime is the equivalent of comparing Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 Anime to the FMA Manga.

 

[Missy0124]

GT was canon to begin with.
Also, make notice that the manga is not adapting the anime, in fact when the manga was ahead to the anime the last one used manga panels as references for animating (reasons why they are pretty similar).

check your infomation mate before you try to school me Dragon Ball Super began airing in Japan on Fuji TV, July 5, 2015

Shueisha released the first volume of Dragon Ball Super in Japan on April 14, 2016

 

[Missy0124]

The arguments from the OP hold no weight and pure headcanon. Again, GT was canon to the Anime adaptation, it was never canon to the original manga. Dragon Ball Super is still Word of God confirmed to be the true follow up to the canon Dragon Ball manga. This was already brought up and discussed multiple times and turned out to be repetitive.
Also, comparing DBS Manga to the DBS Anime is the equivalent of comparing Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 Anime to the FMA Manga.

gt was a canon at as well so nonsense plus anime was made first so it takes prevalnce if you know things work which you dont obivously as you come at false facts like the date thing just change your argumnt later cause it doest hold up and fma is differerent since brotherhood is the pure manga apation while 2003 did apated the manga contined past it which is way different them being prodecued at the same time and getting feed basic scrpit infomateion and character designs which mind you are apated from a movie so heroes is canon cause it apated from a game now and its approved cause its legal production which has to authourized ill rehost this debate with previously said arguments if no one can debunk prove me false facts instead real infomation and context

 

[Antoniofer]

Are you sure? Checking the dates, manga started just the previus month, in june; it has sense since it release one chapter any month since the first number and 43 months has passed since then, just like the number of chapter.

But that is unrelated to your question, the point is that GT, along with Toei anime (classic, Z, movies and Kai), aren't canon: the notes made by Toriyama along with designes were similar to suggestions, he didn't write the movies nor the filler.

 

[Missy0124]

Are you sure? Checking the dates, manga started just the previus month, in june; it has sense since it release one chapter any month since the first number and 43 months has passed since then, just like the number of chapter.
But that is unrelated to your question, the point is that GT, along with Toei anime (classic, Z, movies and Kai), aren't canon: the notes made by Toriyama along with designes were similar to suggestions, he didn't write the movies nor the filler.

i checked the dates and i can source if you want manga is stiil in production but did not start first as i aready have stated twince so thanks for telling i aready know and the toei timeline dont exist since continuity between most movies unless their bio broly or movie sequel like collers revenge and notes part isstupid since you destroyed your argument of bein since its notes from toriyama like the rest of moden for a while and the movies he stated he was watcher i can source that quick if you want but imwasting time trying to explain something

 

[Missy0124]

Are you sure? Checking the dates, manga started just the previus month, in june; it has sense since it release one chapter any month since the first number and 43 months has passed since then, just like the number of chapter.
But that is unrelated to your question, the point is that GT, along with Toei anime (classic, Z, movies and Kai), aren't canon: the notes made by Toriyama along with designes were similar to suggestions, he didn't write the movies nor the filler.

you got any counte arguments or did you just just give up

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, this is starting to become a nonsensical troll thread now.

Anyway, the release date is 100% irrelevant if Word of God says otherwise. The original manga is the original canon, case closed since it was the very first thing started. But the Anime was merely an adaptation with numerous changes from the original manga. And GT followed the Anime's timeline and has many things showing from the Anime Filler and from movies; thus proving its more relevant to the Toei verse rather than the original manga canon.

Dragon Ball Super, despite being made long after GT or the classic Anime, is still more relevant and true to the original manga. And this holds true for both the Anime and Manga of DBS. And again, Toriyama himself approves this of being 100% canon. I will know that Dragon Ball Z Kai is another anime that is more faithful than the original Anime, but he still has notable differences that are different form the original Anime. Super is still a true follow up, and the first episode was released before the first volume of DBS Super.

Also, I really should closed this since it's rejected by multiple staff members and wasting some of our time. But I'm actually trying to be nice. I could message other knowledgeable staff members here, but I'm sure they'll say the same thing.

 

[Missy0124]

Okay, this is starting to become a nonsensical troll thread now.
Anyway, the release date is 100% irrelevant if Word of God says otherwise. The original manga is the original canon, case closed since it was the very first thing started. But the Anime was merely an adaptation with numerous changes from the original manga. And GT followed the Anime's timeline and has many things showing from the Anime Filler and from movies; thus proving its more relevant to the Toei verse rather than the original manga canon.

Dragon Ball Super, despite being made long after GT or the classic Anime, is still more relevant and true to the original manga. And this holds true for both the Anime and Manga of DBS. And again, Toriyama himself approves this of being 100% canon. I will know that Dragon Ball Z Kai is another anime that is more faithful than the original Anime, but he still has notable differences that are different form the original Anime. Super is still a true follow up, and the first episode was released before the first volume of DBS Super.

Also, I really should closed this since it's rejected by multiple staff members and wasting some of our time. But I'm actually trying to be nice. I could message other knowledgeable staff members here, but I'm sure they'll say the same thing.

a it follows the movie's basic plot relanvance and b just stop youre not winning and im goning to bebate people who can hold a debate and if you still have some senibalance of arugument join here i was gonna close this since you losing to debate who sense of the continuity and have not seen a single episode i held all my arguments on my own with support aginst three people that got trocued and all use HEADCANON WITH NO FACTS an KAI IS A RETELLING OF Z AND IS THE SAME SHOW how does that relate to super in the slightist and how is true to manga exactly gregory broly are things to refence for example cough couch minus cough jaco the patrollman and gt showed three seconds movie villians and has gogeta which is a fusion and should not be continutiy rescticted due to it being a form that anyone can if they know dance which they do

 

[Antoniofer]

I never said all the movies, anime and GT shares the same timeline (except by the exceptions), just that they were non-canon. Different from the movies, anime of GT, Tori writes Super, the draft of the story appart, and then he sents the notes to Toei to adapt it into animation, and checsk out Toyo's work for adapting it into manga; in what we consider non-canon is like this: Toei writers make the draft for a movie, then ask Toriyama for design a character or any other addition, he didn't write the movie/anime, he barely collaborated with designs or minor additions (such Piccolo's weakness).

Also, do math, if the manga would have started in 2016 it wouldn't have 42 chapters, it would have at most 35 (there has been always a chapter per month,,with no exceptions as for the date).

 

[Wokistan]

Someone send him a link to toryama's statement or something.

 

[Huesito88]

"you losing to debate who sense of the continuity and have not seen a single episode"

=/

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I've watched every single episode of the Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Z Kai, and Dragon Ball Super. Also, talking in condescending remarks like that isn't going to make your argument any better. You never use bold accusations such as "not watching a single episode" to people who disagree with you. In fact, doing so is just asking to be rejected.

 

[Missy0124]

I never said all the movies, anime and GT shares the same timeline (except by the exceptions), just that they were non-canon. Different from the movies, anime of GT, Tori writes Super, the draft of the story appart, and then he sents the notes to Toei to adapt it into animation, and checsk out Toyo's work for adapting it into manga; in what we consider non-canon is like this: Toei writers make the draft for a movie, then ask Toriyama for design a character or any other addition, he didn't write the movie/anime, he barely collaborated with designs or minor additions (such Piccolo's weakness).
Also, do math, if the manga would have started in 2016 it wouldn't have 42 chapters, it would have at most 35 (there has been always a chapter per month,,with no exceptions as for the date).

never said you did but wording it as a timeline makes me think such and hesito im debating five people at once and winning so dont expect to be perfect and never said it was non canon just stating its validly is the same if not less and didt you state the manga was before the anime cant say consisent can you

 

[Wokistan]

I'm not really debating this, as I don't have any real investment in dragon Ball. What I'm saying is that if there's some statement that DBS is Canon (which there probably is) or a continuation or whatever, someone should just link it and be done with it. An argument can be resolved far more quickly with what's objective.

 

[Missy0124]

I'm not really debating this, as I don't have any real investment in dragon Ball. What I'm saying is that if there's some statement that DBS is Canon (which there probably is) or a continuation or whatever, someone should just link it and be done with it. An argument can be resolved far more quickly with what's objective.

its kinda obvious none of you do im goning rehost as the same change my mibd about gt if no can or does in 20 minutes and the objective the things that make super canon boost gt as canon alot more besides gt was canon one point anyways i belive both to be to canon to z but not the other way around and the movies were always non canon but the canon in dragon ball argument has always been dumb im just to clarify nothing is really in terms of dragon ball alot of people argee there is not really a canon like yugioh past the fourth season which is zexal for any ygofans and alot other francieses have simlar apparach like marvel more pacifficly comics

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This link does explicitly confirm the upcoming movie to be canon for sure by the creators; I can't find the direct source mentioning the Anime or Manga being canon though, but it does exist for sure and was brought up on another thread a long time ago. Same link also does say it's a follow up to the Dragon Ball Super Anime, so it references that part being canon.

Also Missy, you were never "winning". Being condescending and insulting anyone who disagrees with you regardless of majorities, minorities, staff members or regular members, fans or non fans is the exact opposite of winning. Anyway, I did ask a couple other staff members if they minded if I closed this, and they seem to agree that this thread should be closed. So I will do so.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, Super being written by Tori is well known. I do recall a statement but looking for it is kinda difficult if I do not known where to look for it (also using a tablet, making it more difficult).

@Missy, yes, I did say that the manga came before the anime, where did I say otherwise?