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Dragon Ball CRT: The..........................Dragon Balls?

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Vietthai96

Vietthai96

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I....................honestly lost all creativity in naming my thread. But anyway, this thread is for adding some abilities that related to Dragon Balls and Shenron. Continue from this thread, as there are 5 neutral votes for Law Manipulation, and i did stated i will find more evidences, now it is time for it

First we have Chaos hax which was accepted in this thread. as we know most of the time Chaos is just something oppose Order, or Law as i will quote directly from the page
power over disharmony, confusion, disorder, and destructiveness
Click to expand...
Chaos is opposed to order
Click to expand...

So i argued that having Chaos hax can also mean having Law hax at the same time, since Chaos mean the distortion of Order/Law, which can be attribute to the effect of Law hax, which again i will quote direction fom the law hax page
Basic users of the power may only disturb one or more laws without control over them. Regular and more advanced users may be able to destroy, nullify, modify, and/or create new laws
Click to expand...

In this instance we can see that the accepted chaos hax disturb law, which is one of qualifiable effect for Law hax. In fact the page itself even listed Chaos Manipulation as one possible use for Law Manipulation

Possible Uses​

  • Reality Warping: Users of this ability may be able to control the laws of reality, and high-level users may be able to even negate the current laws and enforce their own upon reality.
  • Chaos Manipulation: The user may be able to alter logical order.
Click to expand...

Is this everything?, of course not, time for more evidences

1. Dragon Ball and Shenron

Anyway, we have manga statement: Dragon Ball is stated to be "cosmic cheat code" that can hurl the cosmic order into chaos

In Dragon Ball Z Anime we have statement parallel to manga, or you could say adapted from it: Dragon Ball can cause confusion to natural order

In Dragon Ball GT we have statement: Dragon Ball can bring disorder to nature

So i think these evidences is enough for Law Manipulation for Shenron, at least Toei and Game version of Shenron as all statement pretty much, textbook words from chaos and law hax page

2. Negative and Positive Energy

In Dragon Ball GT we also have, when people use DB to wish which also increases negative energy, or minus energy within these balls.

In GT Perfect File we have this statement:
Negative energy is generated as a reaction to the DB's wishes. It is a negative energy that is born from the distortion of the laws of nature
Click to expand...
Minus energy is produced as a consequence of making wishes with the Dragon Balls, in opposition to the laws of nature. As negative energy accumulates, calamities and evil phenomena emerge
Click to expand...


pretty much this scan confirmed that DB power can distort law which gave rise to negative energy, this is also backed up by the fact that negative energy was accepted to have chaos hax thus further confirmed that Dragon Ball and thing born from it like Shenron and Negative Energy have both Chaos & Law manipulation

From the same GT Perfect File scan above, we also have section talking about Positive or Plus Energy, which is stated as:
Positive energy is the way nature should be, in other words, the force of justice. Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta has positive energy within his body that can neutralize negative energy
Click to expand...
Plus energy, on the other hand, is a force aligned with nature and embodies justice. In other words, it is the power of virtue. Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, possessing this plus energy within himself, is able to neutralize the minus energy.
Click to expand...

So pretty much the scan stated Positive or Plus Energy is force of natural order which can neutralize Negative or Minus Energy which distort law of nature. Thus anyone who have this Plus energy should have Power Nullification, Purification (Types 1 & 2), Law Manipulation since Plus energy can nullified Minus Energy which is stated to pollute everything in the universe and is the force of nature order, which pretty much mean it can nullify Minus Energy and return the order of the universe back to it natural state
  • Edit: this mean nullifies this Minus energy mean return the distort law back to normal, so anyone or power can nullify this energy and its effect should get Law Manipulation
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000

Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Vietthai96 said:
I....................honestly lost all creativity in naming my thread. But anyway, this thread is for adding some abilities that related to Dragon Balls and Shenron. Continue from this thread, as there are 5 neutral votes for Law Manipulation, and i did stated i will find more evidences, now it is time for it

First we have Chaos hax which was accepted in this thread. as we know most of the time Chaos is just something oppose Order, or Law as i will quote directly from the page



So i argued that having Chaos hax can also mean having Law hax at the same time, since Chaos mean the distortion of Order/Law, which can be attribute to the effect of Law hax, which again i will quote direction fom the law hax page


In this instance we can see that the accepted chaos hax disturb law, which is one of qualifiable effect for Law hax. In fact the page itself even listed Chaos Manipulation as one possible use for Law Manipulation


Is this everything?, of course not, time for more evidences
Click to expand...
Chaos Manipulation is one of the possible uses of Law Manipulation, it can be attributed IF the wielder can alter and manipulate logical order itself. Judging by the CRT you linked, Chaos Manipulation was rather based on the so-called "Minus Energy" which was spread across the Universe and wreaked havoc across all of Earth. It seems just a byproduct of his Reality Warping and uproaring cataclysm upon the Earth and human society itself, rather than manipulating logical order specifically.
Vietthai96 said:
1. Dragon Ball and Shenron

Anyway, we have manga statement: Dragon Ball is stated to be "cosmic cheat code" that can hurl the cosmic order into chaos

In Dragon Ball Z Anime we have statement parallel to manga, or you could say adapted from it: Dragon Ball can cause confusion to natural order

In Dragon Ball GT we have statement: Dragon Ball can bring disorder to nature

So i think these evidences is enough for Law Manipulation for Shenron, at least Toei and Game version of Shenron as all statement pretty much, textbook words from chaos and law hax page
Click to expand...
No arguments for this, looks quite straightforward. Though, those abilities would be tied together and Law Manipulation should be a subset of the Chaos Manipulation.
 
GarrixianXD said:
Chaos Manipulation is one of the possible uses of Law Manipulation, it can be attributed IF the wielder can alter and manipulate logical order itself. Judging by the CRT you linked, Chaos Manipulation was rather based on the so-called "Minus Energy" which was spread across the Universe and wreaked havoc across all of Earth. It seems just a byproduct of his Reality Warping and uproaring cataclysm upon the Earth and human society itself, rather than manipulating logical order specifically.
Click to expand...
I mean yeah, but they are supporting argument to start the CRT and support the scans i posted ^^
 
Vietthai96 said:
Goku GT yes, since he actually purified the 4 star dragon ball, and his energy constitute Gogeta's energy
Click to expand...
Not to mention he tanked Syn Shenron's blast.
I mean pretty sure Goku should have resistance to Chaos and Law hax.

Now, not sure about Vegeta, cuz we know he was the other half of Gogeta.
 
Technically, one can argue that the statements regarding the dragon balls are hyperbole. As in, they cause "confusion to the natural order" and "Bring disorder to nature" because they can do things such as bring the dead back to life, something not natural and against nature, effectively bringing chaos through its wishes that would defy the natural order of how things work.

This isn't not to say it isn't legit, for the non canon versions considering they give rise to negative energy and such. I'm just providing a potential argument to such statements.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Technically, one can argue that the statements regarding the dragon balls are hyperbole. As in, they cause "confusion to the natural order" and "Bring disorder to nature" because they can do things such as bring the dead back to life, something not natural and against nature, effectively bringing chaos through its wishes that would defy the natural order of how things work.

This isn't not to say it isn't legit, for the non canon versions considering they give rise to negative energy and such. I'm just providing a potential argument to such statements.
Click to expand...
Does this mean you are fine with negative and positive energy additions
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Technically, one can argue that the statements regarding the dragon balls are hyperbole. As in, they cause "confusion to the natural order" and "Bring disorder to nature" because they can do things such as bring the dead back to life, something not natural and against nature, effectively bringing chaos through its wishes that would defy the natural order of how things work.

This isn't not to say it isn't legit, for the non canon versions considering they give rise to negative energy and such. I'm just providing a potential argument to such statements.
Click to expand...
You could, but the context is of them using the Dragon Balls in general. It’s not like they would intentionally make wishes that would ruin the order of the universe when they’re trying to save it. Elder Kai is worried about the act in using them in the first place, and points to that action in itself being the catalyst for it.

GT kinda hammers this point out, by Elder Kai telling us that he warned them of this back in the Buu Saga. So he proves that it’s not necessarily the wishes they make, but the fact that they’re using the dragon balls in the first place. Kibito-Shin states that’s why you usually need to wait a few centuries to make a wish again, but Goku and the gang kept wishing over and over which made an abundance of minus energy.

(Mentioning this since I’m aware you’re just bringing out some potential arguments that could be made)

also what’s your stance so far?
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Technically, one can argue that the statements regarding the dragon balls are hyperbole. As in, they cause "confusion to the natural order" and "Bring disorder to nature" because they can do things such as bring the dead back to life, something not natural and against nature, effectively bringing chaos through its wishes that would defy the natural order of how things work.

This isn't not to say it isn't legit, for the non canon versions considering they give rise to negative energy and such. I'm just providing a potential argument to such statements.
Click to expand...
Eh.....as @TheGodOfICE777 have said, also i want to point out that

1. In Fusion Reborn it is stated that Other World has law governing it which soul need to through process to reincarnated into new life, suffer in Hell or go to Heaven, etc..... but Dragon Balls can just ignore this law and resurrect dead people back to life

2. The same Fusion Reborn movie have Janemba warp and distort Other World's Law, Shenron was called to undo all of his effects, sure Shenron couldn't do it against Janemba, but that pointed out that DB is capable of actually warp law in literal sense, in fact it was some what accepted Toei Dragon Ball have Law hax, with Janemba has resistance to it, but Toei Shenron currently have no profile

So what do you think
 
Vietthai96 said:
Eh.....as @TheGodOfICE777 have said, also i want to point out that

1. In Fusion Reborn it is stated that Other World has law governing it which soul need to through process to reincarnated into new life, suffer in Hell or go to Heaven, etc..... but Dragon Balls can just ignore this law and resurrect dead people back to life
Click to expand...
That's the point, it bypassing the law is basic stuff. Resurrection just resurrects them, it doesn't prove they themselves cause the confusion, it's a byproduct of the wish
Vietthai96 said:
2. The same Fusion Reborn movie have Janemba warp and distort Other World's Law, Shenron was called to undo all of his effects, sure Shenron couldn't do it against Janemba, but that pointed out that DB is capable of actually warp law in literal sense, in fact it was some what accepted Toei Dragon Ball have Law hax, with Janemba has resistance to it, but Toei Shenron currently have no profile

So what do you think
Click to expand...
TheGodOfICE777 said:
You could, but the context is of them using the Dragon Balls in general. It’s not like they would intentionally make wishes that would ruin the order of the universe when they’re trying to save it. Elder Kai is worried about the act in using them in the first place, and points to that action in itself being the catalyst for it.

GT kinda hammers this point out, by Elder Kai telling us that he warned them of this back in the Buu Saga. So he proves that it’s not necessarily the wishes they make, but the fact that they’re using the dragon balls in the first place. Kibito-Shin states that’s why you usually need to wait a few centuries to make a wish again, but Goku and the gang kept wishing over and over which made an abundance of minus energy.

(Mentioning this since I’m aware you’re just bringing out some potential arguments that could be made)

also what’s your stance so far?
Click to expand...
Killerdrone123 said:
Does this mean you are fine with negative and positive energy additions
Click to expand...
However this is alright with me, so I'm fine with the additions using this logic.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
That's the point, it bypassing the law is basic stuff. Resurrection just resurrects them, it doesn't prove they themselves cause the confusion, it's a byproduct of the wish
Click to expand...
I mean, what i want to argue is, the law itself force dead souls to go through a certain process in order to be reincarnated, yet Shenron power can resurrect dead soul directly, logically speaking he intefered with the law of Otherworld in order to do so.
LordGriffin1000 said:
However this is alright with me, so I'm fine with the additions using this logic.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much
 
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