Dragon Ball: 23rd Budokai AP Revision

[Kepekley23]

Introductio

Currently, Yamcha, Tien Shinha, Krilli and some others are High 6-C via backwards scaling to Piccolo's Low 6-B island razing attack. However, I feel as if this is wrong and unsupported by the actual feats.

Let's see why.

The Downgrade
Krilli's profile states:

• Large Island level (Was able to fight against Piccolo, who was trying to cripple him)

However, this is false. Piccolo was massively suppressed when he fought Krillin, while the latter was told by Goku to go completely all-out from the start if he wanted to have any chance of winning.

Piccolo: "Frankly, I'm surprised…Not by your Bukujutsu, but by your technique and movement…And your toughness…To apologize for calling you a small fry, I'll show you just a little bit…"
	~ Piccolo to Krillin during their battle​

Piccolo was heavily suppressed, and came in expecting a normal opponent, hence why he was surprised at Krillin's strength. But then he lets out a small fraction of his ability, which allows him to defeat Krillin rather handily.

Let's see what other people have to say about Piccolo, shall we?

Tenshinhan: "There's no helping it…They far surpass any level ordinarily conceivable."
	~ Tien about Kami vs. Piccolo​

Piccolo, while still suppressed and fighting a far weaker opponent, is stated to far surpass any level Tien, who is stronger than Krillin at this point in the story, thought conceivable.

Piccolo: "Kukkukku…You think that you'll be able to manage something by ganging up on me? Don't make me laugh! Even if there were a hundred of the likes of you, you'd still be no match. God included. I'm already in a completely different dimension than you!
	~ Piccolo's reply to Krillin saying they still stood a chance​

"
Piccolo states that not even a hundred Krillin-level people, Kami included, would stand any sort of chance against him, and that he's on an entirely different dimension.

Scaling Piccolo to Krillin in any way is asinine.

Tien Shinha's profile states:

• Large Island level (Capable of facing off against Goku while he was holding back)

Ignoring the self-contradicting nature of the justification, assigning the tier below to Tien is just as unjustifiable by any means.

Tenshinhan: "Son, you are truly incredible. 3 years ago, your strength was all but perfect. I'm amazed that you've managed to go so far above even that. However, there's one thing that you haven't changed that much from 3 years ago. And that's something especially important in battle…speed!"
	~ Tien to Goku​

Tien praises Goku's strength 3 years ago, saying it was nearly perfect and that he was surprised Goku could surpass that level. Which makes no sense whatsoever if he's 100,000+ times stronger than Goku was back then. Note that Goku is massively suppressed here.

Kame-sennin: "No, they're not even. Even though he's been flying around so much, Goku isn't out of breath, not even a little bit. Unbelievable."
	~ Roshi about the fight between Goku and Tie​

Roshi dismisses the notion of Tien being comparable to a massively suppressed Goku who is far, far from anything resembling his true power.

Tenshinhan: "Wh-when the hell did you..?. "Even my eyes couldn't see that..""

Tien is unable to perceive Goku after he increases his speed to a level that is still not anywhere near his maximum.

Kame-sennin: "Th…that's right! Even after getting hit with an attack that powerful, Goku hasn't been left out of breath…! The most frightening thing about Goku now isn't his power or speed…! It's the outrageous toughness he's acquired!"
	~ Roshi about Goku's durability​

Goku no-sells Tien's strongest attack without powering up an inch.

Tenshinhan: "No, it wasn't…Frankly, his strength was on a different level…To think that he's improved this much. What's more, that bastard…it seems that he still hasn't put out anywhere near his true ability. That's right…he didn't even fire a single Kamehameha…It hurts my pride…Just what the hell kind of training has he been doing?..."
	~ Tien about Goku​

Tien admits Goku is on a different dimension than him even while massively suppressing his true power.

We can say absolutely nothing justifies the backward scaling.

How Strong Are They?
As I mentioned above, Tien praises Goku's strength 3 years ago and is surprised about his strength-increase, but has trained to be able to take on people on Goku's previous level somewhat comfortably.

Kame-sennin: "I'm gonna give it a pass. I'm no longer any match for you guys."

Roshi is no longer any sort of match for Krillin, Yamcha or Tien, so they scale considerably above his 7-B state.

Tenshinhan: "I can tell that he's a member of the Demon Clan, but that strength of his isn't ordinary"

Tien implies another member of the Demon Clan like King Piccolo would be a manageable threat to him, but someone like a massively suppressed Piccolo would be a difficult foe. From this we can both infer that (1) he has surpassed KP and (2) that he is, again, not anywhere near FP P0iccolo Jr's level.

So, they should all be "At least City level+" for being somewhat stronger than KP.

As a note, Krillin is wary of Piccolo as soon as he sets his eye on him, with Goku noting that the current Piccolo is considerably stronger even while massively suppressed. He warns Krillin that he'd need to do his absolute best if he wanted to win, which implies someone like Krillin would be just barely able to defeat someone above KP's league.

 

[Kaltias]

I agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with this

 

[Dark649]

I also agree, its better this way.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree, always thought the backwards scaling was weird.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

I also agree.

 

[AKM sama]

Since the human Z fighters scale above King Piccolo, I suggest an "At least 7-B, likely 7-A" rating. Since KP's feat was already 97 megatons, which is just 3 megatons short of reaching 7-A. Goku was overall stronger than King Piccolo during that fight. And Tien, in the 23rd TB, was able to best Goku's speed from 3 years ago.

 

[Dark649]

He only did very slighty, which i don't think is enough for the likely 7-A.

 

[AKM sama]

As for Kami and Popo, they both were much stronger than 7-B+ and never showed their true potential. But since the human Z fighters went to train under them in the saiyan saga, we can assume that Kami and Popo were stronger than all of them, when they were in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

 

[AKM sama]

He only did very slighty, which i don't think is enough for the likely 7-A.

The gap between KP's feat and 7-A is also very low. And Tien, in the 23rd TB, was able to contest with Goku, who he says, is even stronger than 3 years before. (Although Goku was suppressed but he was still stronger than what he was 3 years before)

 

[Dark649]

Ok, i think it should be this way:

Chiaotzu: At least 7-B. [Fought Mecha Tao, but was defeated. Is the weakest of the group]

Mecha Tao: At least 7-B+.

Yamcha: At least 7-B+, likely 7-A.

Krillin, Yajirobe and Tien: Likely 7-A. [Tien easily defeated Tao]

Mr. Popo: 7-A. [Trained the Z-Fighterz and should be superior to Tien]

Kami: High 6-C [He mentioned he would have put a better fight against casual Piccolo if he didn't borrowed a weak body.

 

[Kepekley23]

Yamcha's Sokidan is likely 7-A, methinks.

 

[Dark649]

Tien looked a Yamcha when charging ki and the others were surprised when he hit Shen, but it was vain as he was oneshotted an instant after.

 

[Kepekley23]

Shen praised Yamcha's ace in the hole

 

[Dark649]

Yes, he also said that if he trained he would have reached him. I think Yamcha had the potential to defeat Tao with it, so likely 7-A is ok to me.

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with those ratings as well. They also fit well with the speed scaling too.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The ratings Dark mentioned looks good.

 

[Golden_Void]

Looks fine.

 

[Hizack123]

I also agree.

 

[Dark649]

Added them, i will close this.