Downgrading of characters with immeasurable speed?

[Antvasima]

Hello.

Given that we had a previous discussion regarding the standards for immeasurable speed, that resulted in that it is currently defined as "Characters that transcend linear time", we likely need to revise the speeds of several character profiles.

I would greatly appreciate if somebody could help out by making a list of the current profiles that use the rating, so we can start to decide which characters that qualify, and which that do not. Thank you.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/692614

 

[Lina_Shields]

Just to clarify, this change would mostly affect characters from Tier 2 [some from Tier 1], as most of the characters that have Immeasurable speed are located there.

As for the characters that need to be changed, I don't think too many characters in Tier 2/Tier 1 need to have their speeds changed, tbh.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The original requirement for Immeasurable Speed was "Being beyond time". So the definition changing to "beyond linear time" is mostly a semantics difference. I can't recall any Immeasurable with any reason.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No. You need to transcend linear time. I.e, the speed = distance / time equation doesn't apply to you.

Any Tier 2 cosmic can do it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, just because, for example, a certain character has 4 spatial dimensions, does not automatically mean that it transcends linear time. This was not merely a semantics difference, but an important change of policy.

 

[Antvasima]

For the sake of reliability, we should preferably get a list of all such characters in any case, and evaluate which ones that should lose the rating.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, just because, for example, a certain character has 4 spatial dimensions, does not automatically mean that it transcends linear time. This was not merely a semantics difference, but an important change of policy.

I didn't say that. I said that any sufficiently powerful Tier 2 cosmic could realistically show an Immeasurable Feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Can: Yes, of course. Does automatically qualify: No.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree.

 

[Promestein]

I don't believe any 4-dimensional characters were made Immeasurable just for being 4-dimensional.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That poses a question of mine here: If a character is not shown to be immeasurable in speed even as a Tier 2, does that mean they get downgraded to MFTL+ and/or Infinite then?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that depends on the characters. If we have nothing to scale by, they should probably get an unknown rating.

However, just as an example, given that the 4-Dimensional New Gods of DC comics are much larger than universes, they should automatically get MFTL+ ratings.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Welp, there goes the possible speed boost for Senshinkan's........it's complicated and a SECRET~

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Anyways, i can't really think up of who exactly needs to be changed given our recent changes of Immeasurable so....

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if somebody would search and make a list of characters with immeasurable speed, that would be very useful.

 

[LordXcano]

I can do that on Friday

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"given that the 4-Dimensional New Gods of DC comics are much larger than universes, they should automatically get MFTL+ ratings."

But they get Immeasurable for being outside of time across all universes.

 

[Antvasima]

@LordXcano Okay. Thanks.

@Matthew They do not transcend linear time, as far as I am aware. They simply spatially exist in several universes simultaneously.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Higher Dimensional beings with infinite emanations across the multiverse completely immune to Multiversal Cosmic Retcons, explictly stated to exist outside space-time.

 

[Antvasima]

Existing outside of universes does not automatically mean transcending linear time.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, Highfather's and Darkseid's origins and appearances were definitely changed after the Flashpoint.

(Hopefully they should be restored back to normal now after recent Superman events though.)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They weren't changed. Multiversity showed that there are still classic-looking New Gods in the 4th World, and they refer to the Earth Prime versions of themselves as just emanations. Darkseid Wars also showed that Metron wasn't affected by any Multiversal Crisis and is still the same as ever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

New Genesis and Apokolips are realms outside the bounds of time and space that restrict us. This has been a consistent thing since Pre-Crisis . This is reflected through the New Gods' nature.

Single timelines are nothing to them, their selves extend through infinite emanations in all universes. They are immune to the effects of timeline rewriting, and even Multiversal rewriting.

 

[Antvasima]

There are different presentations of that within DC stories, but if true, it may mean that they are non-linear beings, yes.

It may be best to ask DarkLK to make certain.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Quintessence (Which has Trueform Highfather in it) are explictly stated to exist outside the walls of normal space and time and to be timeless .

 

[Promestein]

I don't know why we have to bother DarkLK with this when it's pretty self-evident

 

[Antvasima]

Well, okay then. Just make sure to provide proper explanations within the profiles.

That said, the Quintessence were not stated to be timeless, just to have entered an area outside of normal timespace, which is definitely not the same as sharing its nature.