Downgrading Killer Peter once again and debunking some calcs

[RetroBtw773yam]

I don't get what you are trying to say?

Both will use a timeframe of 0.1s

Yuna debatably have 0.08s or even D-rank brothers could use that timeframe but we are using 0.1s as somewhat of a safe end.
Doesn't really change the calculation regardless of which observer we are using.

What are you trying to say? Going by your words then are you perhaps trying to invalidate the supersonic calc?

No I'm not trying t invalidate the supersonic feat I think were talking pat each other my disagreement has been with the CRT reasoning, not nesessarily the existence of the supersonic result. If the calc intentionally uses 0.1 as a conservative lower bund and that states as a lowball rather the characters actual perception speed then I don't have an issue with that approach.

But what I was objecting to was the claim that Yuna's statement cannot be used because following movement and perceiving movement are different things, yeah they are different but that alone doesn't invalidate the calc the calc doesn't require Yuna to be completely perception blitzed it only requires that the sequence exceeed her ability to contonuously resolve and follow each movement which is exactly what the scene conveys. If the Doko brothers are used instead as the observer while still applying a deliberatleu conservative 0.1 timeframe then that's actually an even safer interpretation then relying only on Yuna.

 

[MVMRainAngel]

1. The Panels doesn't look like it establishes that you said Thaddeus moved to the side first and punch afterwards? That's not what's being shown, what's actually being shown is Kageo throwing a punch and Thaddeus shifting his positioning as he counters it isn't really showing us that the sidestep finished completely, then an entirely separate action just started. Certain counterattack often occur with evasive movement and some fighters can slip a punch while launching a counter they can both be part of the same exchange.

You have to prove that the sidestep and counter are temporarily separate actions youngest asserting that they are isn't enough proof. And if the scene is specifically showing Thaddeus countering Kageo strike then invoking the CLOSE RANGE punch rule requires proving the feat is impossible to interpret as a genuine reaction feat, just because Kagel was able to Thaddeus in the beginning doesn't prove that. Kageo blocked, dodged, and hit Thaddeus OK that's cool but logic doesn't follow characters can relative without being equal and throughout the fight Kageo literally admitted that Thaddeus was way to fast and couldn't even touch Thaddeus. So using Kageo earlier performance against Thaddeus as proof that every exchange must be invalid is not justified.

The timeframe used in this calculation was the distance between Kageo's fists and Thaddeus's eyes divided by Kageo's punching speed. However, in the following panel, Thaddeus slight moved back, meaning that the timeframe had ended because Kageo's arms had traveled farther than the original distance between his fists and Thaddeus's eyes.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Bump

 

[RetroBtw773yam]

The timeframe used in this calculation was the distance between Kageo's fists and Thaddeus's eyes divided by Kageo's punching speed. However, in the following panel, Thaddeus slight moved back, meaning that the timeframe had ended because Kageo's arms had traveled farther than the original distance between his fists and Thaddeus's eyes.

The timeframe ending simply because Kageo fist traveled farther is the next panel is an assumption manga panels don't always represent completely seperate timeframes sometimes they often depict successive moments of the same exchange from different angles. The calc uses the initial distince between Kageo's fist and Thaddeus because that's the moment the counter begins, but the next panel shows the continuation of that interaction it isn't really proof that an entirely new reaction had started. You would have to first demonstrate that Thaddeus completed his evasive movement and that the initiated completely seperate counterattack afterward the art work really doesn't establish that sequence. So saying the timeframe ended isn't something demonstrated by the panel it's a interpretation since both interpretations are plausible you can't dismiss the calc on that basis

 

[Aksh_sky]

The timeframe ending simply because Kageo fist traveled farther is the next panel is an assumption manga panels don't always represent completely seperate timeframes sometimes they often depict successive moments of the same exchange from different angles. The calc uses the initial distince between Kageo's fist and Thaddeus because that's the moment the counter begins, but the next panel shows the continuation of that interaction it isn't really proof that an entirely new reaction had started. You would have to first demonstrate that Thaddeus completed his evasive movement and that the initiated completely seperate counterattack afterward the art work really doesn't establish that sequence. So saying the timeframe ended isn't something demonstrated by the panel it's a interpretation since both interpretations are plausible you can't dismiss the calc on that basis

If u dk how calculations work then I'll request you to leave making comments about calcs, something you seemingly aren't knowledgeable about and instead leave it for the CGMs. Cuz what u said is literally just baseless yapping, like i don't want to act rude or something but ur genuinely saying ANYTHING atp.

 

[RetroBtw773yam]

If u dk how calculations work then I'll request you to leave making comments about calcs, something you seemingly aren't knowledgeable of and instead leave it for CGMs.

If I misunderstand a calculation then explain where my reasoning is incorrect I'm not claiming to be a calculation expert that precisely why I'm asking questions and discussing the methodology

 

[Aksh_sky]

If I misunderstand a calculation then explain where my reasoning is incorrect I'm not claiming to be a calculation expert that precisely why I'm asking questions and discussing the methodology

It's pretty simple, I've already explained it in the OP but I'll retstate again about the Kageo calc.

So basically the calc assumes that Kageo's fist was a certain distance away from Thaddeus's face and he calced Thaddeus landing all attacks before his punch covered that certain distance so according to the calcer, that means that Thaddeus landed all those attacks before the timframe of his punch covering that distance, but then we clearly see that his punch clearly covered wayy more distance that was calced and was assumed that he landed those attacks before his punch covered those distance, but since it covered wayy more distance then that means the timeframe was already over way before Thaddeus punched Kageo a certain amount of time, thus this calc won't work. I hope u understand now.

 

[RetroBtw773yam]

It's pretty simple, I've already explained it in the OP but I'll retstate again about the Kageo calc.

So basically the calc assumes that Kageo's fist was a certain distance away from Thaddeus's face and he calced Thaddeus landing all attacks before his punch covered that certain distance so according to the calcer, that means that Thaddeus landed all those attacks before the timframe of his punch covering that distance, but then we clearly see that his punch clearly covered wayy more distance that was calced and was assumed that he landed those attacks before his punch covered those distance, but since it covered wayy more distance then that means the timeframe was already over way before Thaddeus punched Kageo a certain amount of time, thus this calc won't work. I hope u understand now.

I understand your point now, but I still don't think it necessarily invalidates the calc your argument kinda assumes that because Kageo punch travels father in the following panel the original reaction timeframe must have completely ended before Thaddeus began his counter, but I don't see that being demonstroted by the art work cause the next panel showing Kageo's arm father extended only tells us that the exchange continued it doesn't automatically prove that Thaddeus finished reacting waiting for the original timeframe to end and started a completely seperate attack sequence. The calc is based on the initial movement when Kageo's punch enters Thaddeus's striking range and the following panel can just as reasonbly be interpreted as the continuation of that same exact exchange.

Just to clarify I feel like it's better to establish three things first that the reaction window ended, Thaddeus had completed all of his movements after the window ended and that his counterattack only began after the punch had already traveled beyond the calculated distance. I agree your interpretation is possible but that isn't enough to invalidate the calc, at most you've shown the exact reconstruction can be debated but you haven't demonstrated that the original reconstruction is possible

 

[Aksh_sky]

I understand your point now, but I still don't think it necessarily invalidates the calc

It does invalidates the calc and I've already explained it why and i don't want to attend your random nonsense so I'd rather not reply and wait for CGM to check.

your argument kinda assumes that because Kageo punch travels father in the following panel the original reaction timeframe must have completely ended before

I was about to not reply but just to teach you calc 101 then imma tell u that the calc has absolutely nothing to do with reaction time and neither does my arguements assumes anything, it's shown in the panel nly. Anyways that'll be it.

 

[MVMRainAngel]

If I misunderstand a calculation then explain where my reasoning is incorrect I'm not claiming to be a calculation expert that precisely why I'm asking questions and discussing the methodology

The distance between Kageo's fist and Thaddeus' eye must not change or the timeframe will be wrong. Thaddeus's step back and use is the distance that Thaddeus counterattacks while the timeframe has actually ended. The calculation should use the minimum distance that Thaddeus must move to dodge the punch while the distance between Kageo's fist and Thaddeus' eye remains the same because the timeframe is not yet finished and usable. Maybe my explanation is quite confusing, but I have a few calculations for you to easily visualize. The calculation is only correct when the character does not leave the position and the timeframe has not actually ended like this calculation or this calculation. These calculations are wrong when the character has left the intial position and the distance used to make the timeframe is like this calculation or this calculation.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Bump

 

[WindyAttack]

Bump

 

[Aksh_sky]

Bump