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Downgrade for Verses With Stabilization / Sustenance Feats

Bernkastelll said:
I will say again lmfao ''Ik, just said that I disagree because doesnt makes sense''
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It does make sense, there was already a long CRT to accept it, most staff agreed. Now move on and stop derailing this thread with unimportant complains that don't bring anything productive.
 
Just checked said original thread and I don’t see you saying anything regarding Warren’s issue with said feat which apparently took a week?

Is that not against this?
For example, if a character sustains the existence of a universe that would not be instantly or immediately destroyed when no longer supported, the power of their sustainability would not be comparable to destructive output that completely and immediately destroys a universe, and would not be sufficient enough to be given a 3-A or Low 2-C rating.
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It was when Warren brought Michael up in his comment to disagree with the standards before I countered them. The only seemingly new thing that wasn’t brought up was Michael needing a week or so to finish his feat. And that doesn’t change his feat,

Even if him taking a week is the case, Michael in this case here is sustaining a 1-A structure. Let’s have a reminder of what 1-A is.


Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as entirely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even compared to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

Sustaining a cosmology with infinite-dimensional realms separated infinitely kinda makes timeframes irrelevant and for obvious reasons. Same for anything that’s pretty much 2-A or more.

Now, if it would’ve take him an infinite amount of time to do the feat, your point would have more to stand on since that would be him taking forever to sustain the entire cosmology. But that doesn’t appear to be the case.
 
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Okay. So 2-A and above realms don’t need said timeframe requirement of instant/immediate? This should probably be mentioned on said page but alright.

Wouldn’t this apply to all Low 2-C sized realms due to those being infinite as well instead of 2-A?
 
Low 2-C realms are not infinite in size, and unless a verse specified that the character would need an infinite or endless amount of time to do whatever feat is proposed for them on that scale, then yes 2-A verses and up wouldn’t be effected by the need for the feat to be done reasonably fast.

And I bring the latter up because we do have such a case with some characters. That’s why Altair from Re:Creator isn’t 2-A despite her destroying infinite worlds because of her taking infinite time to do the feat.
 
shouldn't it start at 2-C for verses to not be affected?

The jump from Low 2-C to 2-C is apparently greater than infinity. If a character had a legit Infinity multiplier and was Low 2-C they wouldn't be 2-C or higher. They would still be Low 2-C just infinitely above baseline. Same thing if they had like an (2 x Infinity) Multiplier. They would just be 2 infinities above Baseline Low 2-C. This is just giving examples showing the jump from Tier low 2-C to 2-C is massive.
 
I was under the impression Low 2-C was like a single infinite universe but I guess I was wrong?
Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either
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If the stabilization action is considered valid unless there is an infinite time for an infinite structure, why does not the soul king count, the garganta will disappear with the death of the soul king and this will not be an infinite time?
 
Ionliosite said:
What? No, the distance between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifable, not "greater than infinity". I honestly don't know where people get these misconceptions, it's literally explained on the Tiering System page.
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Past threads in Q&A and CRT section. Where the questions asked if "an infinite multiplier from Low 2-C gets X-higher Tier"

The answers seem to imply you need a greater infinity because even infinity is rejected to getting a higher tier thus character is stuck at Low 2-C just infinity above baseline. Due to the distance being unquantifiable*
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Past threads in Q&A and CRT section. Where the questions asked if "an infinite multiplier from Low 2-C gets X-higher Tier"

The answers seem to imply you need a greater infinity because even infinity is rejected to getting a higher tier thus character is stuck at Low 2-C just infinity above baseline. Due to the distance being unquantifiable*
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The reason being "infinitely above baseline Low 2-C" (whatever that means) isn't 2-C is simply because the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is unknown. It could be a 2x difference, it could be 1 trillion times difference, it could be infinite, we don't know how much it is - that's why multipliers aren't accepted to jump between Tier 2, we don't know how big the gap between them is, and thus we can't use any multiplier to bridge them since we don't how much would be needed.
 
Ionliosite said:
The reason being "infinitely above baseline Low 2-C" (whatever that means) isn't 2-C is simply because the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is unknown. It could be a 2x difference, it could be 1 trillion times difference, it could be infinite, we don't know how much it is - that's why multipliers aren't accepted to jump between Tier 2, we don't know how big the gap between them is, and thus we can't use any multiplier to bridge them since we don't how much would be needed.
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The way I see it if you apply multipliers to a character who is Low2C baseline kind(93 billion years wide kind)....say "X" then he will become X times low2C...so its kinda like increasing the size of low2C sructure....so say if X=10....then after applying 10 times multiplier the Character becomes strong equavivalent to a space-time which is "Singular 930 billion LY wide universe"....so applying the X=infinite as multiplier would make you strong and equavivalent to a " Singular Infinite Sized space-time " and considering the fact that infinite has various layers and go from countable infinity to uncountable infinity the it seems logical that the gap between each 4D construct is "qualitatively superior to ANY kind of infinite".....
So TheUnshakableOne makes sense here......

Same equivalency of logic can be used for differences in various layers of infinite speed upto immeasurable speed......
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
The way I see it if you apply multipliers to a character who is Low2C baseline kind(93 billion years wide kind)....say "X" then he will become X times low2C...so its kinda like increasing the size of low2C sructure....so say if X=10....then after applying 10 times multiplier the Character becomes strong equavivalent to a space-time which is "Singular 930 billion LY wide universe"....so applying the X=infinite as multiplier would make you strong and equavivalent to a " Singular Infinite Sized space-time " and considering the fact that infinite has various layers and go from countable infinity to uncountable infinity the it seems logical that the gap between each 4D construct is "qualitatively superior to ANY kind of infinite".....
So TheUnshakableOne makes sense here......

Same equivalency of logic can be used for differences in various layers of infinite speed upto immeasurable speed......
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That's not what happens at all and honestly, these misconceptions are getting very tiring. Ionlionsite is right in his explanation. Whether the universe's spatial dimensions are infinite or only universal in length, both are baseline.
 
Planck69 said:
That's not what happens at all and honestly, these misconceptions are getting very tiring. Ionlionsite is right in his explanation. Whether the universe's spatial dimensions are infinite or only universal in length, both are baseline.
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Then pray tell what would qualify for above baseline ......
That seems very very counterintuitive compared to my logic....can you link me a CRT or a discussion thread where this was discussed so I can learn the reasoning for myself??
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Then pray tell what would qualify for above baseline ......
That seems very very counterintuitive compared to my logic....can you link me a CRT or a discussion thread where this was discussed so I can learn the reasoning for myself??
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There's no feat that qualifies for above baseline. It's just scaling that gets you there.

Read the Tiering System on how Low 2-C can be achieved.
 
None of those feats form the meat and bones of the GoW tiering though. In any case, Poseidon and Helios' feats probably don't qualify as stabilization feats so they can be removed from their profiles if they're there.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
There's the World Pillar too which Atlas and Persephone wanted to destroy....but I think that qualifies even with new standards...
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Yeah Persephone’s was less sustaining and more her death explosion destroying an already damaged pillar

It will still apply to Helios for AP since his power was what damaged the Pillar so badly
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm no expert on the series, but I recall experts saying Dark Souls is actually the main verse where stabilization feats are legit. There's a lot more lore that appears to be in our faces and every in universe thing is 100% linear PL in that game. But I may need Dark Souls experts to testify.
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I'd suggest to call in Bambu for this one. He's our main resident Soulsborne-Sekiro expert to go to.
 
Ionliosite said:
The reason being "infinitely above baseline Low 2-C" (whatever that means) isn't 2-C is simply because the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is unknown. It could be a 2x difference, it could be 1 trillion times difference, it could be infinite, we don't know how much it is - that's why multipliers aren't accepted to jump between Tier 2, we don't know how big the gap between them is, and thus we can't use any multiplier to bridge them since we don't how much would be needed.
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I remember the reasoning being "99% of the times 'infinitely above' is pure hyperbole"
 
I've gone over why 4-C Dark Souls works in a blog I made.

Long story short: More souls = more AP and you need a certain level of power to keep the sun spinning without torching yourself. Anyone who can feed their soul to the First Flame without dying should have the same level of power to keep the sun in existence.
 
GoW have more reasons to look over than just stability feats; like the several dozen twitter posts strongly contradicted by the in game showings.

And yes, Ovens did a fantastic job on the blog. Which I should comment on tbh.
 
Agreed but that should be it's own thread

I'll probably be around till April so I can help if you like (Shoot us a message on Discord or something)
 
Okay, I was summoned due to Soulsborne stuff, I can see that, so I'll go through the rules and see if I understand.

Rule 1 is fairly simple, Souls characters sustain the sun with their soul. Without the soul, sun goes out, cool.

Rule 2, bit hazy here. The issue is that its both literal life force and physical AP, if that makes sense. Souls amplify one's physical capabilities, and also can be used as fuel for the sun.

Rule 3 is fairly easy, we see the sun go out multiple times during the Ages of Dark when there's no souls to sustain the light. Untended Graves is a perfect example in that the sun is no longer in the sky. I don't know about whether or not it would instantly go out without it since we're never really at that time in-game; every game takes place as the last embers are dying down, which eventually gets a personification in the form of the Soul of Cinder. In my opinion this is probably fine, but I'm not an expert here, I guess.

Rule 4, as far as I can tell, this is handled by the above mention of souls = AP = sun fuel.
 
Would hyper dimension Neptunia be affected at all? (Just curious since there doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for the verse now a days.)
Kurome made 2 universes out of her dreams and maintains there existance. (Them disappearing when she dies and reappearing when they revive.)

note: I Know there is still a different low 2-C feat. But it seems like Kurome is the main reasoning for the straight up 2-C rating.
 
Jesterofgames said:
Would hyper dimension Neptunia be affected at all? (Just curious since there doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for the verse now a days.)
Kurome made 2 universes out of her dreams and maintains there existance. (Them disappearing when she dies and reappearing when they revive.)

note: I Know there is still a different low 2-C feat. But it seems like Kurome is the main reasoning for the straight up 2-C rating.
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I mean if she made them in the first place, isn’t that a straight up creation feat? The sustenance being invalid wouldn’t neccessarily downgrade her.
 
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