Doomguy vs Kingprotea | 0-0-0

[Vietthai96]

but you can resist the ability by using hax

The what??, resist what ability using what hax??. What i meant in my comment is that if you don't resist something, you don't resist it, simple. If you don't resist Resistance Negation, then you don't resist Resistance Negation, just because Resistance Negation is Power Null that aim at resistance and it is under Power Null category doesn't mean you resist it via simply resist Power Null, that is a leap in logic, the site the standard do not allow such a leap in logic as it is under NLF category, simple, unless someone decide to change standard

 

[Robo432343]

The what??, resist what ability using what hax??. What i meant in my comment is that if you don't resistance something, you don't resist it, simple. If you don't resist Resistance Negation, then you don't resist Resistance Negation, just because Resistance Negation is Power Null that aim at resistance and it is under Power Null category doesn't mean you resist it via simpmy resist Power Null, that is a leap in logic, the site the standard do not alloe such a leap in logic, simple, unless someone decide to change standard

no like
for example you can resist transmutation vie shapeshifting

 

[ShionAH]

Resistance Negation is literally a sub power of Powernull, it is like saying that resisting Time Manipulation wouldnt allow you to resist Time Stop.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Resistance Negation is literally a sub power of Powernull, it is like saying that resisting Time Manipulation wouldnt allow you to resist Time Stop.

...it wouldn't. Time Stop is basically a more advanced Time Slow.

 

[Vietthai96]

no like
for example you can resist transmutation vie shapeshifting

Where did you get this logic??

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Resistance Negation is literally a sub power of Powernull, it is like saying that resisting Time Manipulation wouldnt allow you to resist Time Stop.

This depends entirely on what type of manipulation it is. If you resisted MOH's acceleration, that doesn't mean you resist The World.

 

[ShionAH]

...it wouldn't. Time Stop is basically a more advanced Time Slow.

?? Time Manipulation contains time Stop within it. Where did Time slow come from?

 

[Livinmeme]

Doomguy is getting even more upgrades

Where did you get this logic??

To be fair, it depends on the level of shapeshifting, and if the transmutation makes it so you still have your concsiousness, but yeah, you shapeshift like you were before you were transmuted

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Another example is reconstruction vs deconstruction (a bit direct I know)

 

[DaReaperMan]

?? Time Manipulation contains time Stop within it. Where did Time slow come from?

Shion. Does Sans resist Soul BFR just because he resists Soul damage?

 

[ShionAH]

Shion. Does Sans resist Soul BFR just because he resists Soul damage?

Thats a completely different thing, if you resists Space Manip do you not resist BFR? If you resists Transmutation do you not resist Petrification? You do!

 

[Vietthai96]

Resistance Negation is literally a sub power of Powernull, it is like saying that resisting Time Manipulation wouldnt allow you to resist Time Stop.

In fact, resist time manipulation doesn't mean you resist all kinds of time hax application, resist time stop do not allpw you to resist time reversal or time acceleration, in fact this applies to all kind of hax

To be fair, it depends on the level of shapeshifting, and if the transmutation makes it so you still have your concsiousness, but yeah, you shapeshift like you were before you were transmuted

If you able to shapeshift out of transmutation, then you already have limited resistance to transmutation in the first place or transmutation have weakness

 

[ShionAH]

In fact, resist time manipulation doesn't mean you resist all kinds of time hax application, resist time stop do not allpw you to resist time reversal or time acceleration, in fact this applies to all kind of hax

If you resist Time Manipulation you DO resists other Time abilities, like for example a being who transcends time and has time resistance would very well resist time stop. In this case Doom Guys powers entirely resist being taken away and they are also conceptual, which would easily allow him to resists Resistance Negation WHICH LITERALLY LINKS TO POWERNULL

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thats a completely different thing,

so is Resistance Negation and generic Power Null.

if you resists Space Manip do you not resist BFR? If you resists Transmutation do you not resist Petrification? You do!

No, if you resist Spatial Manipulation you definitely don't resist BFR.

And considering if I had my way, Petrification would just be a part of Transmutation due to literally just changing the opponent's body to some other material which is basic bitch Transmutation...

If you resist Time Manipulation you DO resists other Time abilities, like for example a being who transcends time and has time resistance would very well resist time stop. In this case Doom Guys powers entirely resist being taken away and they are also conceptual, which would easily allow him to resists Resistance Negation WHICH LITERALLY LINKS TO POWERNULL

If you transcend time, that is literally different, if you just resist Time Manipulation, you'd need feats of resisting more esoteric bits of it

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

If you able to shapeshift out of transmutation, then you already have limited resistance to transmutation in the first place or transmutation have weakness

I would say that it ultimately also depends on said shapeshifting and it's own limitations. Transmutation inherently would have the weakness of anyone who can undo it can just CTRL+Z. Even among the strongest transmutation can still be undone if you have the hax to counter it, you would need a layer or specific feats of negating said undoing for it to stop it.

 

[Vietthai96]

I can't believe we have this discussion and yet here we are, despite the fact that this shit was debated to death multiple times before

 

[ShionAH]

so is Resistance Negation and generic Power Null.

Links the same, so you technically cannot say they are different. Baseless argument

No, if you resist Spatial Manipulation you definitely don't resist BFR.

You definitely resist spatial BFR.

If you transcend time, that is literally different, if you just resist Time Manipulation, you'd need feats of resisting more esoteric bits of it

If you are completely resistant to time like being unbound by it you would also resist the others. Literally there is only really few ways to resist time manip without resisting other time haxes.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Links the same, so you technically cannot say they are different. Baseless argument

Power Nullification

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to nullify the powers and abilities of others, preventing or disabling their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The two are VERY different.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Links the same, so you technically cannot say they are different. Baseless argument

Ah I see, so if I pull a character who resists 6-D CM3, they'd resist all forms of DOOM CM! Good to know!

You definitely resist spatial BFR.

Spatial cutting wouldn't grant the Resistance, but other things that are actually general Spatial Manipulation would

If you are completely resistant to time like being unbound by it you would also resist the others. Literally there is only really few ways to resist time manip without resisting other time haxes.

Like only being proven to resist a single form of Time Manipulation

 

[TyphonEX]

No one wanking, that is how the standard work, if you don't have resistance to something, you don't have resistance to it, or else a character resistance to power null can just make NLF claim that it can resist all kinds of power null despite never show in the verse

I'm pretty sure layered resistance works against resistance negation.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm pretty sure layered resistance works against resistance negation.

I'd believe so, but I don't know the specifics on that one

 

[TyphonEX]

The what??, resist what ability using what hax??. What i meant in my comment is that if you don't resist something, you don't resist it, simple. If you don't resist Resistance Negation, then you don't resist Resistance Negation, just because Resistance Negation is Power Null that aim at resistance and it is under Power Null category doesn't mean you resist it via simply resist Power Null, that is a leap in logic, the site the standard do not allow such a leap in logic as it is under NLF category, simple, unless someone decide to change standard

BB honestly shouldn't even have resistance negation in the first place, there's no evidence for it on her page.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

BB honestly shouldn't even have resistance negation in the first place, there's no evidence for it on her page.

Nasuverse profile disease

 

[TyphonEX]

In fact, resist time manipulation doesn't mean you resist all kinds of time hax application, resist time stop do not allpw you to resist time reversal or time acceleration, in fact this applies to all kind of hax

If you able to shapeshift out of transmutation, then you already have limited resistance to transmutation in the first place or transmutation have weakness

How tf does any of that apply if you have immeasurable speed? Immeasurable speed literally lets you travel in zero time so none of that has any impact.

Doomguy doesn't shapeshift out of transmutation, he just doesn't get transmutated at all. Idk if that's on his profile yet though I'll have to check.

 

[ShionAH]

Ah I see, so if I pull a character who resists 6-D CM3, they'd resist all forms of DOOM CM! Good to know!

Hey! Does Powernull have types! NO? Oh yeah It doesnt.

Spatial cutting wouldn't grant the Resistance, but other things that are actually general Spatial Manipulation would

Yes, and thats the case gere

Like only being proven to resist a single form of Time Manipulation

Which would be resistance to that. Not Resistance to Time Manipulation, resisting Time Stop is resistance to Time Stop not time manipulation.

What resistances can they even negate

 

[TyphonEX]

Honestly the only thing that Gilgamesh would possibly have against Doomguy is Ten Crowns, which, since we treat it as being the same as BB Ten Crowns, shouldn't work (at EX level) outside the Moon Cell either.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hey! Does Powernull have types! NO? Oh yeah It doesnt.

But by YOUR arguments anything on the page can be resisted just by it linking to the same page!

Which would be resistance to that. Not Resistance to Time Manipulation, resisting Time Stop is resistance to Time Stop not time manipulation.

Then make a staff thread to seperate every form of Time Manipulation you can think of onto seperate pages. You would be eaten alive for even suggesting such a thing. Time Slow is basically a weaker Time Stop. Time Cutting would only be itself, Time Reversal would be seperate too--

Let's even take Abstract Existence!
"Beware that the abstract nature of different characters can stem from different sources (rumors, concepts, possibilities,...), as such, being able to affect a subtype of a category does not mean a character can affect all types of abstraction."

Oof, it seems our Powers function based of feats, not assumptions!

 

[TyphonEX]

alright ill change it to that character

Changing the character is completely unnecessary. Just change the arena to outside of the Moon Cell so BB doesn't have Ten Crowns. Unless that's a stomp in the Doomguy's favor?

 

[Vietthai96]

How tf does any of that apply if you have immeasurable speed? Immeasurable speed literally lets you travel in zero time so none of that has any impact.

The hell, speed is speed, hax is hax, why you bring speed in this discussion???, i talk about hax and resistance in general, not Doomguy specifically, also immeasurable speed do not hive resistance to time, it is simply that normal time hax can't affect immeasurable speed due to their limitation and immeasurable speed's nature

Doomguy doesn't shapeshift out of transmutation, he just doesn't get transmutated at all. Idk if that's on his profile yet though I'll have to check.

Again i'm not talking about Doomguy, someone mentioned that you can shapeshift out of transmutation so i just argued with him

Which would be resistance to that. Not Resistance to Time Manipulation, resisting Time Stop is resistance to Time Stop not time manipulation.

The time manipulation page disagree with you, also how can you stop time if you can't manipulating it, lmao

Hey! Does Powernull have types! NO? Oh yeah It doesnt.

Wrong comparison, Conceptual separate into types because different in nature of concept, power null isn't concept, there is no independent or dependent power null

BB honestly shouldn't even have resistance negation in the first place, there's no evidence for it on her page.

It is not the current problem, we dicussing what is one the profile, if we should not have it, then it should be removed via CRT, vs match thread isn't the place to discuss what character should have and should not have

 

[Robo432343]

bro why are we even talking about bb still
this is doomguy vs protea

 

[DaReaperMan]

bro why are we even talking about bb still
this is doomguy vs protea

Because this match is dumb lol

 

[TyphonEX]

normal time hax can't affect immeasurable speed due to their limitation and immeasurable speed's nature

This includes timestop lmao. That's because timestop simply reduces time to zero, which immeasurable characters obviously can move in. Are you telling me that immeasurable characters actually can't move in zero time?

But yeah fine I'll try making a CRT for BB and Gil

 

[ShionAH]

But by YOUR arguments anything on the page can be resisted just by it linking to the same page!

If you genuinly cannot comperehend my point, I believe there is no point explaining to you why you are so wrong. Nor did you or anyone else prove it can negate conceptual resistances.

This matchup was changed three times because Doom Guy was too much for Fate (Only way they win is with unfair advantages), at this point I dont even want to debate here since like 3 different characters and debates is too much for a single thread. So Unwatching.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If you genuinly cannot comperehend my point, I believe there is no point explaining to you why you are so wrong. Nor did you or anyone else prove it can negate conceptual resistances.

I didn't even give a flying **** about that particular issue Shion, my issue has, and always will be, trying to argue that blanket resistances are a thing without feats or specific states of being(Which double as feats).

I'd actually agree that Resistance Negation requires feats of affecting resistances from more esoteric sources, the same thing of how I argue that resisting Time Stop doesn't mean you resist Time Cutting, because they aren't the same thing, the only connection is that they both come from doing something to Time. But that doesn't mean you resist both, because you do not have a feat to do so.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Bro are we ever gonna get to the match?

 

[TyphonEX]

Changing the character is completely unnecessary. Just change the arena to outside of the Moon Cell so BB doesn't have Ten Crowns. Unless that's a stomp in the Doomguy's favor?

My bad, I just realized that BB's Extra CCC profile only applies when she is in the Moon Cell (which I assume they specifically mean the Far Side of the Moon). Otherwise this profile applies to her and she gets stomped lol. I guess she has Ten Crowns' causality manip listed on her profile but I should be able to make it go away soon since she only has Ten Crowns rank D outside of it (which doesn't have the same hax as EX)

 

[Vietthai96]

This includes timestop lmao. That's because timestop simply reduces time to zero, which immeasurable characters obviously can move in. Are you telling me that immeasurable characters actually can't move in zero time?

Are you serious??, immeasurable speed have nothing to do with this situation, can you even understand my comment at all??, why bring immeasurable speed into this??, what i said is, just because you resist one application of time hax doesn't mean you resist all of its application, immeasurable speed on the other hand is completely different thing, i'm talking about resistance and hax, not speed

 

[TyphonEX]

Are you serious??, immeasurable speed have nothing to do with this situation, can you even understand my comment at all??, why bring immeasurable speed into this??, what i said is, just because you resist one application of time hax doesn't mean you resist all of its application, immeasurable speed on the other hand is completely different thing, i'm talking about resistance and hax, not speed

OK fine. I thought you were saying timestop works on Doomguy.

 

[Vietthai96]

OK fine. I thought you were saying timestop works on Doomguy.

Because somehow @ShionAH mentioned that if you resist Time Manipulation, you resist all kinds of time hax without the need of having feats, statements, etc....so i arguing him, this started because Shion said since Doomguy resist Power Null, he should also resist Resistance Negation, because it is a subpower of Power Null, despite Doomguy have no resistance to Resistance Negation, so i want to point it out that it is wrong, led to the whole debate about Time hax

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Nasuverse profile are trash.

Purge them if the fans are just bickering and arguing to one another instead of actually fixing the pages.