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Dong Dong Never Die

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Promestein

Promestein

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Without getting into how this page sucks, Dong Dong Never Die is a game made out of plagiarized bits and pieces. Mario is in it as a playable character. The plot is blatantly a ripoff of Terminator, except John Connor is a Chinese man named Dong Dong, or something. One of the characters has a move where Optimus Prime runs you over. I dunno if I'd call this a fanwork (it's its own setting and all), but I don't think it belongs on the wiki.
 
It doesn't look like a sort of aceptable crossover or just a game with lots of references like Neptunia so I agree.
 
I'm against the removal.

First, I don't think it is a crossover game since it still has some original stuff (such as some characters).

Second, I think the author does not think the game a crossover game overall. (rather, they prefer to think the game is an original game with references popular in mainland China at that time. The Terminator, The Transformer and KoF elements are something which is popular at that time.) In fact, I can list and translate all characters' back story if it is necessary, and some of them attend the "Street Figher" (街头霸王) competition for other purpose. You can say the protagonist, Dong Dong, is like John Connor, but not all other people. Even for Dong Dong, he has the evil form (violent Dong Dong), unlike John Connor. We will easily attracted by elements we are familiar with and think that's all. However, since I happen to know Chinese and is able to find developer's blogs, I found that the Mario, The Transformer and The Terminator is not all of their elements, but all of the elements which we are familiar with.

Third, the game is a free game.

I think DDND should not be removed. Also, I'll make sure characters like Mario are excluded.

Note: Jiang Xi Kong Long, the developer of the game, has been shown to be a fan of The Terminator and The Transformer. He once write a blog (in Chinese) to comment The Transformer 2 and The Terminator 4.

Note 2: If everyone want to know their back story, I can translate and list all of them to prove that this should not be removed. If giving me time, I can translate them well. Please don't do decision so quickly. Thank you.
 
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I didn't call it a crossover game and its original stuff doesn't matter when the rest is plagiarized. It being free does not matter. I don't care about the developer's personal interests. You could just move it to FCOC or JBW.
 
I'd like to clarify my point. First, despite it has some elements from our familiar original verses, it is original overall. Second, characters like Mario will be excluded and the profiles can be original enough to be in VS Battles Wiki.

For Mario's inclusion of the game, I have some quotes from developer's blog, stating that it is an eastern egg:

大约在2008年10月左右，我萌生了“在游戏中增加一位谁都想不到的隐藏人物”的想法。出于对马里奥大叔的尊敬，最终决定将它搬上舞台。
Click to expand...
Translation: About October 2008, the idea "adding a hidden character in [our] game which nobody would except" came into my mind. Because of [our] respect of Uncle Mario, [we] finally decided to bring him to the stage.
Click to expand...

马里奥的动作全部借鉴了《街头霸王》里的毫鬼。一方面我们这样做是出于恶搞的目的，另一方面我们认为利用马里奥以及豪鬼这2个大家熟悉的角色来混合出这样一位隐藏角色，制作难度要比原创角色低，爆笑程度、惊喜程度会略高于原创角色）
Click to expand...
Translation: Mario's movement is totally refer to Akuma from Street Figher. On the one hand, we did this for the purpose of e'gao*. On the other hand, we thought that using Mario and Akuma, the two characters which everyone is familiar with, and mixing them into the hidden character will have less design difficulty than original characters while having slightly more funny level and surprise level than original character. *"e'gao" could be translated into "kuso"
Click to expand...

很遗憾的是，2DFM并不支持用户数据记录，也就是说这款软件制作出来的游戏，无法做到“用户满足一定条件后，开启隐藏人物”。有时候挖掘隐藏角色（或信息）也是一种快乐，但我不得不直接将马里奥这个角色直接开启。
Click to expand...
Translation: Sadly, 2DFM does not support user data recording. It means that games developed by this software cannot do "unlocking the hidden character after certain conditions are met by users". Sometimes, digging the hidden character (and [hidden] information) is also a type of pleasure, but we had to unlock the character Mario directly.
Click to expand...

Also, the plot is not "the rest is plagiarized". In The Terminator series, main antagonist kidnapped challengers attending a competition, main protagonist's evil enegry being purposely triggered by the main antagonist, main protagonist in his evil side forced to fight against his will, every playable challengers being sent to hallucination where they must manage to break out if they don't want to be main antagonist's puppet, Shenzhou 7 successfully launched after main antagonist's defeat are high likely not appear. T-800 or other The Terminator never throw you into the 2-D game world. Talking about every challenger, their purposes of attending the competition are different. For example, Ming Boy. Here is his backstory:
因为喜欢做小学生的关系,今年20多岁的他,这些年来一直要求学校让他留在小学3年级.这次为了证明自己是世界上最强的小学生,明仔决定参加这次的比赛。
Click to expand...
Translation: Because of liking to be a schoolboy, he constantly request the school for repeating a year in Grade 3 while he is twenty years old. This time, to prove that he is the strongest schoolboy, Ming Boy decides to attend this competition.
Click to expand...

Personally, I have no problem moving it to FCOC Wiki or Joke Wiki. However, we should determine if it is original overall before taking any action. I need some new people's involvement in this argument.
 
Fine by me.
 
I would say FCOC. It could probably stay though.
It is silly but not a complete joke, so JB is out. The plot isn’t a complete ripoff and most of the characters are original and fine.
If having Mario in it is a big deal then we shouldn’t have any game with a cameo. It can’t even be called a crossover, most of the game is its own thing.
Cropfist said:
Having this page is about as appropriate as having Hong Kong 97.
Click to expand...
Why? It is an actual game with a ramshackle plot and seemingly decent gameplay. The worst comparison you could make is something like Invisible Dragon, which is allowed. Crude, yes, but not unacceptable.
 
I mean, there's also Optimus Prime.
 
Cropfist said:
Having this page is about as appropriate as having Hong Kong 97.
Click to expand...
Hong Kong 97 has controversial political content and possibly a massacre victim according to the consensus as reason of deletion, but this game clearly does not having these contents.
 
How is that an issue? He appears for one attack. Mario seems like the bigger issue but even then the rest of the game is fine. We would not remove MK for having guests, why wound this be different?
 
This game is stated to be not a crossover game. Rather, they prefer to say those non-original elements "cameo" or "eastern egg" as I noted in #6. The existence of those controversial elements are meant to make players feel familiar with.
 
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Because MK isn't plagiarizing them. Dong Dong Never Die is.
 
And funny enough, Dong Dong Never Die has a stickman. However, it has nothing to do with Henry Stickmin. You know, there is a wall and stickman in Chinese and rest countries are different.
 
Ican'tthinkof1goodname said:
We would need to delete Tari due to seemingly some crossover scaling, Halloween as the original contained some random film footage from what I have heard, Hollow Knight due to this video, Henry Stickmin due to all of the references, etc in order for the without permission point to work
Click to expand...

Absolutely not? Those are completely different. ****, the movie that shows up in Halloween is in the public domain, anyways. Complete false equivalency. Mario is a playable character and Optimus Prime is a part of another character's moveset. That's a lot different.
 
But still, I think the game are overall original despite certain controversial content exists. Even we decided to exclude the copyrighted content, profiles can still be made without issue. (the plot is overall original as I said #6) If we went extremely and excluded Dong Dong (related to The Terminator), The Terminator (However, no The Terminator would summon five people and launch them, then takes poses), Mario (the main argument), Mian Hua Tang (one of her attack is the Transformer stuff), we can still build up profiles for the remain. (The car sprite is from a Ford with a Chinese car licence) However, it is too much.

The game is free and the developer does not want to damage copyright holder's ability to gain profit from the copyrighted IP. That's another reason for me to keep the verse.
 
I agree with Promestein. Sorry Mariogoods.
 
00potato said:
We aren’t a legal team? Why does whether something is plagiarized or not matter to us? That is an issue for copyright law, not us.
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Because we do not allow what essentially boils down to a fanwork with crossover elements.
 
It is mostly its own thing with a few unofficial cameos. A better comparison would be Henry Stickman rather then a fan work. It is a somewhat notable game with mostly original characters, a few cameos don’t make it a fan work.
 
The question is that: if we don't let character like Mario in, could we keep it? If VS Battles Wiki cannot keep it, then could FC/OC can?

I agree with 00potato's view that "a few cameos don’t make it a fan work".

I'll be off for a long time.
 
It's not really a fanwork.

I think we should generally avoid putting copyright violations on the wiki, kinda opens up some weird potential issues.
 
I too believe that due to its ‘cameos’, especially with the attack that has Optimus show up, the verse could be risky to add. We don’t want to get caught in the crossfire of a legal debate after all, and with Dong Dong Never Die Content on the wiki we could be vulnerable to whatever happens to that verse, if I’m getting my Law right that is.
 
Promestein said:
It's not really a fanwork.

I think we should generally avoid putting copyright violations on the wiki, kinda opens up some weird potential issues.
Click to expand...
Why? Has it caused any problems in the past? People make videos about DDND all the time, and if we just not make a Mariokuma or Optimus girl profile, what issue could happen to us?
If we can get away with profiles for all of these other settings, even ones with parody and cameos, why is this suddenly and issue for Dongus?
 
Daddybrawl said:
I too believe that due to its ‘cameos’, especially with the attack that has Optimus show up, the verse could be risky to add. We don’t want to get caught in the crossfire of a legal debate after all, and with Dong Dong Never Die Content on the wiki we could be vulnerable to whatever happens to that verse, if I’m getting my Law right that is.
Click to expand...
That is not how the law works at all
 
What “precedent.” Why is it an issue if legal trouble isn’t a problem? Copyright is not our problem, we ain’t the law. It works as it’s own game, what more is there to ask?
I get it you are staff so my opinion doesn’t matter but come on.
 
Shigeru Miyamoto creator of Mario has admitted to the original Donkey Kong really being a Popeye game and that Link's clothes were stolen from Peter Pan, Moblins might be actually be based off of Maleficent's goons in the Disney movie. Miyamoto is a very big fan of stealing Disney's work if you can't tell.
 
I agree with Promestein. We should avoid setting precedents that could cause other members to want us to feature copyright-infringing verses that are extremely similar to fan works.

@AKM sama

What do you think?
 
Those are not copyright violations, Ican't. Inspiration is different from lifting a character from another property and dropping it into your own work without permission. You have to know this is a false equivalency.
 
Antvasima said:
I agree with Promestein. We should avoid setting precedents that could cause other members to want us to feature copyright-infringing verses that are extremely similar to fan works.

@AKM sama

What do you think?
Click to expand...
You are trying to stop a precedent of copyright infringement for what reason. It isn’t like DDND content has been hunted down before.
This is not even close to a fan work. A few cameos, and a somewhat unoriginal story don’t make a fan-work. The cast is mostly original, and it is notable in its own right.
 
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