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I’m definitely against Strange not being 4-B with his typical spells, especially considering that he’s stated to be capable of easily killing Green Scar Hulk if he wanted to.
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I don't think you know what the word typical implies Tracer.I’m definitely against Strange not being 4-B with his typical spells, especially considering that he’s stated to be capable of easily killing Green Scar Hulk if he wanted to.
Our current tiering for him seems mostly fine to me as well. However, the most low-level "street-tier" Marvel characters tend to be 9-A. Shouldn't he scale from them physically?I don’t even know what would support a 5-A tiering for Strange, aside from fighting the Mindless Ones (who are already inconsistent) and stomping a clone of Namor.
Although I would be fine with something like ‘Varies. 4-B, up to 2-A, possibly Low 1-C’ for his spells.
Compared to 4-B I'd rather say 5-A is more where his spells would typically land, yes.Didn’t you literally say he should be 5-A earlier-
Like, don’t start calling things dumb when you advocated for basically the same thing, just with a different tier.
Off of that statement yes, but honestly I think it might be a bit too inconsistent. Like, Odinforce Thor recently overpowered a Donald Blake with God of Magic Strange's power, I believe the wiki accepts Strange keeping the amp for the Damnation event, where he gets overpowered by Mephisto, and in the original run he had the pretty embarrassing Anti-Feat of the Void overpowering him in his original story.The God of Magic key would just be ‘2-A, possibly Low 1-C,’ right? Since Strange said it allowed him to feel more magic than ever before.
Not really.Void overpowering him in his original story.
In that case, maybe it should keep the ‘At least 2-C, possibly 2-A’ tier that it had before the page was deleted.Off of that statement yes, but honestly I think it might be a bit too inconsistent. Like, Odinforce Thor recently overpowered a Donald Blake with God of Magic Strange's power, I believe the wiki accepts Strange keeping the amp for the Damnation event, where he gets overpowered by Mephisto, and in the original run he had the pretty embarrassing Anti-Feat of the Void overpowering him in his original story.
I can get scans for all of these if you'd like, but I don't want to derail this thread too much.
I mean both aren't infallible, no disrespect. The points in the OP I think objectively note the problems with themDidn't PrinceOfTheMorning or @Sandman31 write our current Doctor Strange tiering? It seems quite well-informed, sensible, and elaborate already.
I don't know under what scenario does the 4-B scaling kick in, and what scenario the 3-A kicks in and what scenario does 2-A kick in, and I know with logic, Strange can perform spells far lower than 4-B, that the file refuses to acknowledge.Is there really an urgent need to change it?
Modern Strange isn't the best of pages we have ever written.Yeah the page already has enough on it to make 4-B look fine, and Modern Strange was rated as 4-B before the pages were made
As I already said, 4-B is the tier he has when on teams like the Defenders and the Avengers, and was agreed to have been his consistent level in the Modern era. While the Modern page wasn't the best written, it was still what was agreed upon, so unless his time on the Defenders, Avengers and the Modern era isn't relevant, the 4-B should stay. It's very different from something like 3-A which is a tier he rarely uses and doesn't work as a high-end.Modern Strange isn't the best of pages we have ever written.
Do you know the Hulk has a **** ton of feats under Tier 8? Relevance of having said key is more important, 4-B has no relevance.
Guys the point isn't Strange HAS 4-B feats, it's that his 4-B feats are being given a pointless distinction from his High 8-C feats, and his 5-A feats, and his Low 1-C feats, and his Tier 7 feats.
If I provide 10 feats for each tier, would you add all those tiers onto the page? No, right?
...do you know the Modern Strange page didn't go through the Tier 5 revisions because it was planned to be deleted regardless?As I already said, 4-B is the tier he has when on teams like the Defenders and the Avengers, and was agreed to have been his consistent level in the Modern era. While the Modern page wasn't the best written, it was still what was agreed upon
Also PrinceOfTheMorning and Sandman probably only considered the file from a Cosmology standpoint, at least I know Prince is unfamiliar with Mid to Low Tier Comics, and Strange is a character unique in the sense he's frequently collaborating with lower tiered charactersDidn't PrinceOfTheMorning or @Sandman31 write our current Doctor Strange tiering? It seems quite well-informed, sensible, and elaborate already. Is there really an urgent need to change it?
...and my revision is accounting for both scenarios.Yes, I usually accept Impress' suggestions, and think that she has a generally sensible attitude regarding the sheer inconsistency of Marvel and DC Comics, but as far as I have understood, Doctor Strange used to require significant amounts of preparation to be a threat to characters at the level of classic Dormammu at his peak, and other cosmic entities, whereas he was generally shown as comparable to regular 5-A to 4-B superhero powerhouses in terms of raw power.
Randomly accusing him of bias seems pretty uncalled for.Also again tell me right now, except for your arbitrary distinction right now, what logic total would distinguish his 4-B feats from far lower feats? Your bias?
General would be an arbitrary distinction, you can just put any tier there and it'll be equivalent, Strange fights 5-A the same amount he fights 4-B.Anyway, wouldn't listing lower, general and upper borders for such an extremely inconsistent character be more appropriate than just his maximum?
...do you know what bias means? It was in context to choosing one tier over other despite both having arbitrary differences. I don't see how this is in any way uncalled for.Randomly accusing him of bias seems pretty uncalled for.
I wasn't aware of that, but wasn't his 4-B off of saying he could defeat the Green Scar Hulk? While he was holding back for the World War Hulk storyline, the wiki still accepts the one from said storyline scaling about peak Savage....do you know the Modern Strange page didn't go through the Tier 5 revisions because it was planned to be deleted regardless?
Why's that? He's mostly scaled off of clones of characters like Hulk, Namor and Surfer. I don't see why their clones would be holding back.Almost all of Strange's 4-B feats would've been recontextualized to 5-A
How is "the power level he uses for a significant portion of his career" an arbitrary distinction? Also, my bias towards what?Also again tell me right now, except for your arbitrary distinction right now, what logic total would distinguish his 4-B feats from far lower feats? Your bias?
He can defeat Hulk with his Low 1-C key too, and his 3-A key, and every key because Strange surprisingly is haxxed as ****.I wasn't aware of that, but wasn't his 4-B off of saying he could defeat the Green Scar Hulk? While he was holding back for the World War Hulk storyline, the wiki still accepts the one from said storyline scaling about peak Savage.
This is in context to Modern Strange, who doesn't scale off this. Also even then Hulk is rarely ever 4-B, Namor we straight up rate 5-A, and Surfer is REALLY wonky.Why's that? He's mostly scaled off of clones of characters like Hulk, Namor and Surfer. I don't see why their clones would be holding back.
Because it's not a power he used for a significant portion of his career. You're making that part up.How is "the power level he uses for a significant portion of his career" an arbitrary distinction?
Refer to my response to Tracer.Also, my bias towards what?
Surprisingly, I'm fairly calm.You make some good points Impress, but please make an effort to be more respectful and polite. These are nice and helpful members, not hostile adversaries.
Honestly even old-timey Strange was 5-A and lower, more often than not, or reliant on non-AP hax.Anyway, should we give modern Strange a lower-rated statistics key?
Confluctor gave an example for Spider-Man tanking one of Doctor Strange's blast, that's the lowest tier I can think Doctor Strange being too, so that's the low-end coveredOkay. You need some good examples of his feats that warrant those tiers though.