DMC Minor Re-Scaling

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Again. Neither Vergil nor V or Griffin need to actually know what Malphas can exactly do, they just need to know she is a powerful demon that can **** up other demons with her abilities.

Like the example I gave above, I only need to know x guy can defeat a pro boxer to know I have no way to winning against them. Or that X is a pro chess player to know it's beyond my capabilities, etc, etc.

More than that, the nightmares actually have their memories from their original selfs that Dante killed, it won't be hard to assume they also have their knowledge which should logically include those strong demons.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Again. Neither Vergil nor V or Griffin need to actually know what Malphas can exactly do, they just need to know she is a powerful demon that can **** up other demons with her abilities.

They do because of the fact that they fearing something that they don't even know if is able to harm on him is pure bs, they are part of one of the strongest Demon Kings in DMC universe and fought alongside him for thousands years against Pluto and Argosax armies. Mind you that in Vol2 Dante and co marched to the DW and faced not only demons from Alt Mundus's army, but also traps along the way, whcih shows that on a war between demons, being able to deal with stuff like Malphas's stones is not something new for the Mundus's general squad. So yeah, saying that they fears because of her stones don't work when they are already prepared for this type of situations.

And considering that all they need to do is use Nightmare to one shot her from a safe distance to end everything, but still fearing for their lifes is proof that she is more then powerfull enought to tank Nightmare's blow and survive to tell tale, and as show when V used him to one shot some fodders demons in previous chapters shows that he can use for his own safety if needed. Mind you that V also uses Nightmare to kill Goliath in chapter 33.2 despite being inside the dimension of Malphas, which despite healing his body, the dimension stole his demonic power while we know that V and his summons need demonic power to do any type of supernatural shit. So if V on his worst demonic power wise was still able to use Nightmare without any type of problems and even when he was not only losing demonic power by himself, but also getting his power also stolen by the stones, would be very ridiculous to say he was not going to use him when he was healthy to finish her and specially when he was in a very bad state to survive if only a single shot from Nightmare would save their lives, specially that by demonic power rules if you have more DE then others demons, you automatically have better AP, speed, LS, Durability and layered scaling chain of haxs. So, Nightmare would easily blitz and destroy Malphas in one single attack if she was weaker then him, but i'm guess is more then clear now that V not using him against her in their encounters is not because he can't use him, is because Vs Nightmare too weak to kill her even when he was at his peak power.

Now even though the shadows counterparts are much weaker then their original versions as mentioned by Griffon (Chapter 7), V's Nightmare was easily powerful enought to easely destroy the DW as mentioned by V, which put him above the likes of Pluto since he need to use all his powers or a good chunk of it to perform his 1-C feats, which obviously makes Malphas a pretty strong demon above even PoC DT Dante in the scaling chain, while OG Nightmare, who was stated to need a power comparable to the Demon King Mundus himself to surpass him in strength seals the deal that he was the strongest general of Mundus in DMC1 events (Yeah Nelo Angelo and DMC1 Dante before their last encounter with each other gets trashed by OG Nightmare).

About DMC 5 Nero's scaling, V mentions that he got stronger to the point that he was wondering that if he could defeat Urizen, which speaks volume of his new power, while V also mentions that if Nero got DSS with him he would be able to defeat Urizen, and we see what happens when he fought Urizen in the game, broke Yamato's shield and slice Urizen's hand, and before somebody trow the bs outlier card for no good reason, give one single reason why Nero scaling to Urizen is a outlier when Nero have many statements of his scaling in DMC5, while he casually destroy demons that are stronger then PoC DT Dante level like Malphas with easy without serious effort?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

That's in mission 14, the statement mister linked is during mission 5,V was not weak there and went on to casually kill geryon afterwards

V is extremely cautious about who he deals with. Even if they are in his capability to defeat.
For example against Gilgamesh, Griffon is surprised V is running away, implying Griffon wouldn't have minded scrapping with Gilga... but V runs away anyways because it's more hassle than it's worth. The guy is stingy as **** about fighting. Just because he has the money doesn't mean he is going to spend it.

Cavelier is special case because, he recognised who was it's core and wanted to rescue Trish. But ultimately failed to defeat Cavelier fully... because even though he easily stomped Geryon+Cavelier... he still gets weakened by the end and is incapable of pursuing her. Just shows how even relatively safe altercations can be taxxing for his body. Lets not forget his power works differently from his body. Even when he is spending less of his energy... his body still takes a toll.
Now imagine putting him up against Malphas.
He is just getting negged from start or even by end of fight purely off of this alone.

makes 0 sense for it not to be treated that way. how did vergil summon dmc1 griffon's memories out of nowhere?

That's called plot convinience. Who else but Mundus's own generals do the exposition on Underworld shenanigans. They ain't gonna let generals being nightmare stop 'em from utilizing originals' memories. That's one area originals and nightmares overlap.

vergil's memories are separated between them, that's why V knows stuff that urizen doesn't, that's why griffon knows stuff

??? They aren't.... how did you reach that conclusion?

and whose to say he does? now we're just stuck in a loop of "who's to say this and who's to say that" let's leave our assumptions out of this and think of the most logical and believable interpretation of the statement. what makes more sense, griffon knowing every single detail regarding malphas's powers, or him knowing that's she's simply powerful? most demons have sensing capabilities, they (includin griffon) can take a look at her and know she's powerful but can they know

Fact of the matter is... V/Vergil knows stuff you think he shouldn't.
That's
1)either because he has firsthand knowledge through experience or underworld version of "Did You Know? Encyclopedia " or hot gossip rumours.
2) Or nightmares have been straight up given original memories for exposition sake.
Pick your poison.

Also Vergil/Generals don't need to know every detail about Malphas. They only need to know her by reputation and her bread snd butter skills. All of which reliance on sorcery magic fuckery. Her accomplishments speak for themselves on that front.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They do because of the fact that they fearing something that they don't even know if is able to harm on him is pure bs, they are part of one of the strongest Demon Kings in DMC universe and fought alongside him for thousands years against Pluto and Argosax armies. Mind you that in Vol2 Dante and co marched to the DW and faced not only demons from Alt Mundus's army, but also traps along the way, whcih shows that on a war between demons, being able to deal with stuff like Malphas's stones is not something new for the Mundus's general squad. So yeah, saying that they fears because of her stones don't work when they are already prepared for this type of situations.

We already explained this several times with Gilver.

What thousands of years? Their fight with Pluto and Argosax was pretty much almost immediate, no war no anything.

How are you comparing some random traps to Malphas stones? Do you have any scans suggesting they are the same or anything like that?

And considering that all they need to do is use Nightmare to one shot her from a safe distance to end everything, but still fearing for their lifes is proof that she is more then powerfull enought to tank Nightmare's blow and survive to tell tale, and as show when V used him to one shot some fodders demons in previous chapters shows that he can use for his own safety if needed. Mind you that V also uses Nightmare to kill Goliath in chapter 33.2 despite being inside the dimension of Malphas, which despite healing his body, the dimension stole his demonic power while we know that V and his summons need demonic power to do any type of supernatural shit. So if V on his worst demonic power wise was still able to use Nightmare without any type of problems and even when he was not only losing demonic power by himself, but also getting his power also stolen by the stones, would be very ridiculous to say he was not going to use him when he was healthy to finish her and specially when he was in a very bad state to survive if only a single shot from Nightmare would save their lives, specially that by demonic power rules if you have more DE then others demons, you automatically have better AP, speed, LS, Durability and layered scaling chain of haxs. So, Nightmare would easily blitz and destroy Malphas in one single attack if she was weaker then him, but i'm guess is more then clear now that V not using him against her in their encounters is not because he can't use him, is because Vs Nightmare too weak to kill her even when he was at his peak power.

Ah yeah, because V needed to kill her immediately and drop his already low reserves of demonic power and risk dying, all that for a cheap kill, makes absolutely all the sense in the world.

Those "previous chapters" are from 1 month early, you can't compare V from just a few days of life from the one at the end of the month that after a few hours fighting is already crumbling.

The fact that V got healed means he got demonic power, he only lost "power" in the sense that he doesn't have his attack card. Using Nightmare in the dimension that is healing him is quite the good strategy, unlike what you propose he should have done with Malphas.

Again, why is he gonna pull nightmare when he knows he doesn't have the time and demonic energy to pull him out without dying? Hell by the time he reaches Malphas he can barely stand up and is already crumbling, his best option there was hiding and avoiding a fight

And wanna know the best part? Griffin straight up said they don't have the strength anymore to confront her, which a crumbling V confirms.

If they were in their peak condition (1 month ago) she would have been dealt with just like any other boss.

Now even though the shadows counterparts are much weaker then their original versions as mentioned by Griffon (Chapter 7), V's Nightmare was easily powerful enought to easely destroy the DW as mentioned by V, which put him above the likes of Pluto since he need to use all his powers or a good chunk of it to perform his 1-C feats, which obviously makes Malphas a pretty strong demon above even PoC DT Dante in the scaling chain, while OG Nightmare, who was stated to need a power comparable to the Demon King Mundus himself to surpass him in strength seals the deal that he was the strongest general of Mundus in DMC1 events (Yeah Nelo Angelo and DMC1 Dante before their last encounter with each other gets trashed by OG Nightmare).

I already debunked this shit, you are just using the same arguments.

Malphas look above.

The Nightmare being comparable to Mundus was debunked above too.

Like, you are only repeating debunked arguments at this point.

About DMC 5 Nero's scaling, V mentions that he got stronger to the point that he was wondering that if he could defeat Urizen, which speaks volume of his new power, while V also mentions that if Nero got DSS with him he would be able to defeat Urizen, and we see what happens when he fought Urizen in the game, broke Yamato's shield and slice Urizen's hand, and before somebody trow the bs outlier card for no good reason, give one single reason why Nero scaling to Urizen is a outlier when Nero have many statements of his scaling in DMC5, while he casually destroy demons that are stronger then PoC DT Dante level like Malphas with easy without serious effort?

Ah shit I wonder if I can reach space or the speed of light, does that mean I can? Obviously no, same thing here. V wonders if Nero can do anything because he is his very last resort, there is nothing else for him and so he puts all his faith in Nero. That absolutely does not mean he scales.

Breaking the shield is the biggest outlier in verse. Are we gonna assume that a weaker Nero is capable of something that a much more stronger Dante could barely pull off?

Again no demons stronger than Dante.


From the looks of it you are just not gonna concede and that's okay, it doesn't mean your arguments are working in any way tho. If you want to continue then count the votes or the people that agree/disagree, I'm done with this repetitive thread.

 

[Ibrahem]

is extremely cautious about who he deals with. Even if they are in his capability to defeat.
For example against Gilgamesh, Griffon is surprised V is running away, implying Griffon wouldn't have minded scrapping with Gilga... but V runs away anyways because it's more hassle than it's worth. The guy is stingy as **** about fighting. Just because he has the money doesn't mean he is going to spend it.

Cavelier is special case because, he recognised who was it's core and wanted to rescue Trish. But ultimately failed to defeat Cavelier fully... because even though he easily stomped Geryon+Cavelier... he still gets weakened by the end and is incapable of pursuing her. Just shows how even relatively safe altercations can be taxxing for his body. Lets not forget his power works differently from his body. Even when he is spending less of his energy... his body still takes a toll.
Now imagine putting him up against Malphas.
He is just getting negged from start or even by end of fight purely off of this alone.

V was genuinely tired when he sees gilgamesh, he himself says "that's alot more than i can take on right now" or something of the sort. he makes no such comment when he sees malphas or when he fight geryon.
Also V is willing to summon nightmare even against lesser demons when he knows he can finish the job quickly, he does this in both VoV and in dmc5. if he can one shot malphas (which is your claim since you believe nightmare is 1C while malphas is not) then he would have no reason to avoid her

That's called plot convinience. Who else but Mundus's own generals do the exposition on Underworld shenanigans. They ain't gonna let generals being nightmare stop 'em from utilizing originals' memories. That's one area originals and nightmares overlap

but they never utilise the original's memories or even show a hint of having said memories, you're just assuming that with no bases. that's on top of the fact that it makes no sense like i said.

??? They aren't.... how did you reach that conclusion?

bruh.... why do you think urizen doesn't remember vergil's childhood while V does? why do you think griffon can tell V stuff that V doesn't know? because not all of them share all of vergil's memories and knowledge, it's divided between them

Fact of the matter is... V/Vergil knows stuff you think he shouldn't.
That's
1)either because he has firsthand knowledge through experience or underworld version of "Did You Know? Encyclopedia " or hot gossip rumours.
2) Or nightmares have been straight up given original memories for exposition sake.
Pick your poison.

already addressed this, you're still making far more assumptions than me, which means my argument is superior to yours by default.
Also your second point doesn't work because
1) like i said, the nightmares can't have the memories or the originals
2)you have no evidence of them having said memories even if we ignore the fact that it's illogical. you're trying to support an assumption with another assumption which doesn't work

 

[Ibrahem]

also, one of the counter arguments that was presented earlier in tge thread was "griffon knows the crystals can bfr V so even if nightmare knocked down malphas, V can't finish her off because he can't get close therefore griffon thinks they shouldn't fight her"
like i said earlier, not only is this illogical cuz it would imply that griffon knows every single detail regarding how malphas powers work, but V can finish off his enemies from a distance anyway, and he does that in gameplay too (anyone who played dmc5 can confirm) so yeah the argument doesn't work in the slightest

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Ño, I already said my piece. No more arguments from me.

 

[Mister6ame6]

We already explained this several times with Gilver.

Well, dunno if you did, but gonna take your word on that specially because i'm lazy to check alll the previus comment before me after getting sick for days

What thousands of years? Their fight with Pluto and Argosax was pretty much almost immediate, no war no anything.

Ehh not really, is stated that Mundus amassed a entire army to go against Pluto and Sparda before awakening to justice was stated to be one of the very reasons of why Mundus became the new Demon King and Argosax and Mundus's war separeted the DW in two parts for eacth Demon King, so the lore statements literally tells that their war taked some good chunk of time before it comes to end, Argosax only taked full control of the DW after Sparda betrayed and sealed Mundus in a vault on his throne.

How are you comparing some random traps to Malphas stones? Do you have any scans suggesting they are the same or anything like that?

Because it shows that they are already have experience to handle demonic traps, so Malphas's ones should not be a problem for then, and since Malphas don't have any worthwhile statements of her traps being something above the rest, is not hard to guess that they are talking about her power being to much for V and co to handle it.

Ah yeah, because V needed to kill her immediately and drop his already low reserves of demonic power and risk dying, all that for a cheap kill, makes absolutely all the sense in the world.

Anything that he do will cost him DE, so he using Nightmare to save his ass if there is someone that can kill him, Shadow and Griffon would be off of the table, but you got a fair point there when he encouters Malphas for the fist time.

Those "previous chapters" are from 1 month early, you can't compare V from just a few days of life from the one at the end of the month that after a few hours fighting is already crumbling.

The fact that V got healed means he got demonic power, he only lost "power" in the sense that he doesn't have his attack card. Using Nightmare in the dimension that is healing him is quite the good strategy, unlike what you propose he should have done with Malphas.

Again, why is he gonna pull nightmare when he knows he doesn't have the time and demonic energy to pull him out without dying? Hell by the time he reaches Malphas he can barely stand up and is already crumbling, his best option there was hiding and avoiding a fight

And wanna know the best part? Griffin straight up said they don't have the strength anymore to confront her, which a crumbling V confirms.

If they were in their peak condition (1 month ago) she would have been dealt with just like any other boss.

You have some good points there, can't disagree with you on that.

I already debunked this shit, you are just using the same arguments.

Well, i'm missed some good chunk of debate, but if the entire argument for saying that PoC is wrong is because of Dane getting easely stomped by statue Mundus, i'm don't see why that even matter because they are just saying that Nightmare is Mundus strongest general, friendly reminder that if Nelo and Nightmare are remotely close in power to Mundus, he would never et then alive imo, as mentioned in vol 2 Mundus is very cautious about creating demons that are stronger then him, so everything makes sense when you realize all that.

And if the other one is Nelo having skill to rival Dante, let me tell you that we have alot of demons that are comparable to Dante and Nero despite not being remotely close in skill to mach then in a fight, Nero mentions that Berial's attack is not even half as deadly or fast as Dante's ones, but still was having problems to kill him as whe see in the novel, later, we something similar with Echidna and Agnus, who both survive Nero's attacks and only got injured in the process, same with Sanctus with DSS, which Nero mentions that his skills are not even close to Credo's ones (Yeah, Credo is the only in DMC4 and DF that matches Nero in skills other then just raw physical stats on each occasions that they fought against Nero). Another thing, Lucia is stated that despite being the new guardian of the Vila of the Marli Clan (The guys that survive against Argosax for hours to no end in a blood battle, and eventually started losing the war before Sparda came to help then while Argo is stated to be made of every demon form and ability in the DMC verse), she is stated that she lacks the necessary skills to defeat Arius, but eventually improve to the point that they mention that Arius stand no chance against her in term of skills in combat, even thought she lost because of Arius using magic shenarigans to defeat her in combat. Oh lets not forget the monkey demon guy on vol 1, who was casually tanking Tony's attacks, but was not near close in skill comparable to him.

So, unless you are saying that every demons that is remotelly comparable to Dante and Nero on physical stats should get wanked to say that they have similar skills level to then despite the lore showing otherwise, i'm don't think i'm need to say more about that Nightmare being comparable to DMC 1 Dante in raw power, but not in skill just make sense, specially when is weaker shadow version is more then able to easely destroy the DW (Which easely put him above Pluto since he need to use all his power while even V's Nightmare easely shill and send the DW to hell while his OG version is massively more stronger than that, if you are massively stronger then Pluto and PoC Dante, you are DMC1 Dante level lul, and add PoC scan speaking about needing to be on Mundus's level to surpass him in power, makes very obvious that Nightmare is Mundus strongest general in DMC1 events.

The Nightmare being comparable to Mundus was debunked above too.

If the entire debunk is using statue Mundus easley stomping Dante, just look above

Ah shit I wonder if I can reach space or the speed of light, does that mean I can? Obviously no, same thing here. V wonders if Nero can do anything because he is his very last resort, there is nothing else for him and so he puts all his faith in Nero. That absolutely does not mean he scales.,

V was wondering if Nero can defeat a Urizen version that is more stronger then the one that defeated DT Dante one mouth prior to his comeback to the city and was thinking that someone weaker then that Dante is capable to pull that is pure bs, V can sense power Tony, he knows where demons are in term of scaling, is double standards at his finest to say he knows where Malphas, Urizen and Nightmare are in term of power, but not Nero when he states many times of how stronger he is now, and when he shows that all V's statements about are true people trow outilier for no good reason, friendly reminder that using the outlier card is the last argument to use if can't debunk scans and arguments.

Nero awakening his True DT and jumping tiers over tiers is not only insane, but don't hold zero grounds to stand himself, DMC1 and 5 Dante on each occasions did not jump tiers in power, even when Dante and Nero got their DT awakened their did not jump in power via tiers only more higher in the scaling (Yeah, they scale above PoC Lady who can wield H6-A Devil Arms), so all the tiers jump in the series are not made via swords amps, the only exception seems to be when Vergil resonate with FE in M20 of DMC3 Nero in M20 with DSS

Breaking the shield is the biggest outlier in verse. Are we gonna assume that a weaker Nero is capable of something that a much more stronger Dante could barely pull off?

Debunked this above, V literally tells where he is on the scaling after training for a entire mouth, so no, Early Game Dante is not near as close as strong as Devil Breaker Nero, and another thing to mentions, is that Nero's physiology is superior then Dante and Vergil, meaning that what he did against Urizen is the byproduct of him being able to evolve more faster then the twins, just like he did against Vergil in the end of the game when they fought against each other.

From the looks of it you are just not gonna concede and that's okay, it doesn't mean your arguments are working in any way tho. If you want to continue then count the votes or the people that agree/disagree, I'm done with this repetitive thread.

Fair enougth, i'm said all i wanted to say on this thread, if nobody have anything more to say, then just call Glass to evalueate the OP then.

Now if you guys excuse me, i'm going back to Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

No, you. Cope.

Call staff or something cuz this is never gonna end.

Also you are playing the besto souls game in the series.