PoC is just saying that he is Mundus's strongest general, they are just not going specific of which form of Mundus they are talking about. You are talking that statement a bit too literal bro.
That's not what the scan says and not why you where using it. If I'm taking the scan literally then why are you even using it? You are not making sense here.
''Revive'' in this context would be Nightmare trying to heal his damage that he took from Dante's attacks, the fact that even others guidebooks like Precius Tears mentions that Dante needed to attack him multiple times untill he eventually killed him is the proof of that, mind you that Dante mentions that demons when in the brink of death became 10 times more dangerous than before, so yeah, Nightmare's RE was kicking more harder than before.
The **** are you talking about? There is no context here besides what it says and what happens in game, it straight up means trying to heal himself from the damage Dante has inflicted upon him which literally happens in game. Needing to attack him multiple times is not proof of anything since Nightmare is a blob and has multiple core.
Again, just because demons in general have RE doesn't mean that Nightmare was evolving or some shit to compete with Dante at all. Bring proof that Nightmare did or just drop it.
He is not dying, he already did died and come back lul, Mundus is just injured from their previous fight.
Where is the ******* scan that says Mundus died?
Idk man, Precius Tears state that Dante and Mundus was having toe to toe fight and then Dante almost defeat him, but he survive and casually hurt Dante with two mere rays of light to the point of him falling from the sky while before that they are lliterally toe to toe and even mentions that is to show ''the absolute difference in power between both him and Dante'' don't see to be a mere coincidence in my eyes.
In a fight between 2 equally matched characters one mistake can be fatal. That absolutely does not mean they are getting stronger here without any statement or showing of that.
'the absolute difference in power between both him and Dante''
Again you are pulling shit out of nowhere, the scan says :"Mundus too, lived up to his name as a demon emperor. The overwhelming destructive power of rays of light, flaming bullets, and even blasting molten to intercept him."
There is nothing about an absolute power difference between them.
He did he exploded like Nelo Angelo, demons commit self-destruct when they die in case you did not know (DF)
He absolutely did not explode,
half of his body got vaporized and then it became a white screen.
The scan from the memorial album doesn't say a single thing about him dying either.
Just that he vanished into the void (aka he fleed into his own pocket dimension to escape from Dante) when he realized he was gonna get killed.
Dante's rage is what started kicking the release of the sword's power, we even put that as Rage Power feat on Dante's profile some year ago, what you are complaining about that now?
Because this isn't rage power, its literally the sword of Sparda amping him, yeah he is mad as **** and bloodlusted but his power doesn't come from that, that's why it isn't rage power.
Debunked majority of the arguments above, and also add to the fact that they say that Mundus was taken Dante's attacks casually when before that he almost got defeat by him just make even more obvious that he was stronger when they fought inside the volcano.
You didn't debunk anything, all the contrary you are showing how dumb all this is.
And again nothing you have posted proves your points.
They say that ifrit restrained Dante in place, so idk, could just Dante growing stronger to submit him.
With Hellfire, something we already have in the profile.
Same thing as before, void arguments with scans that support absolutely nothing.
Just like i'm said to Oliver, Nightmare can casually destroy the DW whitheout effort while Pluto needs to use his all his power or a good part of it to do his 1-C feat.
Where does it says that Pluto had to use all or a good part of his powers for that? Or that nightmare can casually destroy the DW?
That's means by statements Nightmare is stronger then Pluto and add to the fact that he is able to macth Urizen, who is Nelo Angelo level or higher along with being stated that you need to be on Mundus level to surpass him in strength just solidify that he is on DMC1 Dante
Again, 0 statements, 0 scans and debunked arguments. The would matching urizen is irrelevant when Urizen already scales lower than Nelo angelo.
Untill you proof that Vergil dropoed tiers in power, is just you headcanon man, Vergil mentions before separating himself that he wanted to discard his human side (Flesh, soul, memorys, etc) to became a true demon and later V confirms he got more power from separeting his demon to human side, so seems pretty simple to understand that Urizen is comparable or stronger then his Nelo Angelo self.
S
o you are telling me that a vergil that can barely walk and fight some fodder is supposed to be in peak condition comparable to a stronger form made by mundus to specifically take his weakness away?
I'm tempted to drop this argument here and just ignore this thread completely you know
All that shit about getting more power was already debunked above, let me repeat myself:
V obviously believed that Nightmare could match and defeat Urizen, the demonic half of the DYING VERGIL, who should be way weaker than his Nelo Angelo self. This does not give any form of scaling beyond a possible lower scaling for Urizen. Here is a key point btw, V realizes he CAN'T USE Nightmare for more than a few seconds, that alone already made him doubt he could defeat Urizen.
Vergil considered his humanity a weakness (because he has mommy issues) but that is irrelevant because we know humanity shit makes demons stronger (Dante, Vergil, Sparda, etc.)
V didn't say he got "much more power", just "in exchange he got power" while looking at Yamato, the blade that boost everyone in verse.
I don't even know if he is even
talking about Urizen or if he is talking about Vergil. Your argument is even worse than before.
He gained Yamato and he gained power with Yamato. Becoming a full demon by itself isn't what gave him power (and considering that we don't know if he is talking about Urizen or Vergil then I really doubt even more your arguments)
Same thing as before, 0 scans, 0 arguments, all debunked, etc.
Good think that is not the only proof i'm used for Nightmare scaling right? They even mention that Dante needed to attack him multiple times untill he eventually killed him, Nightmare's fights context are different my friend.
And all the proof you used was debunked, irrelevant or out of place here so we are back to what I said. No proof that Nightmare scales to him.
I'm going to start ignoring your explained above comments and considere them debunked
Mundus was also a worthy opponent for Dante should we take all the scans that he even almost killed Dante casually on his statue form as bs too? And alos, all of the scans here are before Dante fought Nightmare even for the fist time, so you ''proof'' is irrelevant here.
Did you even read what I said?
3) Just to kill this off for good this time: Only Nelo Angelo (Vergil) has proved to be a danger and an equal match to Dante during DMC1 (
with the obvious exception of Mundus himself) and this
was stated several times with the damn guide even saying how
Dante's heart was filled with excitement at the chance encounter with a worthy opponent.
And no, this scan goes up to mission 17, you fight Nightmare in mission 16. Also another thing of notice, if Nightmare was remotely as powerful as you are trying to make it to be it would be noticed in the memorial album or somewhere else but instead all the sources say how Nelo was the only one to match Dante.
Basically no, Nightmare doesn't scale.
V disagrees with you bro.
Same thing as above.
Vergil wanting to discard his human side to become a true demon to be stronger then he was in life and literally showing a panel of Nelo Angelo when he do that is not really a indication of what Vergil is trying to do right?
He literally talks about emotions and stuff in the scan, and even mentions that ''Vergil trow all that away in exchange for power, and thanks to it, he obtained power''. He only mentions Yamato because she was the instrument that he used to separate himself. Of course, that both Nero's Devil Bringer and Yamato gived Urizen a massive amout of demonic power, but that don't change that trowing his human side did too, according with V at least.
There is a difference between wanting to get rid of your something by yourself (Vergil-Urizen) to becoming a slave for someone else in exchange to get power and the same thing as before (Vergil-Nelo), so no, this isn't the same.
Vergil considered his humanity a weakness (because he has mommy issues) but that is irrelevant because we know humanity shit makes demons stronger (Dante, Vergil, Sparda, etc.)
V didn't say he got "much more power", just "in exchange he got power" while looking at Yamato, the blade that boost everyone in verse.
I don't even know if he is even
talking about Urizen or if he is talking about Vergil.
But regardless, if he is talking about Urizen getting power or Vergil embracing his demonic side to get powerful, it doesn't justify Urizen being as strong as Nelo.
According to V and what Vergil and VOV implies in the manga, he is stronger then his Nelo Angelo self tho.
IDK what manga are you reading but nowhere in the scans you used is that even remotely implied.
He only got the boost after becoming Urizen for some reason, or otherwise, Vergil would have got stronger too.
Ofc Vergil got it too but it was irrelevant to him as he was dying. Hell even the remnants of his humanity got enough power to change power with Nightmare.
Dante literally start in SDT when he fought Urizen even in the game himself and you want me to believe that he was fighting in base form just because? Do i'm need to point that DT and STD have time limit?
Because he just obtained the form and rushed there in hopes of saving Nero, what did you expect? To get there with a new form and immediately drop it to blueball every single player who just got a new shiny form? Hell
even the game shows he didn't even need it as he casually ragdolled Urizen in base form.
Even more proof of this is the gameplay itself, SDT eat's Urizen health bar in a couple of hits, it does with every enemy but here it is more notable and its just to show how much stronger Dante is in comparison.
SDT has a timelimit, DT doesn't but that's irrelevant.
The gudebook shows Urizen tooking Dante's attacks in SDT and still being alive to the point that was able to hurt Dante himself meaning that they are comparable to eacth other, again, Do i'm need to point that DT and STD have time limit?
Taking 1 attack doesn't mean he is suddenly comparable to Dante and again, the game literally shows base Dante manhandling Urizen. If the game showed DT or SDT Dante then you would have a point but alas that isn't the case.
Because she directly fought against Argosax with Sealed Sparda like the scan points? Yes the whole clan fought alongside Sparda against Argosax and his army. Demon Kings have an army of demons 9Likely infinity if we take Dante's commet in vol2 about Mundus's army as not hyperbole) in their command in case you forgot that tiny big ass detail
She did fight alongside sparda but as she said,
so did her whole clan. Absolutely nothing changes. Argosax had an army but that doesn't mean the whole clan was fighting them while only 2 demons took on argosax. Hell nowhere does it say his army got summoned there either. The only demons that we know where there are Argosax and Bolverk. Maybe fodder that made it across the holes but nothing else about his army.
So no, this doesn't mean she was the only one fighting with him.
Wot? I literally says both Nero are comparable, so i'm don't understand your point here
My bad there, I meant to say they are NOT in the same power level.
He have what do you think is he DT in DMC5 Tony? Do also need to point that his doppelganger is the true power of Devil Bringer awakened, a projection of his own soul and a reflection of his true power awakened?
Nero CAN'T awaken a DT, HE DOES NOT HAVE ONE DURING DMC4. You are literally using a concept art that never made it into the game or the novel. Wtf?
I never said anything about DMC5. Ah yes, the true power of his
DEVIL BRINGER, not a devil trigger that manifests his demonic powers by transforming him into his true self (a demon)
Is like saying Dante don't have Majin because DMC3 and 4 never shows or mentions the form in any shape and form.
There is a big ass difference between a transformation that exist in a manga and a game (majin form) and something that only exist in discarded concepts that never made it into the games or novels (perfect devil trigger/DMC4 Nero DT)
Never said he got all the power of the sword tho? Considering that even on human form Sanctus is
stated to have got a massive amount of demonic power and he keep up with M11 Nero, i pretty sure Diabiloca Sanctus statement is pretty clear that he far above anythint in the verse to the point of being 1-C is not really a wrong interpretation of his scans, especially with Agnus's statement with make even more obvious that even without DSS, DS is on a tier of his own.
Then why are you even making him tier 1?
Again, having gained a massive amout of power is the most vague line ever. There is 0 point of comparision for us to properly scale.
What you are sure about is irrelevant to us because it is headcanon. Nowhere is ever stated that Sanctus Diabolica was far above anything in the verse or that he was a god tier. Agnus statement is equally shit tier since he has never encountered and let alone fought a God tier. The ****** didn't even know about Nightmare.
All of this is just enough to make him stronger than most of the cast of DMC4, of which
ONLY 1 IS A GOD TIER AND SACNTUS DOES NOT SCALE TO HIM
Never said he got all the power of the sword tho?
Same thing as above. If he never got the full power then why making him tier 1?
Sanctus is just saying that DSS didn't give him all the power of DSS, not that he got any boost from the sword, is even mentioned in guidebooks that Sanctus after becoming a demon resonated better with the sword then when he was a human.
Resonating better with Sparda =/= getting some massive boost of power from it.
Hell if anything thats the only reason why he could use the sword and not get ****** like Arkham.
You explained shit
Already debunked that some comments above.
You did not.
Ok, don't change that one single full charge attack from Nightmare is still not enough to kill her, similar to Urizen, which means that she scales to Nightmare
LMAO.
Give me the scan that says a full charge attack form nightmare wont kill her.
Already explained the urizen shit in my original post.
Considering that he was wondering that if he could defeat Urizen or not with his new power, proves that he is 1-C becasue a tier 6, likely H4-C, will never ever stand a chance against Urizen, especially after one entire mouth of human blood boost, so Nero being V last hope don't change that Devil Breaker Nero is still 1-C
That proves absolutely nothing. I could wonder if I can make it to space but that doesn't mean I can do it.
V being desparate to use anything is not proof of anything.
I'm having an aneurysm with these arguments.
Nero have more potential then Dante, Vergil and Sparda as stated in DF, and show in both the game, novel and also show in DMC5 game and manga, so no, Nero feat is legit and should be knowledgeable on his profile.
Having more potential =/= Having power or being powerful enough.
It is a legit outlier. The feat exists, it happened but it doesn't stop it from being an outlier. We don't use those.
If he knows about Malphas's stones abilities, then why he and V get easily cauth by then so easely? Answer me that Tony
He knows about Malphas, the powerful
sorceress of hell. For someone like that to make themselves know you have to do something relevant, like idk, ******* some powerful demon with magic or something like that.
Take that into account to know you only need basic level of knowledge to know you are not in a good position in certain situations. Like, I only need to know that mike tyson is the boxer champion to know I have no way of beating him, and thats without getting in deep about his feats.
Also Nightmare's have 1-C range, so your argument is muda anyway
How is it uselsess? V pulls Nightmare some planets away and then ******* dies to the other demons or the lack of demonic power? Yeah that's some godly strategy for someone who is trying to survive and use the less amount of power as possible.
He still was healthy when he encountered Malphas, so V have more than enough power to destroy her with Nightmare and survive to tell the tale.
Same thing as above. Using Nightmare there would have ****** him up beyond belief. Just look at the timeline.
Around 7 AM V encounters Malphas for the first time, around 5 hours later he can barely run normally and then 2 hours later he starts breaking down. V already knew he didn't have much time left and pulling Nightmare there would just have made it worse. He had no need to risk everything just for a cheap kill that didn't guarantee he was gonna merge with Urizen.
Don't change that he still can use Nightmare in a desperate move if necessary meaning my point still stands.
Oh yeah, he can pull Nightmare out of desperation but 1) He wasn't in a desperate situation at that point so he had absolutely no reason to do it 2) Look above 3) He had no reason to confront Malphas and Cavalier outside of wanting to prevent them from reaching the Sparda (which he did by taking on Cavalier alone)
That don't change that he can use Nightmare in a desperate move if needed tho.
Same as above and my first post.
I'll have to disagree with you here. Knowing who malphas is doesn't mean he knows all her abilities or what kind of strategy she would use against them. Griffon didn't even know that malphas would leave V by himself after stealing the familiars, he says "hey you're alive!" when he meets V again.
Malphas also didn't do that bfr stuff against nero, so it's not like that bfr thing is her famous way of fighting if that makes sense.
Griffon says they shouldn't fight her, that's not something you say about a demon you can easily one shot with nightmare.
Malphas is known because she is a powerful sorceress of hell. How can you get known with such tittle? Easy, pull some dumb shit with magic and ta dah.
It's like "Malphas can hax these strong dudes with her powers" "Damn she is a powerful sorceress"
You don't need deep knowledge to know her magic can potentially **** all of them up.
Refer to my example above. I can hear X is a heavyweight boxer, just like that I know I will get ****** if I try to fight them.
What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to be all knowing about someone to understand you are out of your league
like you and your girlfriend for example :v
The rest of the Nightmare argument was tackled above.
Argosax and mundus being equal is the reason they split the demon world, which happened 2000+ years prior to the events of dmc2.
Mundus gets sealed for 2000 years, meaning we have no reason to assume he grew in strength, while argosax is left in the demon world for hundreds of years to conquer the rest of it. there's no way argosax is still the same strength after 1000+ years, demons can grow in strength by just existing in the DW, let alone a demon King.
We have no reason to assume that Argosax grew in power either even if left alone in hell.
Unless you can pull some statement saying he was gaining more and more power this is headcanon at best
the idea of mundus being equal to dmc2 argosax is also contradicted by feats, as mister pointed out, the furiataurus (a dmc2 boss) can only be defeated by Dante's inner demon, implying he went devil trigger against this thing, argosax scales above furiataurus while mundus scales below casual vol2 dante who's even weaker than dmc2 dante.
As the DMC timeline in 5 and BtN says it is Argosax who is equal in power to Mundus, specifically DMC2 Argosax with the timeline.
Furitaurus pushing Dante to the limit and Dante needing to use DT is the biggest dumbest thing that never happened. BtN tells us that Dante didn't even remember the demons in that mission besides Oranguerra and VoV tells us it was an easy job and a disappointment.
The game even shows how casually Dante got out of there. This coupled with the scaling chain (DMC2 Dante > Chen > Vol2 Dante > Void Mundus > Mundus = Argosax) is more than enough for us to drop this line that makes absolutely no sense.
Argosax also does better than void mundus against a stronger dante, even when he's on the verge of death he reacts to and blocks a stinger, then dante uses a charged shot to finish him off.
What do you mean does better? He literally got rekt and was being toyed by Dante. Void Mundus tanked an ounslaught from a casual Dante while Argosax got ****** easily by a bored Dante.
void mundus never reacted to and blocked Dante's normal slashes let alone a stinger, and never pushed dante to use a charged shot. that is on top of the fact that dmc2 dante >>>vol2 dante like i said
How are you going to react or dodge to something if you are literally everywhere? The charged shot was Dante showing off, he didn't need to do it but he did it to amuse himself, you can even see him smirk when doing it.
