Ditto Vs. Kars

[Bobsican]

I hope I don't regret this.

Both at peak, speed equalized, Ditto can transform from its memories into any 8-A Pokémon species.

The Transform Pokémo

The Ultimate Lifeform

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

Kar beat this :V

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

Kar beat this :V

Reasons being...?

 

[Bobsican]

Ditto transforms into Spheal and then casts Sheer Cold

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

Ditto transforms into Spheal and then casts Sheer Cold

I think Kars can immune it?

 

[Bobsican]

Doubt he can adapt to an Absolute Zero attack

 

[Chariot190]

I dont think he can either, but he can likely dodge it. Kars best bet here is being leaps and bounds smarter then Ditto, Ditto may have more hax and winconditions but he may not actually make use of the best choices. Ditto aint exactly the smartest thing even if he can take on the powers of things that are indeed smart. Now that begs the question will Kars take him seriously?

 

[Bobsican]

Seeing a purple blob taking the forms of very unknown things with elemental attacks sure is going to make Kars take him seriously.

 

[Chariot190]

Meh, it could go either way, if Ditto haxes Kars first before Kars can realize how deadly he actuaky is then Ditto could win but if Ditto doesnt lead or quickly utilze something hax like Abra or Shuppet then Kars would likely realize the threat (assuming he would take it seriously) and use his hax in turn, given he has hamon and is a master at it, he has several winconditions through that depending on the type of pokemon takes the form of, anything strictly organic (so no ghosts or things like magnemite) would give Kars a way to incap and defeat or absorb through contact but there's somany variables to this, several hundred in fact and Ditto aint exactly smart so it's kinda random. I'm gonna say inconclusive, both can win but the way Kars or Ditto can win orwho would not depends on what it is basically a random chance given Ditto's planning and intelligence being non existant in this context.

 

[Bobsican]

Ditto is smart enought to have human speech, then again, BTW.

 

[Chariot190]

When did Ditto copy a human and replicate human speech? Regardless, Ditto isnt smart enugh or wouldnt plan ahead to try and counter Kars, or wip out the most op hax that it has as a lead, most Dittos that I can recall dont exactly pick the most optimal hard counter to an opponents they never met. Assuming this Ditto is a average ditto (then again the only trained Dittos I can think of are Duplica, Blue's and that one from Detective Pikachu and the zapdos ditto, but none were that smart except Blue's) with a huge catalog to pick from at least.

 

[Bobsican]

IIRC a few times, once even in the middle of a fight as far I remember.

Anyways, yeah, Ditto still isn't smart enought to lead with hax, I also have to bring up that Ditto can also copy Kars while we are at it.

 

[Chariot190]

I cant think of a single time, even quickly checking Bulbapedia, could be wrong of course.

Him copying Kars would just be a losing fight for him, Kars knows himself and the capabilities of the biological world much better than Ditto does plus he's way more skilled, Dittos still have to train what they copy in lore even if they copy the body and powers they dont exactly know how to perfectly utilze it. Ditto may have acces to the abilities Kars has, doesnt mean he would know how to use em properly basically. Especially given I doubt Ditto would know that he can even use Hamon unless Kars makes a show of it first and even then, wouldnt know all the ways to use it (although Kars may as well be immune to the basic properties of it, so goes both ways). Ditto transforming into Kars would be a win condition for Kars, it's just him against a less intelligent, less skilled version of himself that doesnt understand what it's fully capable of. Although the way you word he OP makes it sound like Ditto is limited to only the pokemon he knows of, noted though.

 

[Chariot190]

If you mean turning into a human, it's done it a handful of times but I dont think it's talked.

Blue being the prime example.

 

[Bobsican]

I may remember incorrectly, but thankfully it's not a major factor either way.

Anyways, still going for inconclusive?

 

[Chariot190]

At the moment, I could go through every single 8-A pokemon in existence, figure out which ones Kars could beat and overwhelm or hax and vice versa, do some numbers and figure out an exact percentage and win ratio and decide a who's more likely to win but that's effort so inconclusive.

 

[Bobsican]

The list is quite wide

First, Ditto has plenty of ways to recover health, reduce stats of Kars and even bring status effects with basic moves like Yawn or Toxic.

Then there's how Ditto also has a lot of potential movement options, namely teleportation and flight, and even holding a wide variety of attack options to play physical and ranged around Kars.

What are the best options of Kars here?

 

[NekoMorgana647]

Cant Ditto turn into a Mewtwo or another Pokemon thats planetary then haxstomp Kars? Outside of gameplay mechanics, and I definitely know he can't mimic the OP Pokemon like Arceus (or atleast be as powerful as the real one)

 

[Bobsican]

The OP says that Ditto can't go beyond 8-A in transformations, so Mewtwo is out of the list of options, alongside every legendary and mythical, for that matter.

Ditto per the sake of NLFs can only transform on up to 5-B stuff as that's the tier of Mew, but that's a bit out of the topic of the thread.

 

[Chariot190]

>First, Ditto has plenty of ways to recover health, reduce stats of Kars and even bring status effects with basic moves like Yawn or Toxic.

Being able to recover health doesnt really help against Kars' absorbtion (which thinking back on it, he uses quite a lot, and is actually passive to an extent to organic beings, Joseph had to explicitly train his hamon hard enough to negate it so it wasnt an issue in the following encounterswith the pillar men). And recover hasnt shown being able to heal damage past a certain point (ive seen it heal impalition though so that's good). As for the other two things, kars best win conditions are things that dont rely on physical stats, hamon shutsdown lots of the mostly organic pokemon and Kars himself is capable of healing things like poisons through hamon (and probably through his adaption, while not ******* broke ass like novel kars, he does have access to the biological world, which includes various animals capable of such feats). Kars doesnt need to sleep in ultimate so I dont think yawn would actually effect him given how it works.

>Then there's how Ditto also has a lot of potential movement options, namely teleportation and flight, and even holding a wide variety of attack options to play physical and ranged around Kars.

And the same goes for Kars, flight doesnt really matter, only real movement option Ditto has that is an advantage is teleportation, but that implies he turns into something that can even learn it, which surprisingly, isnt a lot of things. Kars himself also has quite a bit of ranged options, Hamon, surprisingly enough has quite a large range and he has extendendo limbs and blades (the blades also being capable of absortion) and projectiles (although the projectiles arent that good).

>What are the best options of Kars here?

Making physical contact with about 90% of the physically organic based pokemon is a win condition, it'd basically play out like mark vs wham. Hamon is also surprisingly potent, capable of many things like mind control or organ failure or inducing unconscious depending on where the hamon hits a target, if said target doesnt have an innate resistance to it. Both of said options easily take care of a vast amount of 8-A pokemon, but dont on various others. Kars can also like, straight up beat a handful of 8-A pokemon to death like machop. Of course there's some 8-A pokemon that he'd be hard pressed to do anything on, he cant exactly absorb a grimer or a ghost type, some psychic pokemon mind hax is also a issue. It literally just boils down to, what does Ditto use initially and does Kars deem him a threat to the point he takes this seriously? But there's so many variables to this that it's very difficult to actually say anything concrete.

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Bump i guess.

 

[GyroNutz]

There's probably a handful of 8-A Pokemon that beat Kars. And given how many first stage Pokemon there are on this site alone, that's not a good thing.