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No Limits Fallacy
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Discouraging Ridiculous Verses/Pages
- Thread starter Sera_EX
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #122
Dragon, there are possible immunities though. If you have no soul you are immune to soul manipulation, if you have no mind, you're immune to mental manipulation. I don't see how you could be affected. But those are obvious ones. Elemental immunity, immunity to reality warping, etc. is absolutely ridiculous.
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- Thread starter
- #124
Immunity to conventional disease is common. Immunity to some minor diseases is actually something ordinary humans are capable of. As for poison? That would just be resistance I'd say. In some cases poison is an application of elemental manipulation and you cannot be immune to that. "Immunity to fire" for example just wouldn't work. You may be immune to flames that can only reach a certain temperature, or any temperature but what about flames that rot/destroy? Or flames that are colder and hotter than any flame to ever be produced like Izanami from Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni, or something absurd like flames that burn away your soul/the concept of yourself, or burn you from existence? There's so many different pathways of fire manipulation that it is impossible to be immune to all types of fire manipulation unless you're 1-A or above.
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@Sera Yeah, those are the pretty obvious ones. Like unless your character's soul hax can affect souless beings (Don't worry it has happened in fiction multiple times) they are Immune to it.
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Would someone being immune to RW on an level of power scale. Like, can only be affected by RW of an entity 3-A or Higher ?
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@Sera Loveheart
I don't understand your second sentence.
I don't understand your second sentence.
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Thanks for clarifying dear Sera .
I agree with Sera. That is literally like saying : I am immune to reality warping from a 3-A , so logically i am immune to being reality warped by TOAA . The NLF in that is stupid ( Unless you are either High 1-A or 0 being targeted by anything lower . ) .
I agree with Sera. That is literally like saying : I am immune to reality warping from a 3-A , so logically i am immune to being reality warped by TOAA . The NLF in that is stupid ( Unless you are either High 1-A or 0 being targeted by anything lower . ) .
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Hello.
As most people around have probably seen by now, I had a day to spare, more or less. So I decided I should come here, and do a few things, meet a few people, and also say that "Hey, I'm alive!"
...So I'll be honest: I didn't have the time to read the thread aside from Sera as the OP nor did I expect this to still be a problem when I logged in today after I dunno, four months give or take. Therefore, I will disregard the whole discussion and give my honest opinion - this one comes from the heart. After these past few months, this kind of things hasn't been bothering me as much as it did back then, but the point made by Sera, I can agree entirely with it. So I'll let this here before I go.
Part 1 (I also posted this on Cross' blog post)
"As a writer, I became way too concerned with the development of my own characters and verses in the past few months to actually stop and look at entire verses before making an opinion and judgement of them. There are tons of verses out there and way too many histories - or lack of them - for me to go around reviewing other people's stuff as I used to up to 2016.
My one piece of advice (and final word in this matter, as I won't even join the thread regarding this again) is that a writer, at times, should stop thinking entirely about other verses when you're making your own. Like, forget about tiers for a second, forget about lists of abilities, forget there are tons of verses out there - maybe forget even those that serve as your inspiration for a while, then think solely on your verse. Story, characters, how these things should develop.
Where can you go and in what direction the story takes them through its course.
Check your conscience. Check your verse. Spend some time with yourself - Within your world/verse. Side by side with your own characters - think more about them and what you want to show with them, and less about what you have seen in others.
If you can do that every once in a while, you can later absorb and get inspiration on what's better for you. What can improve it - whether it's good already or bad is of relevance, but either way I believe everyone can agree that they want their work to always reach the best they can make. To improve. Hell, I'm practicing non-stop ever since I left and will be back to it tomorrow. Trying to improve and change is hard, but is also very rewarding.
I hope everyone gets - or rather, feels a message like this - when doing their works. And understand that every verse out there has the potential to go far, if true effort is put into that. I wish you all, good luck."
As most people around have probably seen by now, I had a day to spare, more or less. So I decided I should come here, and do a few things, meet a few people, and also say that "Hey, I'm alive!"
...So I'll be honest: I didn't have the time to read the thread aside from Sera as the OP nor did I expect this to still be a problem when I logged in today after I dunno, four months give or take. Therefore, I will disregard the whole discussion and give my honest opinion - this one comes from the heart. After these past few months, this kind of things hasn't been bothering me as much as it did back then, but the point made by Sera, I can agree entirely with it. So I'll let this here before I go.
Part 1 (I also posted this on Cross' blog post)
"As a writer, I became way too concerned with the development of my own characters and verses in the past few months to actually stop and look at entire verses before making an opinion and judgement of them. There are tons of verses out there and way too many histories - or lack of them - for me to go around reviewing other people's stuff as I used to up to 2016.
My one piece of advice (and final word in this matter, as I won't even join the thread regarding this again) is that a writer, at times, should stop thinking entirely about other verses when you're making your own. Like, forget about tiers for a second, forget about lists of abilities, forget there are tons of verses out there - maybe forget even those that serve as your inspiration for a while, then think solely on your verse. Story, characters, how these things should develop.
Where can you go and in what direction the story takes them through its course.
Check your conscience. Check your verse. Spend some time with yourself - Within your world/verse. Side by side with your own characters - think more about them and what you want to show with them, and less about what you have seen in others.
If you can do that every once in a while, you can later absorb and get inspiration on what's better for you. What can improve it - whether it's good already or bad is of relevance, but either way I believe everyone can agree that they want their work to always reach the best they can make. To improve. Hell, I'm practicing non-stop ever since I left and will be back to it tomorrow. Trying to improve and change is hard, but is also very rewarding.
I hope everyone gets - or rather, feels a message like this - when doing their works. And understand that every verse out there has the potential to go far, if true effort is put into that. I wish you all, good luck."
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Part 2
I want anyone who happens to read this as more of a message of incentive from me than anything else. Because frankly speaking, when I came here for the first time, I had hopes - and some of them, I still have - that FC/OC can improve. Evolve, through each and every one of our verses. Is it hard to improve? You bet.
It's as hard as it gets. But I have this opinion - or rather, a belief - that if you create something, the ideal is that, as an author, you should first and foremost respect your own work. And what does it mean to respect your work? That particular thing you spend your time with and attached your name to?
Well, creating OP characters for the sake of it is not respecting your work.
It's the same as letting it stagnate. It's throwing all of the possibilities for your creation in the trash can before truly stopping to consider them. Or even caring enough to notice that they are there. That they may, on the grand scheme of things, matter way more for your verse and readers than simply power. If you do this, you're going in the same direction as something like Suggs - you're attracting to your work the worst kind of reputation it could ever have.
That's not respecting your creation, nor your potential as an author/writer/artist/creator of any kind.
Frankly speaking, as someone who's making every effort and working as hard as possible for the sake of making what I write have some meaning, I don't wish that kind of thing for any author out there. Much less to any of you, who I've seen around here.
Sadly, when we try to get this message across - and on this one thing, I can speak from my experience despite being someone who is still striving to improve much like anyone else - many times the answer we get is something around the lines of:
"You're trying to stop my verse."
"Why are you concerned if it's not even a part of your work?"
"You're just against my ideas/creativity."
Well...
I want anyone who happens to read this as more of a message of incentive from me than anything else. Because frankly speaking, when I came here for the first time, I had hopes - and some of them, I still have - that FC/OC can improve. Evolve, through each and every one of our verses. Is it hard to improve? You bet.
It's as hard as it gets. But I have this opinion - or rather, a belief - that if you create something, the ideal is that, as an author, you should first and foremost respect your own work. And what does it mean to respect your work? That particular thing you spend your time with and attached your name to?
Well, creating OP characters for the sake of it is not respecting your work.
It's the same as letting it stagnate. It's throwing all of the possibilities for your creation in the trash can before truly stopping to consider them. Or even caring enough to notice that they are there. That they may, on the grand scheme of things, matter way more for your verse and readers than simply power. If you do this, you're going in the same direction as something like Suggs - you're attracting to your work the worst kind of reputation it could ever have.
That's not respecting your creation, nor your potential as an author/writer/artist/creator of any kind.
Frankly speaking, as someone who's making every effort and working as hard as possible for the sake of making what I write have some meaning, I don't wish that kind of thing for any author out there. Much less to any of you, who I've seen around here.
Sadly, when we try to get this message across - and on this one thing, I can speak from my experience despite being someone who is still striving to improve much like anyone else - many times the answer we get is something around the lines of:
"You're trying to stop my verse."
"Why are you concerned if it's not even a part of your work?"
"You're just against my ideas/creativity."
Well...
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Part 3 - And Final One
The thing is, we have to take that constructive critiscism or even a more "radical" approach not only towards the work of others. You can bet if an author or someone aspiring to be one tells you something like that, it's because they have, at some point, went through the same thing, and they probably still do.
I don't see myself as a better writer than anyone, nor do I think my word is truth. But I do know - and it's precisely because of this - that I question myself every day. I am sure someone with as much experience as Sera has asked herself these things and honest thought at some point about things like: Where am I going with what I write? Is this for the best? What about my own world? What about what is to come in the series...?
And I use that same approach. Make it over if needed. Make it better, if possible, and if it's not, make it again. Keep going.
Yes, many times the answer we get is something around the lines of:
"You're trying to stop my verse." "Why are you concerned if it's not even a part of your work?" "You're just against my ideas/creativity."
We might get this answer, but when we do say things like that, it's because we can see that there's nothing really being created at all. There's actually something being destroyed, and it's the whole idea of your verse. Its potential to grow.
And that, is sad to see for anyone who is making a verse. At least, I used to feel that way.
However, this kind of changed. Because I want to make that exact improvement, I want to work hard on my own verse and also believe that anyone out there can do it at their own pace, if they truly try. If they really make an effort to look at their verses and characters beyond the tier system.
Beyond powers, abilities and the like. Being true to one's work.
At the core. At the character. At the innervoice of what they create - the soul of their verses. I want to believe in your characters someday and I chose to believe in what your verses can be, if you work on them. That the potential is there and that it is up to you to bring it, just like our own characters do as the story progresses for them. Do not let your characters be less than what they can truly be.
To all of FC/OC, this place that is made of these many worlds of ours, I wish the best. I wish the future. And I wish that your verses can be what they are truly meant to be... Because you can bet I am working to make mine become something to remember.
By the time someone answers this, I'll have left, so...
See you all, someday.
The thing is, we have to take that constructive critiscism or even a more "radical" approach not only towards the work of others. You can bet if an author or someone aspiring to be one tells you something like that, it's because they have, at some point, went through the same thing, and they probably still do.
I don't see myself as a better writer than anyone, nor do I think my word is truth. But I do know - and it's precisely because of this - that I question myself every day. I am sure someone with as much experience as Sera has asked herself these things and honest thought at some point about things like: Where am I going with what I write? Is this for the best? What about my own world? What about what is to come in the series...?
And I use that same approach. Make it over if needed. Make it better, if possible, and if it's not, make it again. Keep going.
Yes, many times the answer we get is something around the lines of:
"You're trying to stop my verse." "Why are you concerned if it's not even a part of your work?" "You're just against my ideas/creativity."
We might get this answer, but when we do say things like that, it's because we can see that there's nothing really being created at all. There's actually something being destroyed, and it's the whole idea of your verse. Its potential to grow.
And that, is sad to see for anyone who is making a verse. At least, I used to feel that way.
However, this kind of changed. Because I want to make that exact improvement, I want to work hard on my own verse and also believe that anyone out there can do it at their own pace, if they truly try. If they really make an effort to look at their verses and characters beyond the tier system.
Beyond powers, abilities and the like. Being true to one's work.
At the core. At the character. At the innervoice of what they create - the soul of their verses. I want to believe in your characters someday and I chose to believe in what your verses can be, if you work on them. That the potential is there and that it is up to you to bring it, just like our own characters do as the story progresses for them. Do not let your characters be less than what they can truly be.
To all of FC/OC, this place that is made of these many worlds of ours, I wish the best. I wish the future. And I wish that your verses can be what they are truly meant to be... Because you can bet I am working to make mine become something to remember.
By the time someone answers this, I'll have left, so...
See you all, someday.
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@Fate Thank you very much for that extensive and heplful input.
And it's nice to see you back, even if for a short while. You taught me some very insightful things about art that I still think about to this day (the whole level 1-9 of drawing lol)
Best of wishes with your future endeavors
And it's nice to see you back, even if for a short while. You taught me some very insightful things about art that I still think about to this day (the whole level 1-9 of drawing lol)
Best of wishes with your future endeavors
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If all you care about is power, you have no business being here. When Ven pitches his idea to people, he says "hey look, it's a grandoise tragedy filled with ghosts, demons, goblins, devils, vampires, etc. All the legedndary folklore creatures.". Not once does he ever mention how powerful it is, or "it so powerful! it has dimensionless entities!" Only a fool cares about power. It's that simple. Grit your teeth and get used to it.
So I ask anyone with an overpowered verse. If you were to pitch your idea to Kodansha, or KOG Studios, or Shueisha, any publisher, what would you tell them? Here's a better one, explain your verse without using power-terms. Leave out anything that has to do with "Mary Sues that become omnipotent", or an infinite number of dimensionless beings, leave out anything to do with hax powers, and broken abilities, or anything of the sort.
If you do that, and have very little to say, that is a damn shame. If you can't do it all, that's an even greater shame. That's all I have to say about this.
So I ask anyone with an overpowered verse. If you were to pitch your idea to Kodansha, or KOG Studios, or Shueisha, any publisher, what would you tell them? Here's a better one, explain your verse without using power-terms. Leave out anything that has to do with "Mary Sues that become omnipotent", or an infinite number of dimensionless beings, leave out anything to do with hax powers, and broken abilities, or anything of the sort.
If you do that, and have very little to say, that is a damn shame. If you can't do it all, that's an even greater shame. That's all I have to say about this.
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I agree 100% with Tsubaki.
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Come back to see a lot of kudos made here. Very nice, Sera~
And though i'm actually doing my own personal thing atm, i too want to say that i agree with what Tsubaki said. At the plot point of what his verse is about, it's basically telling of what's it going to be about, but never any mention of what she pointed out as said above.
I even have the same for mines here (although i still more things to really fix up on it's plotlines and what not), as do others who make an effort to make their verses have quality in it and not just focus on power.
And as Tsubaki pointed out, this is a place that, along with a former admin and long friend of mines who helped started up making this wikia try to be as is, people can work on and post their works into quality stuff. If it's just about power alone (or at least power for the most part and just the other, more important stuff afterwards), there's just really no good words to say to anyone of it. But if it's of something that has power but ALSO something that would be worth being interested in looking at among other things, then good for you cause you got somebody or more people that will want to read your stuff.
There's nothing wrong with going for power, but if it's just that alone then...well Tsubaki already has spoken those words for me and, i guess by extension, everyone else here.
And though i'm actually doing my own personal thing atm, i too want to say that i agree with what Tsubaki said. At the plot point of what his verse is about, it's basically telling of what's it going to be about, but never any mention of what she pointed out as said above.
I even have the same for mines here (although i still more things to really fix up on it's plotlines and what not), as do others who make an effort to make their verses have quality in it and not just focus on power.
And as Tsubaki pointed out, this is a place that, along with a former admin and long friend of mines who helped started up making this wikia try to be as is, people can work on and post their works into quality stuff. If it's just about power alone (or at least power for the most part and just the other, more important stuff afterwards), there's just really no good words to say to anyone of it. But if it's of something that has power but ALSO something that would be worth being interested in looking at among other things, then good for you cause you got somebody or more people that will want to read your stuff.
There's nothing wrong with going for power, but if it's just that alone then...well Tsubaki already has spoken those words for me and, i guess by extension, everyone else here.
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Thanks Baki-imouto. Yeah, I'm more focused on the dark fantasy aspect of my project and it's backstory than power levels. I don't see why anyone would want to make a verse with little to no substance in it. "The story of this verse is grand omniversal royal involving several different fictions, including fanon and other OC verses." That just sounds like a messy fanfic. Wait...that's exactly what that is.
"Rebelión features a group of monstrosities from different folklores disguised as nazi-soviet soldiers who are part of Lucifer's army in the rebellion against Creation." This sounds like it could be grandoise as hell, but is the good kind of over-the-top stuff people like. People love when different mythologies come together or certain video game characters come together.
But no one other than a moron gives a shit about a omniversal battle royal between Cthulhu Mythos, I/O, Masadaverse, Umineko, Marvel, and DC. Remember on VSBW when people used to make "Sai Akuto vs. Kawahara Sakuya vs. Elder God Demonbane vs. Feather Augustus Aurora vs. Yog-Sothoth" threads? That's exactly what these "crossover" composite verses sound like. No one that respects the art of creating a world + vs debating gives a damn about High 1-As and 0s fighting each other. So once again, dear FC/OC community stop making these types of verses and characters. We don't wanna see anymore power fantasies. They are unappealing and are attracting the wrong kind of attention. Just look at the crappy High 1-As and 0s that were made in rapid succession since this began....you only have yourselves to blame. I'm still building my verse, so is Matt, Sera, Baki, Cross, Dragon, Aku, Ultima, etc.
"Rebelión features a group of monstrosities from different folklores disguised as nazi-soviet soldiers who are part of Lucifer's army in the rebellion against Creation." This sounds like it could be grandoise as hell, but is the good kind of over-the-top stuff people like. People love when different mythologies come together or certain video game characters come together.
But no one other than a moron gives a shit about a omniversal battle royal between Cthulhu Mythos, I/O, Masadaverse, Umineko, Marvel, and DC. Remember on VSBW when people used to make "Sai Akuto vs. Kawahara Sakuya vs. Elder God Demonbane vs. Feather Augustus Aurora vs. Yog-Sothoth" threads? That's exactly what these "crossover" composite verses sound like. No one that respects the art of creating a world + vs debating gives a damn about High 1-As and 0s fighting each other. So once again, dear FC/OC community stop making these types of verses and characters. We don't wanna see anymore power fantasies. They are unappealing and are attracting the wrong kind of attention. Just look at the crappy High 1-As and 0s that were made in rapid succession since this began....you only have yourselves to blame. I'm still building my verse, so is Matt, Sera, Baki, Cross, Dragon, Aku, Ultima, etc.
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- Thread starter
- #141
How to make a GREAT character
Step 1. Don't you draw a GODDAMN THING! (At least not yet
)
Step 2. Name your character and give them "backstory". In-depth history full of ethical and psychological complexity? Screw that. Just take a popular name like "Kokoro" and make her be the sister of the One Above All! Because the Omniverse allows it right!? Eeeee!
Step 3. Find someone on Deviantart andsteal borrow their work, because you can't draw (because you're lazy and talentless) for your character. Don't worry everyone else does it! It's not like you're about to make a crappy character and thus insult the art of whoever made it >.>
Step 4. Give your character powers *thunderclap*
Forget "balance" and "sensibility". Why have those? When you can give Kokoro: Omnipotence, Ultipotence, Metapotence, Patapotence, Gawdpotence, Omega Omnisphere Manipulation, Inverse Omnipotence, True Infinity speed, Omniscience (subconsciously), OMFGpotence, Blah blah manipulation, Boundary Transcendence!!!....oh screw it. Let's change her name to JESUS Kokoro the Mary Sue.
Step 5. Post your amazingly epic character on FC/OC Vs Battles Wiki...yeah your chatacter is Tier 0 so you can't put them up against any other characters... but hey! At least you'll be able to impress a LOT of people right?
Now get out there you insane motherf*cker you! x3
[cries and goes into the corner of shame]
I'm done....for real this time.
Step 1. Don't you draw a GODDAMN THING! (At least not yet
)Step 2. Name your character and give them "backstory". In-depth history full of ethical and psychological complexity? Screw that. Just take a popular name like "Kokoro" and make her be the sister of the One Above All! Because the Omniverse allows it right!? Eeeee!
Step 3. Find someone on Deviantart and
Step 4. Give your character powers
*thunderclap*Forget "balance" and "sensibility". Why have those? When you can give Kokoro: Omnipotence, Ultipotence, Metapotence, Patapotence, Gawdpotence, Omega Omnisphere Manipulation, Inverse Omnipotence, True Infinity speed, Omniscience (subconsciously), OMFGpotence, Blah blah manipulation, Boundary Transcendence!!!....oh screw it. Let's change her name to JESUS Kokoro the Mary Sue.
Step 5. Post your amazingly epic character on FC/OC Vs Battles Wiki...yeah your chatacter is Tier 0 so you can't put them up against any other characters... but hey! At least you'll be able to impress a LOT of people right?
Now get out there you insane motherf*cker you! x3
[cries and goes into the corner of shame]
I'm done....for real this time.
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@Sera That just made my day. XD
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How to Make A Joke Battles Wiki character.
1. Make sure you borrow a character from Deviantart WITH the creator's permission.
2. Make Sure to give them a complicated backstory filled with religious and political viewpoints.
3. Make sure you give credict where art is due.
4. Balence out his stats whenever possible, oh, and give the character a seperate part of your backstory for each key you make.
5. Post it on the Joke Battles wiki. With his low tier, you can make sure he will have A LOT of characters to fight.
And volua, you have successfuly made a deep character fulled in a world of jokes.
1. Make sure you borrow a character from Deviantart WITH the creator's permission.
2. Make Sure to give them a complicated backstory filled with religious and political viewpoints.
3. Make sure you give credict where art is due.
4. Balence out his stats whenever possible, oh, and give the character a seperate part of your backstory for each key you make.
5. Post it on the Joke Battles wiki. With his low tier, you can make sure he will have A LOT of characters to fight.
And volua, you have successfuly made a deep character fulled in a world of jokes.
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@Sera aw, I didn't catch that ;c
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I know we've already been over this a while ago, but I got distracted and forgot to post this reply back then. I just have one question regarding personality being a limitation that would disqualify any character from being Tier 0.
The supreme being of my verse is myself, not as a fictional character, but as a real life person writing a story. As such, I fulfill all the requirements to be Tier 0 from an in-fiction point of view, except that I obviously do have a personality.
Do I still qualify as a Tier 0?
The supreme being of my verse is myself, not as a fictional character, but as a real life person writing a story. As such, I fulfill all the requirements to be Tier 0 from an in-fiction point of view, except that I obviously do have a personality.
Do I still qualify as a Tier 0?
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In verse they will be considered Tier 0. However, in vs terms they at the very most will be High 1-A.
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I can't even participate in vs battles since neither me, nor fictional characters can cross the boundary between reality and fiction, but just for curiosity, why the downgrade?
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"I can't even participate in vs battles since neither me, nor fictional characters can cross the boundary between reality and fiction"
?
Anywho. The reason is that a personality is a limitation. A true Tier 0 has no limitation.
?
Anywho. The reason is that a personality is a limitation. A true Tier 0 has no limitation.
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"?"
I'm a real life person and real life people can't fight against fictional characters because we can't step into fiction and they can't step into reality.
"The reason is that a personality is a limitation."
I already know that you consider a personality to be a limitation, but what I want to know is what reasoning did you use to reach that conclusion.
I'm a real life person and real life people can't fight against fictional characters because we can't step into fiction and they can't step into reality.
"The reason is that a personality is a limitation."
I already know that you consider a personality to be a limitation, but what I want to know is what reasoning did you use to reach that conclusion.
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- Thread starter
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I could have Ven explain this but it would literally take a few hours or it would involve massive walls of text. It's like quantum physics, if you don't know it, you don't know it.
Tier 0 is not a character, or some "being", with a personality it's a fictional model based the highest form of philisophical thought. The Writer may appear to have a personality, but it represents something completely unknowable in relation to the cast of characters of that verse. Every tier 0 fits this model. Even some High 1-As do. Omnipotence, even in its illogical form, does not qualify.
The staff of this wiki doesn't seem to be interested in Tier 0s, it's best to consult Ven if you really wanna understand it. I'm not exactly sure about Cross or Dragon but Prom outright stated she isn't. It's part of the reason only 1/4 of our Tier 0s are actually at least decent (not necessarily good). No one understands this simple model DarkLK explained awhile back.
| Because the Ultimate Reality which is denoted by the word 'Absolute' or 'Parabrahman' (Õìì) is the very core of our being as well as the cause and basis of the universe of which we are part, we can no more get away from it than our solar system can get away from the sun round which it resolves and from which it receives everything which keeps it alive and moving. Although the Absolute is sometimes referred to by such epithets as the Void, Ever-Darkness etc. and is beyond intellectual comprehension, still, from the intellectual point of view it is the most profound concept in the whole realm of philosophy. The fact that it is called 'Unknowable' does not mean that it is beyond the range of philosophical or religious thought and something on which thinking is impossible or undesirable. The very fact that it is the heart and the basis of the universe should make it the most intriguing object of enquiry within the realms of the intellect. | ||
~ I.K. Taimni, Man, God and the Universe, Chapter 1 |
The staff of this wiki doesn't seem to be interested in Tier 0s, it's best to consult Ven if you really wanna understand it. I'm not exactly sure about Cross or Dragon but Prom outright stated she isn't. It's part of the reason only 1/4 of our Tier 0s are actually at least decent (not necessarily good). No one understands this simple model DarkLK explained awhile back.
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I don't want to go any deeper than what we've already discussed in private Sera.
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I don't mind Tier 0's as a concept(I mean my verse used to have one) But, I'm not a fan of Tier 0 files...They seem uneccessary to me. A simple mention that they exist is enough imo. But like I said that's just my honest opinion on the matter.
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Not sure I got everything, but if I didn't misunderstand, this explanation already fits the idea I had of a Tier 0. Glad to see that we at least agree on the definition, but I still don't see how having a personality is limitation.
Let's start from the beginning.
In your first reply to my question "Do I, as a real life person writing a story, qualify as a Tier 0 in regards to my work of fiction despite having a personality?", you said:
"In verse they will be considered Tier 0. However, in vs terms they at the very most will be High 1-A."
Then I asked "Why the downgrade?" by which I meant "Why does having a personality not disqualify me as a Tier 0 in regards to my verse, but does in the context of a vs battle?" but you answerd by giving an explanation of a concept I probably had no misconception about without showing how it follows that a personality is a limitation.
I'd hate to misrepresent your argument so correct me if I'm wrong, but it boils down to: Premise 1: Tier 0 characters have no limitations.
Premise 2: A personality is a limitation.
Conclusion: Therefore, Tier 0 characters cannot have personalities.
My answer is simply:
"I reject your second premise until you convince me of its veracity."
Now there are two questions left unanswered:
Let's start from the beginning.
In your first reply to my question "Do I, as a real life person writing a story, qualify as a Tier 0 in regards to my work of fiction despite having a personality?", you said:
"In verse they will be considered Tier 0. However, in vs terms they at the very most will be High 1-A."
Then I asked "Why the downgrade?" by which I meant "Why does having a personality not disqualify me as a Tier 0 in regards to my verse, but does in the context of a vs battle?" but you answerd by giving an explanation of a concept I probably had no misconception about without showing how it follows that a personality is a limitation.
I'd hate to misrepresent your argument so correct me if I'm wrong, but it boils down to: Premise 1: Tier 0 characters have no limitations.
Premise 2: A personality is a limitation.
Conclusion: Therefore, Tier 0 characters cannot have personalities.
My answer is simply:
"I reject your second premise until you convince me of its veracity."
Now there are two questions left unanswered:
- What line of reasoning did you follow to arrive at the conclusion that a personality is a limitation to a potentially Tier 0 character?
- Why am I considered Tier 0 in-verse, but only High 1-A in vs battles?
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I see what you mean. I don't mind a verse having Tier 0, but I can tell most people only create Tier 0 pages to try and be impressive. Some people even try and make 0s better than others, such as the ones on the main wiki. That's always bothered me.
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There is also the main problem of a lot of people having Tier 0's beating other Tier 0's...Like I said Tier 0's are a nice concept, but they make out for extremely boring and redundant files as most Tier 0 files say that exact same thing.....Or are obviously the "Try Hard" files.
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Now don't get me wrong, repititive description for tier is not a problem. However, Tier 0's lack anything unique. It is pretty much the same character copy and pasted an infinite amount of times. Nor difference in personality or abilities. This makes these files my least favorite files. But again my opinion on the matter.
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Repetitive "personalities" among Tier 0s is to be expected when we're not even allowed to give them any. As for the powers, that's to be expected too in the same way that omnipotent characters all have the same powers.
At this point, why does Tier 0 even exist to begin with?
At this point, why does Tier 0 even exist to begin with?
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