Discouraging Ridiculous Verses/Pages

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And that's my point and to why I don't like Tier 0 files.

We have these tiers due to the fact that

A) People are allowed to make them.

B) Our system is the exact same as the main site.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

A character is defined by their personality. Take that away and you're left with nothing but an empty shell. However, Tier 0s are not even supposed to have that shell (a body), leaving... well, nothing but some mysterious force that... exist?
I don't call that a character. Do you?

I think being allowed to give them personalities would solve part of the problem, but the rest is up to users to stop trying to make the most powerful character in fiction just for the sake of being stronger than anyone else.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You can give them personalities. High 1-A is a thing for a reason.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

High Outerverse level (High 1-A): [...] The ones that do qualify would recurrently be equivalent to Tier 0 characters, if not for the presence of [...] some minor limitation.
	~ FC/OC Vs Battles wiki, Tiering System​

I have yet to be convinced that a personality is a limitation.

 

[SITHISIT]

Choosing its personality from time to time could be a thing for a 0

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

They explained it above and to be honest, it doesn't matter whether you are convinced. It is what it is. We consider such things as limitations. Nothing else but what is above needs to be said. If you are not convinced by that then we cannot help you.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

I know that these are the rules and I wouldn't go against them.
I just want to know why that's a rule and describing the concept without addressing how having a personality affects such an entity in a limiting way does not answer the question. Otherwise, the proposition of a personality being a limitation is unjustified and "Because we said so." is not a justification that I would accept. I always accord much more importance to the "Why" and "How?" than to the fact itself.
To paraphrase Matt Dillahunty: "I don't care about what you believe, it's why you believe it that is important."

 

[Sera_EX]

The definition of a personality is:

The combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character.

>Indidivual

>Distinctive

>Character

These words describe "perspective". Tier 0s are beyond all conceptualizations and perspectives. Get it? All conceptualization, that includes personalities.

Furthermore, Ven once explained to me that our personality is one of our greatest strengths and also our greatest hindrance. I will never beat a child because I am against physical abuse in any form. That is part of what defines my character - my personality. However, I also have some personal fears. These fears hinder me. How can a Tier 0 have a personality if a personality identifies a self and individual characteristics that can potentially hinder them? "Why doesn't the Tier 0 do something about evil?" Because a true Tier 0 is not a being with a personality. In its absolute state it is indwelling unknowable "concept", which despite being beyond any comprehension, is the most fundamental principle in reality.

 

[VenomElite]

There's subtle exceptions. Like Kami Tenchi. Kami Tenchi isn't like Azathoth or Umineko's Creator. It's not "part of everybody" it's just unknowable, ineffable, etc.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

"These words describe "perspective". Tier 0s are beyond all conceptualizations and perspectives. All conceptualization, that includes personalities."
That also includes anything that would allow us to conceptualize, create and write anything about them.

Character:
1. the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual; the distinctive nature of something; the quality of being individual, typically in an interesting or unusual way; strength and originality in a person's nature.
2. a person in a novel, play, or movie.
What's the point of having a Tier for entities that don't even fit the description of character on a site for characters?

"I will never beat a child because I am against physical abuse in any form. That is part of what defines my character - my personality."
Principles can be violated anytime you want. You'd have to assume the consequences, but they don't physically keep you from beating a child just like they wouldn't keep a Tier 0 from zapping a character they care for out of existence.

"However, I also have some personal fears. These fears hinder me."
What fear would a Tier 0 even have?

"In its absolute state it is indwelling unknowable "concept", which despite being beyond any comprehension, is the most fundamental principle in reality."
So you're saying that, on this site for people to post characters and verses they created and have them interact with each others (crossovers and vs battles), you have this one tier that is not destined to characters, but rather to some vague, undefinable, formless "concepts" that are the foundation of reality to which are given some characteristics of characters such as a body, a will, which requires a mind, powers, which require a mind, and the ability to fight against each others, which also requires a mind, but then say that it cannot have a personality despite having a mind because it's beyond all concepts even though it seems to abide by the concept of mind?
No wonder most Tier 0s are so alike and decent ones are hard to come by. It's because they are not supposed to be characters, but just that vague, undefined, mindless, fundamental "force" that created everything.

Also, I'd like to point out that even Tier 0s have limitations that applie to not only every single one of them, but also to every single fictional character ever: the boundary separating reality from fiction and the producer's (writer, artist, programmer, etc.) will and by extension the human mind, itself limited by logic and reason.

 

[Sera_EX]

Ugh...

There is no boundary between reality and fiction. At all. What a Tier 0 is meant to be is a model of the absolute God. Something without qualities and a personality is a quality.

Ven, I think it would be best if you explained this...

 

[VenomElite]

Man, I talk about this with others all the time and every so often I come across the same BGO or Suggs logic and these idiots don't know philosphy...they only know what their ego tell them and that's what they believe real.

Personalities (ego), individualism, qualities, self, etc. are considered limitations even in the most basic school of thought. I provided philisophical quotes directly explaining how an Absolute cannot:

A. Be personal (a.k.a personality)

B. Be reduced to just the "Creator" role.

This is why I sometimes I hate VSBW at times, no one listens to anything unless you are those certain elite users and it's like talking to a brick wall -__-

Let's use Ein Sof as an example then.

Ein (completely unknowable god. You can't say anything about Ein because whatever you say is a limitation).

Ein Sof (boundlessness. This is more or less our Tier 0 standard. This is the impersonal God)

Ein Sof Aur (personal god, has a personality, is basically "God after its self manifestation). This God can be identified as a "he" or "she", can have a personality, can be described as having infinite power and infinite wisdom, etc.

But Ein Sof Aur is not fully Tier 0, it's only a manifestation. The full Tier 0 (the Absolute God in it's full reality) is Tier 0.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

"There is no boundary between reality and fiction. At all."
Then how come we can't freely step into fiction and fictional characters can't jump out of our screens/books?

 

[Sera_EX]

Because it's not real. Reality-Fiction interaction is nonsense. That includes the notion that a there is an actual boundary between the two.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

"Because it's not real. Reality-Fiction interaction is nonsense."
I think you misread what I wrote because that's what I was saying.

"That includes the notion that a there is an actual boundary between the two."
The fact that it's impossible for us to enter fiction and for fictional characters to come out of it, which is what I meant by "the boundary separating reality from fiction" is part of our reality.
What, did you think I was talking about an actual physical force that would close the portal by breaking the screen if I tried jumping into a Harry Poter movie?

 

[Sera_EX]

If you acknowledge that than it can't be a limitation for a Tier 0.

 

[AlphaTheHD]

How is that not a limitation? Tier 0s are supposed to be boundless, yet are still bound to fiction and to the writer's will. Just what logic do you follow?

 

[Sera_EX]

There is no boundary whatsoever. Therefore it can't be limited by it.

>Tier 0 is limited to fiction

>There's no literal boundary between reality and fiction (you say you agree to this)

Therefore how can it be a limitation if it's not a limitation that we are bound to reality? There's no actual boundary. They are characters not impacted by reality in any way (even if the author dies, the characters still exist). Most importantly, reality and fiction cannot interact. 4th wall weakness/Reality-Fiction Interaction as a weakness for a Tier 0....really?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

This is still going on....

 

[Sera_EX]

This is still going on....

Tell me about it...

I really don't like talking about this stuff. It's not interesting to me (that's my opinion). I like the concept but when applied to fictional character, it's just annoying..

 

[AlphaTheHD]

This is still going on....

Unfortunately, it is...

"There is no boundary whatsoever."
I reject that statement.

">Tier 0 is limited to fictio
>There's no literal boundary between reality and fiction (you say you agree to this)"
I reject your second premise. I agreed that there is no physical boundary, but there is a literal one in the form of the fact that it's impossible for us to enter fiction and for fictional characters to come out of fiction.
Boundary:
1. a line that marks the limits of an area; a dividing line.
That's the definition you're using. I'm using the other one:
2. a limit of a subject or sphere of activity.
According to the second definition, a boundary doesn't have to be physical to be literal.
Also, try to pick more carefully the word you choose to use between "actual," "literal" and "physical." They don't mean the same thing.

Actual:
1. existing in fact; typically as contrasted with what was intended, expected, or believed.

Literal:
1. taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

Physical:
2. relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete.
or relating to physics or the operation of natural forces generally.

"Therefore how can it be a limitation if it's not a limitation that we are bound to reality?"
Us being bound to reality is irrelevant to the topic of Tier 0s being limited to fiction.

"They are characters not impacted by reality in any way (even if the author dies, the characters still exist)."
If every human beings were magically zapped out of existence all at once along with all records and depictions of said character, does the character still exist?

"Most importantly, reality and fiction cannot interact."
How many times will I have to repeat that we've never disagreed on that to begin with for you to understand that we've never disagreed on that to begin with?

"4th wall weakness/Reality-Fiction Interaction as a weakness for a Tier 0....really?"
I didn't say it was a weakness, I said it was a limitation. A limitation is something that hampers the character's capabilities. A weakness is something the character is particularly vulnerable to. They are not the same thing.

"How about this. Personality is a limitation, simple as that. We could careless if you disagree or not. That is how we treat things and your free to disagree."
How about this: I still disagree because you have yet to provide a reason for me to do otherwise other than "Because we/the main site said so." Simple as that. I couldn't care less that it's a rule, what I care about is WHY it's a rule.
Why is such a simple question so hard for you to answer?

"But guess what, you have to follow the rules here."
But guess what, I already said above that I have no intention of going against the rules nor am I trying to change them. I just want the reasons behind that one specific rule that states that a personality is a weakness that would disqualify any character possessing one from being Tier 0.

"We have our reasons for this and we stand by them."
Very well, then. What. Are. They?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How about this. Personality is a limitation, simple as that. We could careless if you disagree or not. That is how we treat things and your free to disagree. But guess what, you have to follow the rules here. We have our reasons for this and we stand by them. End of story, drop the issue. Heck, if anything bring it to the main site where there are more people who are willing to discuss this with you.