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Dio used his SRS eyes to prevent Jonathan from using all of it.Torlikoff said:
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DIO has his Phantom Blood abilities (Criticism) ... Re-uploaded
- Thread starter SolidEye234
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You don't need us to prove to you why he would have a stand and such. This is your revision, you're supposed to prove us wrong, not us proving ourselves right.
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The only clarity behind Jonathan's resistance and why Jonathan's deceased/resisting body is capable of owning a stand is due to his hamon. Zeppeli also passed all of his hamon into Jonathan in which most of it shouldn't have left if it was used on Wang Chan. Dio used his SRS eyes to prevent Jonathan from using all of it and revived Jonathan's body. I'm well informed that DIO being pierced by the stand arrow would unlock their Stands and the rest of the Joestar bloodlines. Both DIO and Jonathan separately owning their own stands. This led to a certain separation.ProfessorLord said:
That is all.
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It's just that I don't see anyone agreeing or standing by your theory.
You say the only reason for his body being capable of owning a stand is hamon? What, how does that make sense? Ignoring the fact that Araki is notorious for adding plot points or things that don't make sense, like everyone keeping their stand after they kill DIO, but it somehow saving Holly from her sickness.
Anyway, you are still in the minority in terms of support for this revision.
You say the only reason for his body being capable of owning a stand is hamon? What, how does that make sense? Ignoring the fact that Araki is notorious for adding plot points or things that don't make sense, like everyone keeping their stand after they kill DIO, but it somehow saving Holly from her sickness.
Anyway, you are still in the minority in terms of support for this revision.
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It's currently the only theory that's plausible. The mass amount of vitality would make it strenuous for DIO to fully assimulate. Especially if it's the body of a hamon user. Holy's gentle, non-violent soul made her lack the mental strength necessary to control the Stand, slowly making her ill with a harmful high fever and nearly ending her life by the end of Part 3.
Calling Holy's Stand an actual "Stand" is being very generous because it works against its user, barely moves at all, and so far as it is known, has no abilities or powers (other than giving Holy the ability to see other Stands), so it could just be considered a Stand-like infection. Subsequently, this plot-hole does not have any relevance compared to DIO's assimulation which has an in-story explanation of why Vampires would have difficulty taking in a strong amount of hamon.
This specifically kept both DIO and Jonathan separate to the point Jonathan eventually gets his own stand due to the body's high vitality. After being pierced by the arrow.
I'm well-informed that I'm in the minority, but currently that's my theory.
Calling Holy's Stand an actual "Stand" is being very generous because it works against its user, barely moves at all, and so far as it is known, has no abilities or powers (other than giving Holy the ability to see other Stands), so it could just be considered a Stand-like infection. Subsequently, this plot-hole does not have any relevance compared to DIO's assimulation which has an in-story explanation of why Vampires would have difficulty taking in a strong amount of hamon.
This specifically kept both DIO and Jonathan separate to the point Jonathan eventually gets his own stand due to the body's high vitality. After being pierced by the arrow.
I'm well-informed that I'm in the minority, but currently that's my theory.
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To be entirely fair, you shouldn't be able to apply a "theory", even if it is backed up with decent evidence, into a the abilities of a character in a verse. The bottom line is that we do not know exactly why Jonathan's body was rejecting DIO, and while Hamon is a plausible solution to the open-ended question, the bottom line is that we never got a straight answer in the show.
We're an indexing site; we can't apply even well-educated fan theories to profiles as while they operate off of stuff in the show, they ultimately and inevitably introduce new powers, abilities, or facts.
While I initially disagreed with Prof, I am switching sides, although I still agree with Solid on his regen.
We're an indexing site; we can't apply even well-educated fan theories to profiles as while they operate off of stuff in the show, they ultimately and inevitably introduce new powers, abilities, or facts.
While I initially disagreed with Prof, I am switching sides, although I still agree with Solid on his regen.
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Considering you and Solid have been the only ones actually bringing forward information and debating, that's untrue. I have personally flip-floped around on this, so don't count me yet.ProfessorLord said:
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Agreed, speculation should be kept to yourself and we should only document what is explicit.
But you can have your theory @Solid, that's what a lot of what JoJo is about, explaining what Araki doesn't.
But you can have your theory @Solid, that's what a lot of what JoJo is about, explaining what Araki doesn't.
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@Prof.
Although, I can argue that DIO regaining his vaporization freezing technique is quite hypothetical due to it never being demonstrated in Part III and Araki barely mentioning it. Patently, the reason why we're discussing about this to begin with.
Nonetheless, I've done what I've can.
Although, I can argue that DIO regaining his vaporization freezing technique is quite hypothetical due to it never being demonstrated in Part III and Araki barely mentioning it. Patently, the reason why we're discussing about this to begin with.
Nonetheless, I've done what I've can.
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Yeah, I suggest we await more input.
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Like I said, if there was really Hamon, DIO would've thrown the body away. Vampires are extremely sensitive to Hamon. So I would theorize that Jonathan and Joseph's stands are not the same just because they have the same design and ability.SolidEye234 said:
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Read our most recent posts.
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It is hypothetical, but it is a logical conclusion based on what we've heard DIO explicitly say.SolidEye234 said:
He has said it requires full control of his body in the past.
He has also told Vanilla Ice that he would gain full control of his body once he drained the blood of another person.
Since then he drained the blood of Joseph Joestar.
He should now have full control of his body.
He should now be able to use Vaporizing Freeze, regardless of whether or not it would be in-character for him to do so.
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The only debunk to this argument that I've seen is speculation on your part, no logical arguments or something else that he had said to refute this specific point.
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That is based on the contributors to decide, not the direct opposition. Nonetheless, Araki have neither stated that DIO will regain his Vaporization Freezing Technique nor did he implied he'll fully gain control once he drained the blood of another person.ProfessorLord said:
This was disproven when he drained the blood of a random Cashier after Ice.
Prof, this is only based-off of speculation on your part.
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Araki had not stated he lost it, so irrelevant to bring the author in to say "he got it back guys!" when he never said "yeah he dont have it no more"
He was since further damaged, that cashier served to speed up his Regenerationn and thus was likely not used on the wounds in his neck. That's my guess. Maybe you are right, regular DIO should have his vaporizing freeze.
Either way he drained the blood of a Joestar and he said if he did, he would regain control of his body.
He was since further damaged, that cashier served to speed up his Regenerationn and thus was likely not used on the wounds in his neck. That's my guess. Maybe you are right, regular DIO should have his vaporizing freeze.
Either way he drained the blood of a Joestar and he said if he did, he would regain control of his body.
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I'm astonished. Your logic is that if DIO drained the blood of another person then he would regain his Vaporization Freezing technique. Even though he implied "Maybe " he'll regain control in the original scans.
You're also implying that draining the blood of Joseph Joestar seemingly makes him at his peak, yet he remarks that he'll drain the blood of Jotaro if there's any left.
Neither did Araki stated he did. The problem here is that you're saying "Araki had not stated he lost it" therefore he has it. It's simply unfalsifiable on your note.
You're also implying that draining the blood of Joseph Joestar seemingly makes him at his peak, yet he remarks that he'll drain the blood of Jotaro if there's any left.
Neither did Araki stated he did. The problem here is that you're saying "Araki had not stated he lost it" therefore he has it. It's simply unfalsifiable on your note.
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He said "maybe" in regards to a regular person, not the blood of a Joestar which has been established as waaay more compatible with his body.
It should make him at his peak. He said he'd likely regain control once he drained the blood of a normal person, so he drained the blood of Joseph. Then he said this is the strongest that he had ever been. Of course it made him at his peak. That doesn't mean he can't go higher in terms of strength, that's why he suggested draining Jotaro's blood.
Anyway we're going in circles, I'll just wait and see if more people want to support your argument.
It should make him at his peak. He said he'd likely regain control once he drained the blood of a normal person, so he drained the blood of Joseph. Then he said this is the strongest that he had ever been. Of course it made him at his peak. That doesn't mean he can't go higher in terms of strength, that's why he suggested draining Jotaro's blood.
Anyway we're going in circles, I'll just wait and see if more people want to support your argument.
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The only basis to keep your vindication stable are held by speculations and word ambiguities.
The term "maybe" only lies on DIO's uncertainty that he'll regain control if he drained the blood of another person. He drained the blood of a Cashier, then he had his skull crushed.
Indeed, he claimed that the best blood to assimilate would be a Joestar and he implied that he was the strongest he has ever been. The term strongest can also imply that he's vigorous and potent... not his absolute.
We shall wait.
The term "maybe" only lies on DIO's uncertainty that he'll regain control if he drained the blood of another person. He drained the blood of a Cashier, then he had his skull crushed.
Indeed, he claimed that the best blood to assimilate would be a Joestar and he implied that he was the strongest he has ever been. The term strongest can also imply that he's vigorous and potent... not his absolute.
We shall wait.
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Didn't DIO say "This is the greatest high!" or something like that? Because I think that if DIO said that, it could interpreted as being at his peak.
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Interpreted, but not verified as an absolute. I can drink a 5-hour energy drink, but that doesn't mean I'm at my peak potential. I can further develop myself if I really wanted too and surpass some limitations.Standuser081 said:
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He got his old regen back. Meaning he's back to his Part 1 self.
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Dargoo and I agreed that Part 1 Dio's regen is significantly slower than his Part III "Awakened" counterpart.Standuser081 said:
Are you implying that we should scale "Awakened" DIO's regen speed to Part I?
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Regen speed? No. Regen level? Yes.
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Yes, their Regen levels are similar. High-Mid.
Part I Dio requires blood to boost his Regenerationn speed from a near-vertical bisection near the end of the series. (1 , 2 )
Part III (Awakened) can hastily regenerate without the need for blood. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).
Dio, when he has full body control, cannot regenerate as quickly as his counterpart. There are differences to be noted. Nonetheless, I'll not mention my hamon theory as it'll end with a red-herring.
That's the irony.
Part I Dio requires blood to boost his Regenerationn speed from a near-vertical bisection near the end of the series. (1 , 2 )
Part III (Awakened) can hastily regenerate without the need for blood. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).
Dio, when he has full body control, cannot regenerate as quickly as his counterpart. There are differences to be noted. Nonetheless, I'll not mention my hamon theory as it'll end with a red-herring.
That's the irony.
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Also, on your point on DIO draining that cashier's blood, the reason why he didn't get a boost in power was because he used up all the blood to regen from his cut-off leg.
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Then his statement was further falsified when he claimed "he'll regain control if he drained the blood of another person." After he gained "the greatest high" the only line of logic is that "he's back to his Part 1 self", yet he is radically different from his earliest incarnation.Standuser081 said:
That's when it gets inconsistent.
Your argument can also apply when DIO was jabbed by Star Platinum after he got his skull crushed. You could speculate he'd used most of Joseph's blood on his wounds and some of it to boost himself.
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Thing is, when DIO said that drinking another person's blood would give him full control of his body, he didn't know which person. The cashier definetely wasn't the one. But when he drank Joseph's blood to regen, he says "Joestar blood suits me well!", realizing that a Joestar's blood would let him have full control over his body.
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Then you've came full circle with your conclusion since it's only based on hypothetical speculations. You've disregarded the differences between two of the incarnations, which is ironic, as you've claimed his Part I form was his peak, yet Part III has the faster Regenerationn. DIO stated he was feeling stronger, yet it does not equate to being absolute as it can also mean a boost and coincidentally, he died using his left (weaker) half which I find to be paradoxical.
As Dargoo stated, "We're an indexing site; we can't apply even well-educated fan theories to profiles as while they operate off of stuff in the show, they ultimately and inevitably introduce new powers, abilities, or facts."
It's simply unfalsifiable.
As Dargoo stated, "We're an indexing site; we can't apply even well-educated fan theories to profiles as while they operate off of stuff in the show, they ultimately and inevitably introduce new powers, abilities, or facts."
It's simply unfalsifiable.
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> you've claimed his Part I form is his peak, yet Part III has the faster Regenerationn.
Part 1 Dio still had a higher regen level than Part 3 Pre-Awakened Dio.
> DIO stated he was feeling stronger, yet it does not equate to being absolute as it can also mean a boost.
No, DIO said that he was at his "greatest high", the most powerful he's ever been before. It doesn't just equate to strength, it also adds to his other abilities. The World's time stop had been upgraded to 9 seconds.
> Coincidentally, he died using his left (weaker) half which I find to be paradoxical.
That's just speculation that his defeat against Jotaro was because his "weak left half" weakness still remained.
Part 1 Dio still had a higher regen level than Part 3 Pre-Awakened Dio.
> DIO stated he was feeling stronger, yet it does not equate to being absolute as it can also mean a boost.
No, DIO said that he was at his "greatest high", the most powerful he's ever been before. It doesn't just equate to strength, it also adds to his other abilities. The World's time stop had been upgraded to 9 seconds.
> Coincidentally, he died using his left (weaker) half which I find to be paradoxical.
That's just speculation that his defeat against Jotaro was because his "weak left half" weakness still remained.
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>Part 1 Dio still had a higher regen level than Part 3 Pre-Awakened Dio.
Like I said, I'm well-informed that both Part 1 Dio and Part 3 Awakened DIO are High-Mid with their Regenerationn. Nonetheless, the "peak" has his Regenerationn speed surpassed which should be impossible if Part I Dio is the pinnacle of his vampirism judging by your standards.
>No, DIO said that he was at his "greatest high", the most powerful he's ever been before. It doesn't just equate to strength, it also adds to his other abilities. The World's time stop had been upgraded to 9 seconds.
The "greatest high" still remains ambiguous with its definition. Positive evidence of this kind is distinct from a lack of evidence or ignorance of that which should have been found already, had it existed. Are you implying that The World's time stop cannot develop beyond 9 secs?
> That's just speculation that his defeat against Jotaro was because his "weak left half" weakness still remained.
I couldn't agree more that most of these are based on speculations whereas this site can't even except well-educated fan theories. The Ice Manipulation has to go, although the Water manipulation can stay due to DIO's head staying intacted.
Like I said, I'm well-informed that both Part 1 Dio and Part 3 Awakened DIO are High-Mid with their Regenerationn. Nonetheless, the "peak" has his Regenerationn speed surpassed which should be impossible if Part I Dio is the pinnacle of his vampirism judging by your standards.
>No, DIO said that he was at his "greatest high", the most powerful he's ever been before. It doesn't just equate to strength, it also adds to his other abilities. The World's time stop had been upgraded to 9 seconds.
The "greatest high" still remains ambiguous with its definition. Positive evidence of this kind is distinct from a lack of evidence or ignorance of that which should have been found already, had it existed. Are you implying that The World's time stop cannot develop beyond 9 secs?
> That's just speculation that his defeat against Jotaro was because his "weak left half" weakness still remained.
I couldn't agree more that most of these are based on speculations whereas this site can't even except well-educated fan theories. The Ice Manipulation has to go, although the Water manipulation can stay due to DIO's head staying intacted.
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Greatest high means at that point, he could still get "higher" later on.
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^ThisDragonEmperor23 said:
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I mean, it is reasonable to assume Dio could have gotten stronger if he drank Jotaro's blood, but since that never happened, it is pointless to assume.
High Dio is canon Dio's ULTIMATE PRIME.
High Dio is canon Dio's ULTIMATE PRIME.
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HA Dio is not canon.
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To the 'main timeline' at least.
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I do agree with Dragon with what he said, but it doesn't debunk my claim that "greatest high" means he's at his strongest. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that Part 1 isn't his peak, but his "greatest high" statement means that High DIO, who is now at his strongest, should be above Part 1 Dio. And yes, The World's time stop can be can be developed to 9 seconds, but not that fast. Remember, DIO said that it took him months to lengthen his time stop to 5 seconds.
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Im agreeing with you.
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Solid has conflicting statements. On one hand, he says that Part 1 Dio is stronger than High DIO so he can't use freezing. Later then, he says Part 3 Pre-High DIO is stronger than Part 1 Dio because of regen. Which would automatically make High DIO stronger than Part 1 DIO.
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