Digiverse is a total scam.

[FinePoint]

*Digiverse is called a Universe
*Digiverse is shown to possess a time axis
*Digiverse can be accessed without having to digitize yourself as shown with 4 different characters
*Prime Empire can be interacted with without having to digitize yourself
*Prime Empire can affect the real world from within the Game
*Prime Empire is described to be "alive"
*Digiverse is major or recurrent enough to be considered too important to leave out entirely.

Could I get a scan for the second thing, please?

 

[AigerTheKing]

Could I get a scan for the second thing, please?

Stated to be a copy of Ninjago and we see people time travel there (while the Twins were attempting to destroy the timeline).

 

[FinePoint]

Stated to be a copy of Ninjago and we see people time travel there (while the Twins were attempting to destroy the timeline).

Well, it specifies a digital copy, and it's possible for an inferior universe to simulate time by borrowing the axis from the superior universe which hosts it rather than having its own 4D structure.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Well, it specifies a digital copy, and it's possible for an inferior universe to simulate time by borrowing the axis from the superior universe which hosts it rather than having its own 4D structure.

I already replied to that by saying that people from the "normal reality" can access the world without technology, like Overlord, who can also use his real world powers inside and corrupt plenty of real world stuff

 

[FinePoint]

I already replied to that by saying that people from the "normal reality" can access the world without technology, like Overlord, who can also use his real world powers inside and corrupt plenty of real world stuff

Well that's not really proof it's not a digital reality so much as it's proof of NPI or Immersion for those characters.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Well that's not really proof it's not a digital reality so much as it's proof of NPI or Immersion for those characters.

We are trying to prove reality equilization, not that it isn't digital

 

[FinePoint]

We are trying to prove reality equilization, not that it isn't digital

And I don't think what you stated proves they're equal either.

 

[AigerTheKing]

And I don't think what you stated proves they're equal either.

Aren't AIs not considered in lower reality planes?

Additionally, Reality Equalization cannot apply to virtual worlds that exist parallelly to the real world, as those are simply alternate universes, not lower of planes of reality. It also cannot apply to AIs or other electronic entities, as those do not meet the requirements for existing in a lower plane of reality and are instead mere sentient electrical signals.

 

[FinePoint]

Aren't AIs not considered in lower reality planes?

Reality Equalization is just something for SBA for Versus Matches and/or how we frame our point of reference for scaling.

I don't think it's really relevant to this CRT, which is trying to establish if the structure is the same size (Low 2-C) or not.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Reality Equalization is just something for SBA for Versus Matches and/or how we frame our point of reference for scaling.

I don't think it's really relevant to this CRT, which is trying to establish if the structure is the same size (Low 2-C) or not.

Then why is it used as the basis of most of the discussion?

 

[YmTheSuper]

We are trying to prove reality equilization, not that it isn't digital

Actually this argument is used to prove that it's "real" since equalizing reality is just an assumption we do to make it fair for verses that have digital worlds as important settings as far as I can tell.

I can't be bothered to read through the entire thread, but if someone wants to summarize the debate so far to possibly change my mind, they are free to do so.

Here's an argument and you can make up your mind (read the messages it's quoting):

You can't travel into a a place that isn't real by simply traveling through space and time can you? (Further context: they were inside the time vortex which is a temporal rift which allows travel through time and space which is the way The Time Twins, the elemental masters of time, can time travel.)

 

[FinePoint]

Then why is it used as the basis of most of the discussion?

I don't know.

It's basically referring to the fact that we can give a character Low 2-C for destroying all of reality which is a simulation, even though from a literal perspective they're just 11-A relative to the 'real world' which hosts their simulation.

Basically, we assume that whatever universe is focused on in the context of the media is the baseline 'real world' and then scale from that point.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Skimming the debate, I would hesitantly agree that evidence is moderately in favor of regarding the Digiverse as being effectively the same as any other video game. The universe is "inferior" to the real one in which the games take place.

I will state before giving my vote that I don't love VSBW's policies regarding fictional universes inside of other universes. Such as video games within a verse. I don't like that it is precedent to judge a potential rating by how much narrative focus is given to it. This is widely accepted, particularly among the staff, I believe, so I am not seeking to change it. But I do find it mildly irksome. Without the many years of policy and positions from VSBW, I would probably modify, but generally allow a Tier 2 rating for someone inside a game world who can control that game world.

But, with that said, the proponents of the thread are correct in that we do evaluate these things in this certain way.

I am content to remove the Low 2-C rating. We have a history of considering game characters 10-C based on being data, that would suffice here. I would also agree with the other two points of discussion, however I want to clarify that Proposal 3 should keep the abilities for the Digital Overlord himself. That said, regarding this:

Data Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Reality Warping, Spatial Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Law Manipulation & Size Manipulation (Type 2; Has full control over Digiverse. Within the Digiverse, the Digital Overlord has an exact map of New Ninjago City, that he can manipulate at will, changing the way it looks and even its gravity)

Surely Law Manip and Reality Warping are in equal need of trimming if we're condensing parts of this down into just Data Manip. He manipulates no laws, he warps no realities, he is altering data.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Skimming the debate, I would hesitantly agree that evidence is moderately in favor of regarding the Digiverse as being effectively the same as any other video game. The universe is "inferior" to the real one in which the games take place

I am content to remove the Low 2-C rating. We have a history of considering game characters 10-C based on being data, that would suffice here.

I still think "higher beings" portrayed on the same level as the digitized Ninjas is a heavy contradiction

I would also agree with the other two points of discussion, however I want to clarify that Proposal 3 should keep the abilities for the Digital Overlord himself. That said, regarding this:


Surely Law Manip and Reality Warping are in equal need of trimming if we're condensing parts of this down into just Data Manip. He manipulates no laws, he warps no realities, he is altering data.

That doesn't affect the Info Type 2 argument, as its based on PE and not Digiverse

(Capable of resisting the effects of Garmadon's blast attacks, who's blast can erase all life, which would include the Prime Empire NPCs, beings from a virtual game world who can interact with the real world)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(Capable of resisting the effects of Garmadon's blast attacks, who's blast can erase all life, which would include the Prime Empire NPCs, beings from a virtual game world who can interact with the real world)

Your videos are copyright stricken.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Your videos are copyright stricken.

Fixed and the videos being stricken was not my point

(Capable of resisting the effects of Garmadon's blast attacks, who's blast can erase all life, which would include the Prime Empire NPCs, beings from a virtual game world who can interact with the real world)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fixed and the videos being stricken was not my point

No, but they are relevant to my ability to evaluate it.

The crux of this ability is whether we take game-world beings as being literally alive, without any evidence provided they are considered alive by dint of Garmadon's blast, no? These are unrelated clips. It's just another game world with the exact same logic applied.

If you have some other evidence than that provided, I'd love to see it.

 

[AigerTheKing]

No, but they are relevant to my ability to evaluate it.

The crux of this ability is whether we take game-world beings as being literally alive, without any evidence provided they are considered alive by dint of Garmadon's blast, no? These are unrelated clips. It's just another game world with the exact same logic applied.

If you have some other evidence than that provided, I'd love to see it.

We had another CRT which affect the justification as a whole, with the argument being that the Ninjas could interact with a copy of Prime Empire without getting digitized by an Arcade portal

Did yall just forgot Ym's argument

Well, you could be 10-C and still being able to affect "higher being", Mita can digitize the player from inside her game for example, so that would be fine, just something about range ig.

"10-C" yet fights on par with a 4-C buster?

 

[AigerTheKing]

We had another CRT which affect the justification as a whole, with the argument being that the Ninjas could interact with a copy of Prime Empire without getting digitized by an Arcade portal

Did yall just forgot Ym's argument


"10-C" yet fights on par with a 4-C buster?

Idk if it changes much, but Dyer said this:

Past Milton Dyer: Prime Empire is not just a videogame. It's a ticket to another world! A world so immersive, you'll think it's real. Prime Empire isn't just going to change how games are played, it's going to change the world as we— (A white flash occurs and static appears as Dyer goes to investigate it. The screen blackens after.)

 

[AigerTheKing]

My man, you are debating in the wrong CRT.

No I am not. The Info Type 2 argument is not based on Digiverse, like the OP claims, so yeah Im debating on PE

 

[SweetDao]

"10-C" yet fights on par with a 4-C buster?

When they get into reality, they aren't 10-C anymore, tho. They are whatever they scale, hence why they should have "inside virtual world / In real world" keys if needed or notable enough.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

No I am not. The Info Type 2 argument is not based on Digiverse, like the OP claims, so yeah Im debating on PE

My notification said it was from the other thread.

 

[AigerTheKing]

When they get into reality, they aren't 10-C anymore, tho. They are whatever they scale, hence why they should have "inside virtual world / In real world" keys if needed or notable enough.

Im pretty sure he is considered an AI so how would his scale change?

 

[SweetDao]

Im pretty sure he is considered an AI so how would his scale change?

From Data => Real World. Instead of being code, it becomes kinda "living beings" or made up of something else than just code.

 

[AigerTheKing]

From Data => Real World. Instead of being code, it becomes kinda "living beings" or made up of something else than just code.

Then I don't understand this argument:

"Alive" here is clearly referring to the fact it's, somehow, a "conscious being" rather than mere NPC. Two episode before, they explained that a robot or an AI is "equally alive/real".

Again, I don't deny both the robot, the AI or Unagami is "real" (in the sense that they exist in reality) but they exist as a virtual entity.

 

[SweetDao]

Then I don't understand this argument:

"Alive" in that context was clearly referring to "being with emotions/feelings/consciousness". The robot that was in the scene, by virtue of being a robot/AI, should solely be a mere being following lines of codes, and it's true, this is what is explained in the verse, but that still means it has some sort of Ego.

Unagami is similar. It's a being made wholly of data, but it has a consciousness, even if that being is only in the game instead of roaming the Real World.

All the characters here are "real", 100%, but some are virtual beings (10-C) while others are "real beings" (whatever tier you want them to be).

The moment a monster or character from the game world gets into the "real world" they stop simply being code within a video game but instead become "real" or, well, at least not limited to the virtual world anymore, hence why they retain their abilities, power etc.

 

[AigerTheKing]

"Alive" in that context was clearly referring to "being with emotions/feelings/consciousness". The robot that was in the scene, by virtue of being a robot/AI, should solely be a mere being following lines of codes, and it's true, this is what is explained in the verse, but that still means it has some sort of Ego.

Unagami is similar. It's a being made wholly of data, but it has a consciousness, even if that being is only in the game instead of roaming the Real World.

All the characters here are "real", 100%, but some are virtual beings (10-C) while others are "real beings" (whatever tier you want them to be).

The moment a monster or character from the game world gets into the "real world" they stop simply being code within a video game but instead become "real" or, well, at least not limited to the virtual world anymore, hence why they retain their abilities, power etc.

Do we have evidence they aren't code anymore when they reach the Real World? Cuz what you're arguing is basically Info Type 2

 

[SweetDao]

Do we have evidence they aren't code anymore when they reach the Real World? Cuz what you're arguing is basically Info Type 2

It doesn't make it type 2, tho. You argued that yourself "how would the Ninjas be able to attack them?", well, because they became real instead of just being a digital being. The whole plot of one of the episode is them needing a portal to get into the "Real World".

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Welp, since this CRT contains stuff that comes from this CRT, it will be temporarily closed until June 4th. (The IM 2)

I will now request the temporary closure of this.