Differences in fundamental aspects?

[ThienDe01]

1. I am not sure how the different fundamental aspects (such as law, concept, plot, information) govern the "object"?

How does the concept of flame govern fire, to demonstrate that the concept of flame is a fundamental concept?
How does the information of the flame govern the fire, to demonstrate that the concept of fire is a fundamental information?
How does the law of fire govern fire, to demonstrate that the concept of fire is a fundamental law?
How does the fire plot dominate the fire, to demonstrate the concept of fire as a foundational plot?

But then what are the "laws", "plots", "information" that govern the object? If we destroy the "law/plot/information fundamental", will the object that the law governs be destroyed like destroying the fundamental concept.

For example, when we destroy the concept of fire, the fire disappears because you have destroyed its fundamental concept.
So what happens to fire if we destroy one of its other fundamental aspects (such as fundamental law, fundamental information, fundamental plot, etc.)? Will destroying another fundamental aspect cause the fire to disappear like destroying the fundamental concept, or will it have other consequences?

2. What are the ways to elevate each aspect to a fundamental aspect?

 

[YueNoMoral]

1. I am not sure how the different fundamental aspects (such as law, concept, plot, information) influence the "object"?
For example, concept and information are both fundamental aspects as they define + maintain the existence of the "object" they influence.

But then what are the "laws" and "plots" that govern the object? If we destroy the "fundamental law/plot fundamental", will the object that the law governs be destroyed like destroying the fundamental concept and information?

2. What are the ways to elevate each aspect to a fundamental aspect?

You can read this page for that.

Metaphysical Aspects

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ThienDe01]

You can read this page for that.

Metaphysical Aspects

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This page does not talk about how "foundational aspects" govern objects.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

These are , case-by-case, depending on the fiction

Some fiction depicts law as something that governs even concepts
While a concept is something that defines things, even law

Of course, it is also up to the franchise on whether to establish a hierarchy of priority for these fundamental aspects

The reason they do not tackle it is because there are no good general examples, as these other fundamental aspect varies from fiction to fiction

As for destruction. if there is a layer of hierarchy for concepts for another franchise like their Plot exist higher than concept
but their enemy have info type 2 but is decribed very closely to Concept from the other characters's verse. then we can't just handwave the fact that their Plot takes priority thus cannot be overcome by info type 2

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1. I am not sure how the different fundamental aspects (such as law, concept, plot, information) influence the "object"?
For example, concept and information are both fundamental aspects as they define + maintain the existence of the "object" they influence.

Information Manipulation is a fictional term, and therefore will be treated differently across different verses. There's no rule stating that concepts and information have to behave the same. So the difference depends on the verse; there's no 'average/general' view for it.

But then what are the "laws" and "plots" that govern the object? If we destroy the "fundamental law/plot fundamental", will the object that the law governs be destroyed like destroying the fundamental concept and information?

Again, sometimes laws are above concepts, sometimes concepts are above laws, sometimes laws are concepts. It all depends on the verse, and there's no default, which is also why we don't say anything is more fundamental than anything else. There are some verses out there that have concepts that allow you to use plot manipulation.

2. What are the ways to elevate each aspect to a fundamental aspect?

Fundamental aspects are just things people can't exist without. Anything that is fundamentally tied to a person's existence/being can be counted as a fundamental aspect. If mana is treated as the binding force that sustains existence, then it could count as a fundamental aspect.

 

[ThienDe01]

Again, sometimes laws are above concepts, sometimes concepts are above laws, sometimes laws are concepts. It all depends on the verse, and there's no default, which is also why we don't say anything is more fundamental than anything else. There are some verses out there that have concepts that allow you to use plot manipulation.

These are , case-by-case, depending on the fiction

Some fiction depicts law as something that governs even concepts
While a concept is something that defines things, even law

Of course, it is also up to the franchise on whether to establish a hierarchy of priority for these fundamental aspects

The reason they do not tackle it is because there are no good general examples, as these other fundamental aspect varies from fiction to fiction

As for destruction. if there is a layer of hierarchy for concepts for another franchise like their Plot exist higher than concept
but their enemy have info type 2 but is decribed very closely to Concept from the other characters's verse. then we can't just handwave the fact that their Plot takes priority thus cannot be overcome by info type 2

You can read this page for that.

Sorry everyone, yesterday I was a bit drunk so my question wasn't clear, I've edited the question so I hope everyone can help me.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

How does the concept of flame govern fire, to demonstrate that the concept of flame is a fundamental concept?

If the concept of fire changes, then that change should be replicated across of 'fires' that fall under its influence. If the concept of fire makes it so that fire is now a solid, then all fires under that concept should be solid.

How does the information of the flame govern the fire, to demonstrate that the concept of fire is a fundamental information?

If someone changes the informational value of a flame's temperature, then it should reflect in the flame.

How does the law of fire govern fire, to demonstrate that the concept of fire is a fundamental law?

If someone can control the laws of fire, then they can decide what a flame can and cannot do, and most normal flames would fall under their control.

How does the fire plot dominate the fire, to demonstrate the concept of fire as a foundational plot?

If an Author writes that a character burns to death, then they burn to death, even if they are underwater.

As I said, though, all of these are subject ot change depending on the verse.

For example, when we destroy the concept of fire, the fire disappears because you have destroyed its fundamental concept.

Typically, yes.

So what happens to fire if we destroy one of its other fundamental aspects (such as fundamental law, fundamental information, fundamental plot, etc.)? Will destroying another fundamental aspect cause the fire to disappear like destroying the fundamental concept, or will it have other consequences?

Depends on the verse; there's no 100% answer, because it's all fiction.

 

[ThienDe01]

If an Author writes that a character burns to death, then they burn to death, even if they are underwater.

As I said, though, all of these are subject ot change depending on the verse.

A story that creates and maintains the existence of a character (If the story is destroyed, the character disappears, but when the character is destroyed, the story remains) is that story a fundamental plot?

Depends on the verse; there's no 100% answer, because it's all fiction.

If in a verse, destroying the fundamental law causes the opponent to die, then in a battle with a character in another verse, when I destroy the fundamental law of the opponent, will it cause the opponent to be destroyed? Or will it just cause the opponent to lose the ability to fight because the opponent has lost the aspect that determines how the opponent operates?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

A story that creates and maintains the existence of a character (If the story is destroyed, the character disappears, but when the character is destroyed, the story remains) is that story a fundamental plot?

Yes, you can read about that on the Regeneration page.

Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form and it must be shown that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well; in addition it must not be something that would ordinarily be restored by regenerating body, mind, or soul. As such, type 3 concepts must be evaluated with care and aspects which are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgement will not to qualify.

If in a verse, destroying the fundamental law causes the opponent to die, then in a battle with a character in another verse, when I destroy the fundamental law of the opponent, will it cause the opponent to be destroyed? Or will it just cause the opponent to lose the ability to fight because the opponent has lost the aspect that determines how the opponent operates?

We do verse equalization, so if destroying the fundamental law of your enemy kills them in one verse, it'll work the same in versus battles, unless the opponent has Law or Death Resistance.

 

[ThienDe01]

Yes, you can read about that on the Regeneration page.

I read on the "plot manipulation" page that Lore must consider the character to be "fictional" for that Lore to be recognized as plot fundamental. I want to ask if this is mandatory? Can my initial descriptions still prove plot fundamental without Lore considering the character "fictional"?