Devil May Cry: Minor Additions for Demon Physiology

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Limited Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Manipulating the demons' names only affects their physical statistics, not their powers and abilities.)

Awakened Power (Demons who understand the concept of love can display remarkable strength when their emotions for caring for others explode and turn into anger.)

Agree: @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Dalesean027, @Vietthai96
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Yeah this looks good—nice job. I'll dive later on the awakening part in different thread but this works as a stepping stone imo.

 

[Random-Helper323]

In fairness, stat amps are a pretty common thing in DMC, literally happening pretty much passively.

We also know demons resist concept hax because otherwise they'd all lose their powers as soon as they were targeted by another demon's power, but that still needs some more looking into.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

In fairness, stat amps are a pretty common thing in DMC, literally happening pretty much passively.

We also know demons resist concept hax because otherwise they'd all lose their powers as soon as they were targeted by another demon's power, but that still needs some more looking into.

There are nobodies too who don't have a name yet can function easily.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In fairness, stat amps are a pretty common thing in DMC, literally happening pretty much passively.

In fairness, stat amps are a pretty common thing in DMC, literally happening pretty much passively.

Awakened Power is a sub ability of the stat amp (it was an ability that had its own page before) and is specific to Determination/Emotion (like Rage Power).

Dante's stat amp when he uses Devil Trigger is different from the stat amp I describe in the OP for example, so it deserves at least its own mention on the page.

There are nobodies too who don't have a name yet can function easily.

I think this may be a retcon since DMC3 established that nameless demons can't move at all. "Nobodies" may have ended up being their name, which may explain why they can move, or maybe the Nobodies are an outlier because they haven't had names since the beginning.

In any case, I don't think they can be used to support or contradict an argument for how names work in the verse.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In fairness, stat amps are a pretty common thing in DMC, literally happening pretty much passively.

Also Awakened Power concerns all demons in general, who do not have stats amp

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Can you please put type of CM in CRT?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Also Demons should be has Immunity to Empathic Manipulation (Love; It stated that Demons are "lack empathy and the feeling of wanting to protect someone".)

 

[Random-Helper323]

Also Demons should be has Immunity to Empathic Manipulation (Love; It stated that Demons are "lack empathy and the feeling of wanting to protect someone".)

They already resist fear hax, but this sounds more like them just being evil than a specific resistance.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

They already resist fear hax, but this sounds more like them just being evil than a specific resistance.

Resistance≠Immunity. Well there many evils in verse still possess love lol. And anyway it just will Immunity to Love/Empathic Manipulation not fear

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I think this may be a retcon since DMC3 established that nameless demons can't move at all. "Nobodies" may have ended up being their name, which may explain why they can move, or maybe the Nobodies are an outlier because they haven't had names since the beginning.

Nobodies are special case I think? Let's not forget Nameless Demons can still use Demonic Powers to some extent which scales to AP via UES. Nobodies are more separate kind of existence that don't run on the basis of names but moreso the very nature of Demonic Energy by itself.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Limited Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Manipulating the demons' names only affects their physical statistics, not their powers and abilities.)

I'm not too sure about this. The sins are more of an exception for their extraordinary circumstances so it shouldn't be something that scales to other demons.

Someone mentioned the nobodies but they never had a name and iirc it's stated they had to adapt to the extreme environments of the demon world.

Awakened Power (Demons who understand the concept of love can display remarkable strength when their emotions for caring for others explode and turn into anger.)

While this is true, should it really be in the physiology page? It's almost impossible for a demon to achieve this and the only demons to ever get this can be counted with one hand

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Nobodies are special case I think? Let's not forget Nameless Demons can still use Demonic Powers to some extent which scales to AP via UES. Nobodies are more separate kind of existence that don't run on the basis of names but moreso the very nature of Demonic Energy by itself.

Yeah, that's why I said they might be outliers.

While this is true, should it really be in the physiology page? It's almost impossible for a demon to achieve this and the only demons to ever get this can be counted with one hand

It's true but it remains an ability specific to the demons of this verse so it will be weird not to specify it (especially when main characters got amps thanks to that).

The sins are more of an exception for their extraordinary circumstances so it shouldn't be something that scales to other demons.

Arkham doesn't specify that it's unique to Sins, it just talks about demons in general.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Can you please put type of CM in CRT?

Is it type 2 I think? Since this concept manipulation of names is already accepted as type 2 in the physiology page

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

It's true but it remains an ability specific to the demons of this verse so it will be weird not to specify it (especially when main characters got amps thanks to that).

That's a fair point but it feels weird knowing they will never actually get that.

Dante didn't get an amp because of that.

Arkham doesn't specify that it's unique to Sins, it just talks about demons in general.

He doesn't need to, we have the context as readers that their condition is quite special given Sparda used their names as seals for the tower. Their whole situation is quite unique.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That's a fair point but it feels weird knowing they will never actually get that.

For most of them yeah, but it's still an important ability of the verse so it should be mentioned imo.

Dante didn't get an amp because of that.

Sparda and Nero got a permanent amp through this, for Dante it only allowed him to use Devil Sword Sparda at full power in DMC1 which is bs but it still counts.

He doesn't need to, we have the context as readers that their condition is quite special given Sparda used their names as seals for the tower. Their whole situation is quite unique.

It is unique because they had their names removed to seal a tower, but there is nothing to suggest that the side effects via removing a name are unique to sins.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Some lesser irrelevant Demons like Nobodies can still function to an extent soo I believe it's fair to say it spills into Demon Physiology. Afterall, they are adapted species. Sins aren't really adapted to live without names. I'd say it's more of an subjective reality stuff as we seen with Fury who got the speed they desired after few generations and so.

The only thing that's dubious is awakened power. It's a rare case but is still something they have soo that would still go to Demon Physiology but not something really useful in a fight—just a more formality stuff if that makes sense.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The only thing that's dubious is awakened power. It's a rare case but is still something they have soo that would still go to Demon Physiology but not something really useful in a fight—just a more formality stuff if that makes sense.

Non-combat applicable abilities can be accepted tho

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

For most of them yeah, but it's still an important ability of the verse so it should be mentioned imo.

Im iffy on that

Sparda and Nero got a permanent amp through this, for Dante it only allowed him to use Devil Sword Sparda at full power in DMC1 which is bs but it still counts.

We already talked about this in the verse thread, pretty much everyone disagreed with you on Dante and Nero here

It is unique because they had their names removed to seal a tower, but there is nothing to suggest that the side effects via removing a name are unique to sins.

Again, it's a very unique case so I don't think we should use this as the standard. Also, the other cases of Names being altered are Nero who lost his name (and became absolutely useless without his Name), Dante who became Tony and basically a superhuman and Vergil who became Nelo a demon.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

We already talked about this in the verse thread, pretty much everyone disagreed with you on Dante and Nero here

No one said they disagreed with it, you're all getting mixed up. There's no doubt Nero and Dante had that amp, it's clear and plain in the cutscenes.

Again, it's a very unique case so I don't think we should use this as the standard.

Arkham just explains that Sparda had the power to remove names and who did that to the sins which made them immobile. He specified that the "nameless demons" cannot move as they wish, without further details.

Also, the other cases of Names being altered are Nero who lost his name (and became absolutely useless without his Name), Dante who became Tony and basically a superhuman and Vergil who became Nelo a demon.

Wait, when was that for Nero? For the rest, I know, yes, for the Dante case, it proves that the name is linked to physical statistics, since he got an amp when he renamed himself Dante.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I'm still weighing all this since these two powers are present but in situational forms that are still unclear due to the DMC3 manga being unfinished iirc. You also have to consider if Demonic Energy just resists Demonic Energy, like how most of the Beastheads' hax worked on only humans & didn't work on other demons.

Awakened Power seems more a Sparda physiology thing if anything. Off the top of my head, I don't think Trish got notably amped by turning good (the evil DMC2 novel one was stronger) & the DMC2 novel good alt-timeline generals were actually weaker, at least when away from the Underworld. If demons are generally incapable of feeling love then that's a moot point anyway.

Concept/name stuff is going to require an on-page explanation in any case, so we should write up one and have that explanation be the ability proposal.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

No one said they disagreed with it, you're all getting mixed up. There's no doubt Nero and Dante had that amp, it's clear and plain in the cutscenes.

It's just that they didn't get the amp as you think, well Dante did in 3 but that's for another day.

Arkham just explains that Sparda had the power to remove names and who did that to the sins which made them immobile. He specified that the "nameless demons" cannot move as they wish, without further details.

I know, it's just that their situation is an exceptional one. I could maybe bring Void Mundus into this but his situation is very exceptional too.

Wait, when was that for Nero? For the rest, I know, yes, for the Dante case, it proves that the name is linked to physical statistics, since he got an amp when he renamed himself Dante.

In deadly fortune, when the savior absorbs Nero. Nero loses everything... body, mind, soul and even his Name. There is actually a section in which some stray thoughts float while Nero doesn't know who he is, where he is or what is happening and after Dante uses Yamato to separate Nero from the Savior Nero still doesn't have a Name and its only when Dante calls his Name that Nero regenerates back.

Awakened Power seems more a Sparda physiology thing if anything. Off the top of my head, I don't think Trish got notably amped by turning good (the evil DMC2 novel one was stronger) & the DMC2 novel good alt-timeline generals were actually weaker, at least when away from the Underworld. If demons are generally incapable of feeling love then that's a moot point anyway.

Correcting you here:
1) Everyone and their mother is stronger in the parallel world of volume 2, Dante tells the generals that even in their pathetic disguises he can tell they have a ton of power, something he doesn't do with the originals and calls the void stronger than Mundus
2) Trish is stronger than the full/complete savior in DMC4 when in DMC1 she was on the same level as the marionettes.

Concept/name stuff is going to require an on-page explanation in any case, so we should write up one and have that explanation be the ability proposal.

Not necessary.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Whoops, I didn't edit my comment in time after double-checking the novel generals thing. And I think Trish isn't that weak in her earlier keys (she could minorly hurt Dante but then again she was gonna be smushed by a boulder so...). But with the former point & possibly the latter point then Awakened Power would be fine for mid-tiers as well, if virtually impossibly combat applicable (and therefore should be noted as such on the finished page).

A concept/namestuff explanation will absolutely be necessary if you don't want that overextended or used as a fulcrum to cast doubt on things in general, though.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

A concept/namestuff explanation will absolutely be necessary if you don't want that overextended or used as a fulcrum to cast doubt on things in general, though.

I had already done that. It's just I need to make a page on it.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Awakened Power seems more a Sparda physiology thing if anything

Not really since Dante talks about demons in general in one of the scans, notably the human/demons duality.

Off the top of my head, I don't think Trish got notably amped by turning good (the evil DMC2 novel one was stronger) & the DMC2 novel good alt-timeline generals were actually weaker, at least when away from the Underworld. If demons are generally incapable of feeling love then that's a moot point anyway.

Because just having humanity is not enough, as Dante says you need a kind of burst of emotion when you see someone you care about in great danger.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Let me know if and when I should call mods.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Let me know if and when I should call mods.

Just call the mods. It's rather simple and short so it shouldn't be a problem to evaluate.

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Vietthai96 @DarkDragonMedeus @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Dalesean027

Quick evaluation of a tiny thread.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I read the scans but I'm not seeing the part linking names to physical abilities.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I read the scans but I'm not seeing the part linking names to physical abilities.

In the first one it is said that demons are immobile because they are nameless, in the second one Tony Redgrave became stronger and faster after he renamed himself Dante (his real name), and so did his sword.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ah, I suppose it's fine then.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Dalesean027]

This works

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Vietthai96 @DarkDragonMedeus what do you think of this?

 

[Vietthai96]

Look fine i guess

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP seems fine to me.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I read the scans but I'm not seeing the part linking names to physical abilities.

This works

Look fine i guess

I think we can close this thread, it will be applied when the revisions for the demon physiology are finished

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing then