Devil May Cry: General Sparda, Modeus and Baul Upgrade

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

First Key Sparda, Baul and Modeus are all 4-A and FTL, but I suggest upgrading them to 2-C and MFTL+ for the following reasons:

Sparda: (Before awakening to justice and helping the humans against the demons, Sparda was Mundus's right and left hand, and was also one of the very reasons of why Mundus became a Demon King in the first place, implying that he helped him defeat Pluto. Superior to his disciples, Baul and Modeus.)

Modeus: (His skill with a sword was great enough to make the whole Demon World tremble, implying that even demons like Mundus, Abigail, Argosax, and Bolverk feared him. Sparda entrusted his true strength and will to Modeus, implying that he was superior to his brother Baul.)

Baul: (Should be comparable, albeit inferior, to Modeus.)

Note:
Modeus and Baul were Sparda's disciples even before Sparda defeated Mundus and saved the human world, and it was after Sparda decided to leave to live in the human world that Modeus gave up swordsmanship, and Baul waited 2000 years for Sparda to return. Which means that Modeus and Baul were also already 2-C before Sparda's rebellion against Mundus, easily proving 2-C for Sparda as Mundus' general.

It's not inconsistent that a Demon King general is 2-C, since Bolverk already was. It is also not inconsistent that Demon Kings fear the power of demons less powerful than them (General Sparda and his disciples), since Mundus feared the power of Nightmare despite the fact that he was more powerful than him (as already accepted in their pages)

 

[Random-Helper323]

Sparda: (Before awakening to justice and helping the humans against the demons, Sparda was Mundus's right and left hand, and was also one of the very reasons of why Mundus became a Demon King in the first place, implying that he helped him defeat Pluto. Superior to his disciples, Baul and Modeus.)

Mundus slew Pluto after acquiring the Qliphoth fruit. So Sparda could have been key to acquiring the fruit instead of to defeating Pluto.

Modeus: (His skill with a sword was great enough to make the whole Demon World tremble, implying that even demons like Mundus, Abigail, Argosax, and Bolverk feared him. Sparda entrusted his true strength and will to Modeus, implying that he was superior to his brother Baul.)

This is possible, but it's also hard to be sure that the statement about terrifying the demon world also includes those god tiers.

Note:
Modeus and Baul were Sparda's disciples even before Sparda defeated Mundus and saved the human world, and it was after Sparda decided to leave to live in the human world that Modeus gave up swordsmanship, and Baul waited 2000 years for Sparda to return. Which means that Modeus and Baul were also already 2-C before Sparda's rebellion against Mundus, easily proving 2-C for Sparda as Mundus' general.

The current interpretation is that Sparda, Modeus and Baul were all 4-A, Mundus was likely also 4-A (we don't know, just bear with me), and then became 2-C after eating the Qliphoth fruit. Sparda then becoming 2-C to match at some point and leaving the demon world. This is more based on their confirmed power feats at those times.

It's not inconsistent that a Demon King general is 2-C, since Bolverk already was.

This is true, but Bolverk was actually stated to have fought Sparda and caused trouble for him during Sparda's campaign against Argosax.

It is also not inconsistent that Demon Kings fear the power of demons less powerful than them (General Sparda and his disciples), since Mundus feared the power of Nightmare despite the fact that he was more powerful than him (as already accepted in their pages)

Mundus feared Nightmare destroying the demon world, not so much being directly attacked by him, but it's true that he has a history of paranoia and fearing weaker beings.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Mundus slew Pluto after acquiring the Qliphoth fruit. So Sparda could have been key to acquiring the fruit instead of to defeating Pluto.

Fair.

This is possible, but it's also hard to be sure that the statement about terrifying the demon world also includes those god tiers.

Well, the "whole" here seems sufficient to include them.

The current interpretation is that Sparda, Modeus and Baul were all 4-A, Mundus was likely also 4-A (we don't know, just bear with me), and then became 2-C after eating the Qliphoth fruit. Sparda then becoming 2-C to match at some point and leaving the demon world. This is more based on their confirmed power feats at those times.

Yeah I know (although I don't know why they're 4-A to begin with).

This is true, but Bolverk was actually stated to have fought Sparda and caused trouble for him during Sparda's campaign against Argosax.

Yes, but I mentioned Bolverk in case some people find it weird that a Demon who is not a Demon King is 2-C.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Mundus feared Nightmare destroying the demon world, not so much being directly attacked by him, but it's true that he has a history of paranoia and fearing weaker beings.

A bit like Mundus who feared DMC1 Dante when he didn't yet have the full power of Sparda (because it only happened at the end of the game). In the case of General Sparda, Modeus and Baul, the Demon Kings could very well fear them not because they were capable of defeating them, but at the very least because they were capable of seriously injuring them.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well, the "whole" here seems sufficient to include them.

Maybe, it's just tough to be sure.

Yes, but I mentioned Bolverk in case some people find it weird that a Demon who is not a Demon King is 2-C.

It can happen.

A bit like Mundus who feared DMC1 Dante when he didn't yet have the full power of Sparda (because it only happened at the end of the game). In the case of General Sparda, Modeus and Baul, the Demon Kings could very well fear them not because they were capable of defeating them, but at the very least because they were capable of seriously injuring them.

Dante was actually already at that demon king kind of level, but even so Mundus feared Dante's potential growth rather than his existing power. He feared what power he might grow to have more than the power he has at the start.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Mundus slew Pluto after acquiring the Qliphoth fruit.

We don't know that. btw.

I am fine with Sparda and Mundus ( Sealed and Pre-Fruit ), being 2C etc, equal to likes of Bolverk.

Apprentice brothers are definitely above Mid Level Generals like Phantom and Griffon, I wouldn't say they are above DMC1 Dante or Nelo tho, or EoG DMC3 Twins.

 

[Random-Helper323]

We don't know that. btw.

Really? We know he used the Qliphoth fruit to become king of the underworld.

I am fine with Sparda and Mundus ( Sealed and Pre-Fruit ), being 2C etc, equal to likes of Bolverk.

It's not outlandish, I'm just not sure it's well-established enough.

Apprentice brothers are definitely above Mid Level Generals like Phantom and Griffon,

Yes, they definitely are. Griffon and Phantom aren't 2C though. At least not currently.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I wouldn't say they are above DMC1 Dante or Nelo tho, or EoG DMC3 Twins.

If Modeus and Baul are 2-C, they are superior to EoG DMC3 Vergil and Dante (unless they are also 2-C themselves).

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Really? We know he used the Qliphoth fruit to become king of the underworld.

But did he kill Pluto before or after?

It's not outlandish, I'm just not sure it's well-established enough.

Basic Logistics

Yes, they definitely are. Griffon and Phantom aren't 2C though. At least not currently.

Well they should be.

If Modeus and Baul are 2-C, they are superior to EoG DMC3 Vergil and Dante (unless they are also 2-C themselves).

Dante and Vergil are a threat to Sealed Mundus. Baul and Modeus aren't.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Dante and Vergil are a threat to Sealed Mundus.

Yeah, because they are the sons of Sparda and they have greater potential. Doesn't necessarily mean that they (DMC 3 Dante and Vergil) are superior or comparable to 2-C demons.

Baul and Modeus aren't.

The statement about Modeus in my post proves the opposite (Well, rather it proves that they are a physical threat to Mundus, but otherwise they are not threats to him because they don't care about him)

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah, because they are the sons of Sparda and they have greater potential. Doesn't necessarily mean that they (DMC 3 Dante and Vergil) are superior or comparable to others demons who are 2-C.

**** potential, legit event in story. BtN novel says how even injured Vergil gave sealed mundus hard fight and would have won if he was not injured. Nelo Angelo is consistently a threat to Sealed Mundus.

The statement about Modeus in my post proves the opposite.

A blanket statement means nothing, same also exists for Hell Vanguard a fodder demon.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/710583764794867792/739970982009372722/unknown.png?ex=67cebcee&is=67cd6b6e&hm=83bbabe5705390df2dbf74e0cb7288ef6ee6ceb183b89fc64aaf60bc25c5b170&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=990&height=756

2C Hell Vangaurd? Mundus quaking in his boots over this guy now?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

**** potential, legit event in story. BtN novel says how even injured Vergil gave sealed mundus hard fight and would have won if he was not injured. Nelo Angelo is consistently a threat to Sealed Mundus.

How does what you say contradict what I said? Is your point to upgrade Sealed Mundus and DMC 3 EoG Vergil and Dante to 2-C? If so I never contradicted that and I don't see how that prevents Baul and Modeus from being 2-C.

A blanket statement means nothing, same also exists for Hell Vanguard a fodder demon.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/710583764794867792/739970982009372722/unknown.png?ex=67cebcee&is=67cd6b6e&hm=83bbabe5705390df2dbf74e0cb7288ef6ee6ceb183b89fc64aaf60bc25c5b170&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=990&height=756

2C Hell Vangaurd? Mundus quaking in his boots over this guy now?

You're comparing a fodder demon to a disciple of Sparda and whose statement clearly says that the whole Demon World ("whole Demon World" vs "inhabitants of the Demon World") trembled before his skill?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

How does what you say contradict what I said? Is your point to upgrade Sealed Mundus and DMC 3 EoG Vergil and Dante to 2-C? If so I never contradicted that and I don't see how that prevents Baul and Modeus from being 2-C.

I wasn't preventing the apprentices from being 2C, I was just establishing internal scaling in 2C.

You're comparing a fodder demon to a disciple of Sparda and whose statement clearly says that the whole Demon World ("whole Demon World" vs "inhabitants of the Demon World") trembled before his skill?

That's what happens when you take statements super literally without nuance or context.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That's what happens when you take statements super literally without nuance or context.

I took the context into account:

- The statement you presented is about a random demon that absolutely cannot be a danger in combat for a Demon King and a Demon General in any shape or form.

- In the other one, which is a pretty clear statement, we are talking about the best disciple of the best general of a Demon King, and it is not inconsistent that even Demon Kings can be, at the very best, injured by him.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

and it is not inconsistent that even Demon Kings can be, at the very best, injured by him.

or even Demon Kings generals like Bolverk and Nightmare which are also accepted as 2-C.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

- In the other one, which is a pretty clear statement, we are talking about the best disciple of the best general of a Demon King, and it is not inconsistent that even Demon Kings can be, at the very best, injured by him.

or even Demon Kings generals like Bolverk and Nightmare which are also accepted as 2-C.

You need explicit evidence for that, with specificity. Your assertion relies on taking statement super literally, by character who is shrewd and slimey, possibly said the statement as a claim to gas up Modeus in front of Baul to irk him. Even without character dynamic influencing the conversation, that is still a very explicit blanket statement to include God Tiers in it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I don't mind 2C disciples, you just need to give better evidence.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Your assertion relies on taking statement super literally, by character who is shrewd and slimey

The character who made this statement had great knowledge about the history of demons and is even accepted as a reliable source on them on the wiki.

possibly said the statement as a claim to gas up Modeus in front of Baul to irk him.

Which would make no sense to do if the statement he said about Modeus was false, especially to irritate a man who knows him well (because if it was false Baul would know it, he is his twin brother and they trained together).

Even without character dynamic influencing the conversation, that is still a very explicit blanket statement to include God Tiers in it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

But why wouldn't we include 2-C characters in a clear statement? Why wouldn't we take it super literally? And even if we don't include the Demon Kings, why wouldn't it concern other 2-C demons like Bolverk?
At this point it's not up to me to prove that it includes all these 2-C characters, it's up to you to prove otherwise.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Remember that Sid's statement of rivaling Mundus wasn't sufficient evidence until DMC5 told us Abigil and Argosax were equal to Mundus.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

The character who made this statement had great knowledge about the history of demons and is even accepted as a reliable source on them on the wiki.

Never contested that. Read again.

Which would make no sense to do if the statement he said about Modeus was false, especially to irritate a man who knows him well (because if it was false Baul would know it, he is his twin brother and they trained together).

I never said statement was false, I just said it's gassed up in way to anger Baul. Besides you are the one who is interpreting it in way that is lacking in nuance.

But why wouldn't we include 2-C characters in a clear statement? Why wouldn't we take it super literally? And even if we don't include the Demon Kings, why wouldn't it concern other 2-C demons like Bolverk?
At this point it's not up to me to prove that it includes all these 2-C characters, it's up to you to prove otherwise.

Because his statement is a manner of saying things, that happens quite frequently in real life and fiction, without context you cannot make reaching interpretations. Don't mistake my rebuttal as intention to prove statement or character to be false, but rather you as a reader making hard and fast interpretation.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Because his statement is a manner of saying things, that happens quite frequently in real life and fiction, without context you cannot make reaching interpretations.

Have you any examples?

Remember that Sid's statement of rivaling Mundus wasn't sufficient evidence until DMC5 told us Abigil and Argosax were equal to Mundus.

How was that not enough? Sid said that twice and Lady said it too.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Have you any examples?

"Everyone and their mother on this planet hates Nazis!!" or "All democrats hates Trump!!",
Not hyper true, not hyper false, it's just a manner of saying something.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Baul and Modeus is fine being at least 2-C since they made the Demon World tremble anyway

Although since they easely got one shot by Anime Dante while Abigail was able to beat him in base at fist (Who was stated to rival Mundus in power) does make him feared in Demon World not including the Demon King tiers

Sparda is stated also to be on par in power to DMC1 Dante from Phantom and Griffon, so Pre-Rebellion Sparda escaling to 2-C is fine too along with escaling above his aprendices

 

[Random-Helper323]

Have you any examples?

I've heard it said that nuclear weapons can destroy the whole world even though it means nuclear winter, which lots of species have survived in the past. It's even believed that if K-Pg/K-T happened now creatures like sharks and crocodiles would survive it again.

How was that not enough? Sid said that twice and Lady said it too.

We didn't know for sure that rivalling Mundus definitely meant equal power. We also didn't know for sure that Lady and Sid were clued in about Mundus' true power.

It's not that it isn't being suggested, it's that it needs to be conclusive.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

"Everyone and their mother on this planet hates Nazis!!" or "All democrats hates Trump!!",
Not hyper true, not hyper false, it's just a manner of saying something.

I've heard it said that nuclear weapons can destroy the whole world even though it means nuclear winter, which lots of species have survived in the past. It's even believed that if K-Pg/K-T happened now creatures like sharks and crocodiles would survive it again.

I see, but I think that should give them "possibly 2-C", because we can't ignore this statement imo.

Although since they easely got one shot by Anime Dante while Abigail was able to beat him in base at fist (Who was stated to rival Mundus in power) does make him feared in Demon World not including the Demon King tiers

I don't think it makes sense that Abigail was able to beat Dante (even just the first time) when a few years before Dante beat Mundus.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I don't think it makes sense that Abigail was able to beat Dante (even just the first time) when a few years before Dante beat Mundus.

Dante needed to unleash his full sleeping demonic powers according to DMC1 guidebooks e DMC5 timeline recap to defeat Mundus while him for some reason don't have that ability on his own (Sparda DT/Majin/SDT are called Dante's true forms in the lore) complete control unless the adversary push him to that level (Dante does mention that when he is in the brink of death he unleash his full power in BtN novel)

While in the anime Dante needed only his normal DT to beat Sid with Abigail's powers, so i'm guess the writers wanted to show Dante's growth while one year or mouths later in novel 2, base form Dante already surpassed Mundus's tier level demons!

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Dante needed to unleash his full sleeping demonic powers according to DMC1 guidebooks e DMC5 timeline recap to defeat Mundus while him for some reason don't have that ability on his own (Sparda DT/Majin/SDT are called Dante's true forms in the lore) complete control unless the adversary push him to that level (Dante does mention that when he is in the brink of death he unleash his full power in BtN novel)

While in the anime Dante needed only his normal DT to beat Sid with Abigail's powers, so i'm guess the writers wanted to show Dante's growth while one year or mouths later in novel 2, base form Dante already surpassed Mundus's tier level demons!

Dante officially reached the same level as Sparda through anger against Mundus at the end of DMC 1 and gradually increased in level until he was able to defeat Abigail even faster than he had against Mundus a few years earlier.

Dante alternated between his base and demon forms during his fight against Mundus, and Anime Base Dante is logically more powerful than DMC 1 EoG Base Dante, so it doesn't really make sense that Abigail defeated Dante so easily during their first encounter.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I see, but I think that should give them "possibly 2-C", because we can't ignore this statement imo.

You don't need to ignore it, you just need to acknowledge God tiers would be outliers in this case without specificity.

I don't think it makes sense that Abigail was able to beat Dante (even just the first time) when a few years before Dante beat Mundus.

He didn't have Sparda sword. DMC1 is explicit in hammering that Mundus can only be hurt while using it's power.

Dante officially reached the same level as Sparda through anger against Mundus at the end of DMC 1 and gradually increased in level until he was able to defeat Abigail even faster than he had against Mundus a few years earlier.

Dante alternated between his base and demon forms during his fight against Mundus, and Anime Base Dante is logically more powerful than DMC 1 EoG Base Dante, so it doesn't really make sense that Abigail defeated Dante so easily during their first encounter.

He did have an anger boost, but that was more so relying on sword's power and and sword unleashing his inner potential. Same way Yamato works for Nero.

He didn't have that against Abigail, he came back stronger after his first defeat and capped him.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

You don't need to ignore it, you just need to acknowledge God tiers would be outliers in this case without specificity.

If this statement means that Modeus was able to beat tier Demon Kings yes it would be an outlier, but if we are just talking about being able to hurt them or beat 2-C demons that are not Demon Kings no it is not an outlier. A possibly rating is the best thing to do I think.

He didn't have that against Abigail

It shouldn't matter because he had already unlocked Sparda's level since the end of DMC1, I don't think Dante regressed to the level he had at the start of DMC1 after his fight against Mundus.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If this statement means that Modeus was able to beat tier Demon Kings yes it would be an outlier, but if we are just talking about being able to hurt them or beat 2-C demons that are not Demon Kings no it is not an outlier. A possibly rating is the best thing to do I think.

If you can hurt someone, you can kill them.
Demon Kings don't have a static strength level, we have a large scaling chain. You will proof that even lowest among scaling chain can be affected.

It shouldn't matter because he had already unlocked Sparda's level since the end of DMC1, I don't think Dante regressed to the level he had at the start of DMC1 after his fight against Mundus.

Unlocked it with the sword. I never said or implied he regressed. Answer is simple, him beating Mundus was a special event requiring the sword, not something he did on his own. Post DMC1, it's him progressing and surpassing Sparda on his own.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

If you can hurt someone, you can kill them.

But that doesn't mean you can beat them in combat, that's my point.

Unlocked it with the sword. I never said or implied he regressed. Answer is simple, him beating Mundus was a special event requiring the sword, not something he did on his own. Post DMC1, it's him progressing and surpassing Sparda on his own.

Dante getting beaten by Abigail during their first meeting means he has regressed, because he had definitely unlocked Sparda's power against Mundus, it wasn't a temporary amp.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

But that doesn't mean you can beat them in combat, that's my point.

Bro what? What kind of logic is that? Killing someone is beating them in combat.

Dante getting beaten by Abigail during their first meeting means he has regressed, because he had definitely unlocked Sparda's power against Mundus, it wasn't a temporary amp.

Regressing implies he was stronger in the first place, when we know he wasn't. You are overinflating Dante's strength in 1 without DSD. Your scaling chain is different from what is accepted on the wiki.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bro what? What kind of logic is that? Killing someone is beating them in combat.

Being able to physically injure or kill someone does not mean you can beat them in single combat.

Regressing implies he was stronger in the first place, when we know he wasn't. You are overinflating Dante's strength in 1 without DSD.

Dante reached Sparda's level thanks to the sword and anger as explicitly stated in the DMC5 recap. It wasn't a temporary amp via the sword, it was a permanent upgrade and logically Dante had Sparda's level throughout the anime.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Being able to physically injure or kill someone does not mean you can beat them in single combat.

That has nothing to do with AP/Dura at that point, it's either skill, intelligence, hax etc which will give the winner the edge. if you claim X can hurt and kill Y without explicit exception, then it's logical to conclude both X and Y have same AP and Dura.
You are basically suggesting the disciples directly scale to demon kings on equal level.
That's ludicrous.

Dante reached Sparda's level thanks to the sword and anger as explicitly stated in the DMC5 recap. It wasn't a temporary amp via the sword, it was a permanent upgrade and logically Dante had Sparda's level throughout the anime.

Whatever way he reached that level doesn't make it permanent when we have evidence to prove otherwise. Go play those last missions again and try using Alastor or Ifreet against Mundus. Tell what happens.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The Sparda is even shown to still be an amp in DMC5 when it gives him the strength to break free from Urizen's tendrils. It just doesn't make as much difference as it used to since he's surpassed it.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That has nothing to do with AP/Dura at that point, it's either skill, intelligence, hax etc

It could totally have something to do with AP/Dura. Modeus and Baul could totally be able to physically hurt Mundus but ultimately lose to him because he is physically stronger than them. There are other examples like this accepted on the wiki, such as Queen Maeve, Soldier Boy and Butcher who can physically affect Homelander in combat but can't beat him because they are physically weaker.

And again, even if we don't include the Demon Kings, there are still other demons that are 2-C, and I don't see how it would be an outlier that Modeus and Baul are able to beat Bolverk for example.

Whatever way he reached that level doesn't make it permanent when we have evidence to prove otherwise.

The simple fact that EoG DMC 3 Dante wielded Force Edge was enough for him to permanently absorb a portion of Sparda's powers according to the BtN novel iirc, while Force Edge is the sealed form of Sparda's Devil Sword. It would make no sense for Dante not to have permanently gained his father's full powers via the unsealed version of his sword, especially since the recap clearly states that "the true power Dante inherited from his father Sparda was unleashed".

Go play those last missions again and try using Alastor or Ifreet against Mundus. Tell what happens.

Because without his father's sword Dante would not have unlocked his power during his confrontation with Mundus.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

It could totally have something to do with AP/Dura. Modeus and Baul could totally be able to physically hurt Mundus but ultimately lose to him because he is physically stronger than them. There are other examples like this accepted on the wiki, such as Queen Maeve, Soldier Boy and Butcher who can physically affect Homelander in combat but can't beat him because they are physically weaker.

Scaling chains don't work like that in every verse. Every fiction handles power hierarchy differently. Difference between Sealed Mundus and Unsealed Mundus for example is as much as Sparda's Sword or atleast a Qlipoth fruit's worth of power i.e more than infinity, rest of chain is filled with one shots over one shots. You won't even dent someone's aura level of difference, let alone hurt or kill.

And again, even if we don't include the Demon Kings, there are still other demons that are 2-C, and I don't see how it would be an outlier that Modeus and Baul are able to beat Bolverk for example.

That requires proof. Something that is not blanket statement and approaches some level of specificity.

The simple fact that EoG DMC 3 Dante wielded Force Edge was enough for him to permanently absorb a portion of Sparda's powers according to the BtN novel iirc, while Force Edge is the sealed form of Sparda's Devil Sword. It would make no sense for Dante not to have permanently gained his father's full powers via the unsealed version of his sword, especially since the recap clearly states that "the true power Dante inherited from his father Sparda was unleashed".

scans? Last statement doesn't support your arguement whatsoever.

Because without his father's sword Dante would not have unlocked his power during his confrontation with Mundus.

Why don't you try and tell me what happens.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

i.e more than infinity, rest of chain is filled with one shots over one shots. You won't even dent someone's aura level of difference, let alone hurt or kill.

What do you mean? I don't really understand.

That requires proof. Something that is not blanket statement and approaches some level of specificity.

That's why I said above that a "possibly" rating is the best thing to do.

scans?

scan

Last statement doesn't support your arguement whatsoever.

"the true power Dante inherited from his father Sparda was unleashed"

We're not talking about a simple amp by a sword, but the hereditary power that the Devil Sword Sparda unlocked for Dante.

Why don't you try and tell me what happens.

Because we both already know what's going on (the game tells you can't beat Mundus with those weapons) and because I don't have the game anymore.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Also do you have an explanation for why so many characters scale to Beastheads' 4-A feat? (Because even General Sparda, Baul and Modeus scale)

 

[Random-Helper323]

The idea of Sparda having always been demon king level isn't outlandish, it just isn't substantiated. Same with Baul and Modeus.

For the Sparda, there's no question it helped Dante awaken more of his own power, but that doesn't mean that without it he is still that level. The fact that he was unable to fight Mundus right after their fight when he no longer had the Sparda kind of tells us that he didn't immediately reach that level.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

For the Sparda, there's no question it helped Dante awaken more of his own power, but that doesn't mean that without it he is still that level. The fact that he was unable to fight Mundus right after their fight when he no longer had the Sparda kind of tells us that he didn't immediately reach that level.

Dante was unable to defeat Mundus because he was weakened (Mundus: "What is the matter? Here, you're powers are weak. HUMAN!!!), not because he didn't have the Sparda Sword (because Mundus doesn't mention it in the previous quote, he just mentions the place where Dante is as the cause of his weakening). Dante even finally managed to bfr and seal Mundus because he regained strength thanks to Trish and the DT.