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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 7

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Dienomite22 said:
I didn't ask for the feat to be calc'd, I was asking if it CAN be cal'd as in is it possible to calc it.Also the timeless void thing didn't happen.
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Either way,that feat isnt worth to look at or even consider it when it wont even have any impact on the speed

Also i read it in a thread about dmc here that in one of the novels they had dante fight mundus in a void,so how it didnt happen?
 
Which translation should we take when it comes to DMC5? Because apparently the English Dub with Japanese sub and Japaneses dub with English sub are different from each other according to Bingo.Which isn't surprising with how big the line changes can be for example Nero and crewcut interaction in the english dub being "you look like you need a hug but your not getting one from me" and the japanese version of the game with english subs saying something like "you look like you need a hug but sorry i only have one arm". What Bingo says: "The contents of the dialogue are quite different between "English voice Japanese subtitles" and "Japanese dubbing". Please see and compare."
 
For the whole "timeless" thing, this might be some misremembering on your part. The section of the DMC2 novel where Dante and Mundus fight does not explicitly say that the void is timeless, however it does say that the void is Mundus itself, and Mundus is described in that section as "the sole ruler of creation for timeless eternity". So, you could say that the void is timeless, however that doesn't explicitly seem to be what they meant. The quote more or less seems to be indicating that Void Mundus was the creator of everything.
 
So the new scaling chain from DMC V would be

Nero DT = SDT Vergil = SDT Dante > Fruit Urizen > Urizen > Nero (Post one month) > DT Dante > Dante

Not really sure if there's a spot for Dante Base post Qlipoth.
 
I'm honestly extremely doubtful that Nero DT is as strong as SDT Dante or Vergil 1: Nero may have badly hurt Dante with his slap, but this was straight after Dante had just been fighting SDT Vergil and was already obviously exhausted 2: Dante was slapped while in his regular human form, not his devil trigger and certainly not his SDT 3: Dante proceeds to slap Nero straight after the final boss anyway in quite a similar way 4: Him beating SDT Vergil was, again, straight after Vergil was visibly exhausted from his fight with Dante

I'm willing to believe that DT Nero is stronger than Base or DT Dante, but saying that he's equal to SDT Dante because of him slapping Dante really hard while he's in base form and it hurts I find to be ridiculous. And again, he only defeated SDT Vergil after Vergil had just been through a long fight with SDT Dante, his supposed equal. I'm not exactly the authority on this, but I'm pretty sure given what we see that neither of those are fair feats to base him off of.
 
3: Dante proceeds to slap Nero straight after the final boss anyway in quite a similar way

But they were both in base form for this, what does that have to do with DT/SDT scaling?
 
Nero wasn't harmed by Dante's/Vergil's slaps though, he was staggered back and got up fast.

I think it's fair to just put DT Nero as comparable to Sin DT Dante/Vergil.
 
Round and Round we go about people being in denial about Nero strength

Nero DT > SDT Vergil = SDT Dante > Fruit Urizen > Urizen > Nero (Post one month) > DT Dante > Dante

Nero was doing better than Sparda DT Dante before he even got his own DT, why would he be weaker than Dante at his peak lol
 
Nero hurt Urizen because he broke the shield. Dante attacked Urizen not the shield.

Nero is not stronger than Vergil . He was tired because of his fight
 
Dude, Dante couldn't hurt Urizen because he couldn't break through his shield in the first place.

Did we play the same game or are you just this ignorant ?
 
I'll just repeat myself here.

there is no consensus about Nero's power level, so the most logical thing to do is assume that Nero, Dante and Vergil are equals in terms of Power for the following reasons

when Dante fights Vergil was just after he beated Urizen even Vergil says "heal your wounds Dante" and then Dante fights Griffon, Shadow and Nightimare and after that he fights Vergil again in a tough fight then Nero shows up and Dante after so much fight decides let Nero and Vergil fight while he recovers

Vergil on other hand fought on par with Dante and had the strength to fight Nero and even after fight Nero he said that he could still fight, so that fight was interrupted

And in Nero's Defense he did not fight at full power against Vergil as himself said that don't wanted to kill Vergil

So they all never fought a real 1v1 fight in peak condition, so i think safe to assume that they're equal to each other.

We cannot scale Nero above Dante and Vergil just because he knockdown a exhausted base Dante when he was off guard and questionably defeat Vergil, since Vergil said that he could still fight and then proceeded to fight demons alongside Dante, and about Nero stopping both two in SDT that's not mean he's above them, since according to the DMC 4 Novel: Deadly Fortuna, Dante stated that, in terms of brute force, Nero is stronger. So, Nero stopping both Dante and Vergil in their tracks is believable, and Nero having enough speed to land between Dante and Vergil was due to both being exhausted from their fight so is obviously that their speed was heavily decreased due to loss of stamina.

So I think the scaling should be like this

Nero DT = SDT Vergil = SDT Dante
 
Dante and Vergil acknowledge that Nero 'beat them' in one of the possible dialogues in the credits. Vergil specifically questions if Dante was still exhausted from 'Nero beating him' and Dante responds with referring to Nero beating Vergil. Dante also acknowledges that Nero defeated Vergil after the fight between them.

No matter the arguments of 'exhaustion' it is unquestionable that the characters agree that Nero did, in-fact, defeat them in some way, shape or form.
 
Even if you downplay both Dante and Vergil to being at Half of their power, Nero would still smack them hard considering he stopped TWO Sin DT casually and threw them back. Comparing this situation to DMC3 is BS considering Dante back then couldn't even use DT to get rid of Arkham, while here he's spamming Sin DT just fine.

Literally, every argument against Nero is pure head-canon and bias against him because fanboys don't like the fact that the fan-favorite Dante is now in #2 spot.
 
Let's not forget that the ground around the qliphoth's base was blown above the clouds, you can clearly see that the wreckage around the trunk surpasses the troposphere by quite a margin, we also ought to consider that the tree either moved or destroyed all the clouds that were located above it when it grew since there are no clouds in the vicinity, i have some screenshots that might help with the calc of its size
 
also regarding the whole Nero vs Dante and Vergil thing, Dante and Vergil being completely exhausted CANNOT be ignored in the slightest since we know for a fact that Vergil and Dante are severely weakened when they are tired and both Dante and Vergil were literally 1 blow away from being KO'd when Nero met them. That said, Nero is most likely equal to them, there is no actual way of saying that he is superior to them especially since SDT is a thing and Vergil despite being worn out still fought him on a pretty equal level in his base (can we consider him using SDT during the boss fight him canonically using it in the fight or are we just going off of cutscenes? Because in that case he fougt DT Nero in base)
 
Another thing to consider is about Urizen's "planet shaking" feat, the report states that Urizen had the power to "shake the FOUNDATION of the world", the usage of the word "foundation" tells us that he didn't only shake the surface of the planet but he shook the deeper layers and possibly the very core, i have no idea where this places the feat but i personally thing that it places Fruit Urizen at moon level, since he performed this feat completely casually
 
ZERO7772 said:
Even if you downplay both Dante and Vergil to being at Half of their power, Nero would still smack them hard considering he stopped TWO Sin DT casually and threw them back. Comparing this situation to DMC3 is BS considering Dante back then couldn't even use DT to get rid of Arkham, while here he's spamming Sin DT just fine.

Literally, every argument against Nero is pure head-canon and bias against him because fanboys don't like the fact that the fan-favorite Dante is now in #2 spot.
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You know, insulting people of being biased just because they found another logic for Nero defeating Vergil really surprises me, specially coming from you, Zero

Dante isn't the number 1 alone, Vergil is with him, and you don't see anyone here arguing against that

if Arkham got stomped by Vergil but can stomp the twins while they are tired, then we can say that they didn't had even half of their power, but it's not...you know, literal, it's a estimate

100% Vergil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arkham

Arkham >>>>>>>>> Dante and Vergil (they can't land a single hit)

considering he stopped TWO Sin DT casually and threw them back

He stopped two TIRED SDT forms, and they ran out of SDT before being slapped, so... are you being biased here ? Because you're lying

As I told you, Dante and Vergil being merely tired in DMC3 is nonsense. We see them slicing eachother, blood going everywhere. They aren't merely 'tired', they are injured. As for the Arkham statements, he tossed them around, and even if he'd lose to Dante and Vergil while they are in perfect condition, he already proved he is a threat on his own.

When he proved to be a threat by POWER ? When he was stabed by Vergil ? He only fought them because they were tired, it was his plan right from the beggining, after that fight he had the Force Edge, then he was a real threat

And he was saying things like "you are wounded and weak, even I can do this to you", they were slashing each other in that fight aaand in DMC5 you also need to slash Vergil to "win" against him, so this doesn't mean nothing, it happened in both cases

Let's see what Dante and Nero were doing before the fight:

- Nero got stomped from Urizen, then fought Malphas and then was escaping until decided to go after Vergil

- Dante saved Nero from Urizen, fights him in SDT, then fights King Cerberus, then fights Urizen again, then got slapped by Vergil (because he was already tired), Vergil even says that Dante needs to get Strong again to fight him

- Then Nero was running and Dante still fights Griffon, Nightmare and Shadow, and they even stated that Dante had a little trouble in defeating them

Aaaand Finally Dante fights Vergil, his equal

Nero got stomped by Urizen, true, but his other fights weren't against people comparable to him, Dante not only fought King Cerberus and V's summons, he fought Post-Fruit Urizen and Vergil before Nero's arrival, they were all hard battles

Vergil tells Dante heal his wounds and to get strong. You want to bring quotes into this, but ignore the ones that outright throw your argument to the ground. He didn't tell Dante to "Rest, you're tired".

Yeah, "GET STRONG" means what for you ? Nothing ?

As for Before the Nightmare, you do realize when Mundus fought Vergil, Vergil was on his last leg, right? He fought Dante 3 times, 2 of those times had him slashed deeply, or sliced in half during their last fight, using all of his demonic energy to keep himself alive, right?

He fights Dante for the second time a little after the mid game, he fights Arkham and then Dante in sequel.

And this is just to prove that their power varies if the stamina

"Less than half of their actual power" Making up your own head-canon, I see. And, where exactly does it suggest they are less than half power? Quit being ridiculous.

It wasn't literal, and let's stop calling each other ridiculous, because it is...ridiculous

You know, i'm not telling you guys that Nero is a dead weight, but calling him stronger than Dante and Vergil is just too much, since we can't say for sure how dante and vergil were after fighting each other, but in DMC3 we see what happens if they fight while being equal, even fodders like Arkham could stomp them both without any problems, and going by that, we can't say that Nero's feats against them are enough proof to say he's stronger, they weren't done against Full Power Vergil and Full Power Dante

My suggestion is: DT (?) Nero, at the very best, is comparable to Dante and Vergil, aaand this seems to be the best case

See Zero ? Dante on #1 alongside Nero and Vergil, looks biased for you ?

Another thing to consider is about Urizen's "planet shaking" feat, the report states that Urizen had the power to "shake the FOUNDATION of the world", the usage of the word "foundation" tells us that he didn't only shake the surface of the planet but he shook the deeper layers and possibly the very core, i have no idea where this places the feat but i personally thing that it places Fruit Urizen at moon level, since he performed this feat completely casually

It is a Low 6-B to 6-A feat
 
How exactly did you calc that feat being 6-B to 6-A? Shaking the planet can also be moon level if i recall correctly
 
yeah I know about that scale, but it clearly mentions "plates" being moved around, nothing about directly shaking the very foundaments of the planet, its deeper layers
 
@Dante Demon Killah

>You know, insulting people of being biased just because they found another logic for Nero defeating Vergil really surprises me, specially coming from you, Zero

I am not insulting anybody my dude I am only speaking of what I am seeing, if you are feeling insulated because of all the headcanons you spammed that your own issue buddy.

>Dante isn't the number 1 alone, Vergil is with him, and you don't see anyone here arguing against that

In your head, sure.

>if Arkham got stomped by Vergil but can stomp the twins while they are tired, then we can say that they didn't had even half of their power, but it's not...you know, literal, it's a estimate

Except you keep insisting to compare Arkham to Nero when there is no reason to, in DMC3 Dante couldn't use even DT to defeat Arkham, while in DMC5 he can spam Sin DT just fine, so that means his stamina DOES have to do with his ability to transform. Your argument is moot.

>He stopped two TIRED SDT forms, and they ran out of SDT before being slapped, so... are you being biased here?

And I already said even if they were at half of their power Nero would still wipe the floor with them at their peak using simply logic, you have no way of proving that they were at less than 10% of their power aside from spamming your Arkham excuse again

> Because you're lying

Better watch your tongue buddy, I didn't insult you directly so don't be an as$hole over a videogame discussion. If you can't hold your **** over an argument then just get out of here. Next time I will report you.

Your are just repeating the same point and over again and it will not help your cause. Dante and Vergil can fight each other for weeks with barely any breaks in between and they mocked each other for being smacked by Nero.

You either judge by what you see and say Nero is stronger or stick to your own headcanon and say they were at death door "and somehow can still transform to their strongest form"

I am tired of repeating myself here.
 
Also, can we get this downgrade done already? It's annoying, lets just downgrade then and move on so we can find some better feats and finally do some updates to the profiles.

First, some random guy shows up and f*ck up the verse just because the new games come out, and now people are whining about Nero.

Jesus the salt here is real. I am gonna get out of here and never come back for some time.
 
You are the only one here that goes around insulting people that don't share your subjective opinion. I agree, maybe some time off site is for the best, considering you aren't able to keep your emotions in check.
 
Tep, definitely better if you leave or else you're gonna have to pay for my chemo because you are bringing some real toxicity here
 
But i do agree on one thing, let's get it over with this damn downgrade and let's move on to the DMC5 feats because oh boy there are some calcs to make here
 
Like the qliphoth breaking out of the earth and moving the clouds over it, how big the tree is, the tier of the planet shaking feat, speed feats, there is a shit ton of stuff to work on and i am honestly pretty pumped and fired up
 
as i previously said, i might have some useful screenshots in regards to the Qliphoth, i also think that we should calculate some speed feats, like Nero's at the very end of the game and maybe figure out if all the beams in the game are actually SOL
 
You're not going to get a consensus that Nero is stronger than Dante and Vergil. You're just not. Concede that they're comparable and drop it. It's not that big of a deal.
 
ZERO7772 said:
@Dante Demon Killah
>You know, insulting people of being biased just because they found another logic for Nero defeating Vergil really surprises me, specially coming from you, Zero


I am not insulting anybody my dude I am only speaking of what I am seeing, if you are feeling insulated because of all the headcanons you spammed that your own issue buddy.

>Dante isn't the number 1 alone, Vergil is with him, and you don't see anyone here arguing against that


In your head, sure.

>if Arkham got stomped by Vergil but can stomp the twins while they are tired, then we can say that they didn't had even half of their power, but it's not...you know, literal, it's a estimate


Except you keep insisting to compare Arkham to Nero when there is no reason to, in DMC3 Dante couldn't use even DT to defeat Arkham, while in DMC5 he can spam Sin DT just fine, so that means his stamina DOES have to do with his ability to transform. Your argument is moot.

>He stopped two TIRED SDT forms, and they ran out of SDT before being slapped, so... are you being biased here?


And I already said even if they were at half of their power Nero would still wipe the floor with them at their peak using simply logic, you have no way of proving that they were at less than 10% of their power aside from spamming your Arkham excuse again

> Because you're lying


Better watch your tongue buddy, I didn't insult you directly so don't be an as$hole over a videogame discussion. If you can't hold your **** over an argument then just get out of here. Next time I will report you.

Your are just repeating the same point and over again and it will not help your cause. Dante and Vergil can fight each other for weeks with barely any breaks in between and they mocked each other for being smacked by Nero.

You either judge by what you see and say Nero is stronger or stick to your own headcanon and say they were at death door "and somehow can still transform to their strongest form"

I am tired of repeating myself here.
Click to expand...


So now you say that you didn't insult me directly ? You said that anyone who say that Dante > Nero is saying this by biased headcanon

And guess what ? That's me and some other people, so yeah, maybe I report you for this ? But I'll never do such thing

> Can you prove that Dante couldn't use DT for that ? Because in a lot of other moments in the series he could use but didn't pulled his DT for whatever reasons, also, using DT it's not a Stamina-related power, this wasn't stated in anywhere, the DT Gauge it's just a game mechanic since everytime he needs to stay on DT that Gauge keeps infinite, like the first fight against Mundus

> Arkham was in the moment that the series showed us the Stamina-related power that both Dante and Vergil have, so I'll keep quoting him and no one showed me any argument that prove that Dante and Vergil were not tired or something like that, in both 3 and 5

> What logic ? We don't know if they were with 90% or 10% of their power, only that they were tired, and when they are tired they got a huge downgrade to the point that fodders can stomp them, this was in DMC3 plot. That's why I keep posting here, saying that Nero is stronger than the twins when his feats are against weaker versions of them is just wrong

> You said that Nero slapped SDTs, when they actually ran out of that form BEFORE Nero slapped them, Nero only stopped SDTs, he didn't slapped them on that state

And then you proceeded to call me and other people "biased" for defending an idea and even put the guilt on me for that, calling my arguments as headcanon, I'm just...disappointed, honestly.
 
This argument is stupid. Just stop whining over whether or not Nero is superior to Dante and Vergil. I am going to side with Nero being equal to SDT Dante and SDT Vergil and that is the stance that will likely be taken by the wiki due to lack of evidence for Nero conclusively surpassing them but conclusive evidence that he can throw Dante and Vergil, blitz past Dante and Vergil in their SDTs, defeated SDT Vergil, slapped Dante into collapsing on the ground (with this being acknowledged as Nero 'beating' Dante by Vergil in one of the credits lines) and was holding back the entire time to not kill Dante or Vergil.

Seriously, if I see either side arguing like children again I will report everyone involved for wasting valuable posting space on arguments done to death.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Seriously, if I see either side arguing like children again I will report everyone involved for wasting valuable posting space on arguments done to death.
Click to expand...
Yea you can't do that, they are allowed to argue back and forth about this since it's on topic and doesn't violate rules.Now do I want them to keep on talking about it? No but don't threaten to report people for something as little as this.Try to advise them to forgot about it or drop the matter for right now.
 
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