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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 7

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at first both dante and Vergil fought for some time

then they both transform into SDT and charge at each other

then nero stop both them so

if they were weakened would they able to use SDT ?

if no then nero should scale to SDT


if yes then nero could scale to their base form
 
This is my beef with the narrative. How did Nero get these MAD gains? This part is not clearly explained. We can speculate, but that's about it. Dante during this 1 month gap, rested the whole time while getting powered up by the Qlipoth roots. Ultimately, he absorbed both Rebellion and Sparda to gain Sin DT. Vergil also got powered up by the Qlipoth tree, ate the fruit and absorbed Yamato in the process to gain his own Sin DT. Meanwhile Nero, just made a call to Kyrie and then achieves DT on a level on par with Sin DT Dante and Vergil.

I don't mind Nero getting overpowered, but my beef is that the way it's shown is it seems to brush aside Dante and Vergil's efforts and sacrifices, imo. But I guess that's just DMC logic. You want to protect = more human = more powerful

You answered your own question no? Nero got the motivation and certainly more potential
 
This is my beef with the narrative. How did Nero get these MAD gains? This part is not clearly explained. We can speculate, but that's about it. Dante during this 1 month gap, rested the whole time while getting powered up by the Qlipoth roots. Ultimately, he absorbed both Rebellion and Sparda to gain Sin DT. Vergil also got powered up by the Qlipoth tree, ate the fruit and absorbed Yamato in the process to gain his own Sin DT. Meanwhile Nero, just made a call to Kyrie and then achieves DT on a level on par with Sin DT Dante and Vergil.

I don't mind Nero getting overpowered, but my beef is that the way it's shown is it seems to brush aside Dante and Vergil's efforts and sacrifices, imo. But I guess that's just DMC logic. You want to protect = more human = more powerful

Nero had more remember = GG.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
What abilities does he have in SDT? I saw some kind of time slow.
Click to expand...
If you're talking about the attack at 1:13 then yea it kind of does look like he slowed time.
 
I mean, does he got some hax with his attacks in that state?

Since Majin form granted him some energy projection and darkness manip I thought this SDT granted him something else.
 
Been playing around in photo mode to get cool screenshots and discovered that in the fight with Urizen, all of his projectile attacks reach past the illusion barrier and the space (landscape,the house and some trees) past the broken glass seems to be actually real, which explains why the weather changes the red mist are past the barrier and not contained within it, I'll post screenshots,give me time.
 
I was watching a twitch stream yesterday of someone beating DMCV and they had different dialogue in the credits scene with Dante and Vergil. Vergil questions Dante "Are you still weak from fighting Nero?" (Or something like that) and Dante retorts with something along the lines of "Says you, Vergil!".

That can be ignored as just brotherly banter I guess but the fact that they both acknowledge Nero beat Vergil and that one of the possible lines in the credits scene is them talking about Nero beating them up adds more credit to Nero scaling around their level or above.
 
It's really funny how Dante and Vergil are the two strongest beings in the world and then Nero comes out of nowhere and slap both of them to make them stop fighting.
 
Dante

  • Strongest person around after decades of hard work and multiple games then gets one-shot by Urizen
  • Gets fed blood by the Qliphoth tree for an entire month and grows far stronger
  • Unlocks Sin Devil Trigger and defeats Urizen and FP Urizen
  • Matches Vergil who is even stronger than Urizen
Vergil

  • Spends decades of his life seeking more power
  • Spends years in hell and breaks out just to split his demon and human selves and become so powerful that his demon half can one shot DT Dante wielding Sparda
  • Feeds on the Qliphoth tree for months with little to no oppostion
  • Becomes even more powerful after becoming whole again and completely equals SDT Dante
Nero

  • Gets stomped with extreme ease by Urizen
  • A month later he somehow scales above DT Dante wielding Sparda because Nero could break Urizen's shield and slash his hand
  • Nearly dies to Serious Urizen
  • A few hours later he unlocks his DT and can now toss Dante and Vergil around and defeat Vergil in one-on-one combat with statements indicating that he may scale to or above SDT Dante and Vergil
I mean, damn. Nero w/o his arm is stronger than DT Dante and w/o Devil Breaker, but access to DT, can defeat Vergil and Dante. How freaking strong is Nero with DT and Devil Breaker?
 
If Post-DT Nero wasn't OP already,he gets his devil breakers back as well.

Now, imagine Sin DT Nero~
 
In the defense of Nero, Dante stopped him from fighting Vergil because he didn't want him to kill his own father, and this was before he got his DT. So Nero could scale, but I don't think he's stronger than Dante or Vergil.

That's what the next DMC games are probably going to be about.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
"Nothing points a stomp, Vergil even said that he can still fight, the fight is easier because Vergil was not at full power, even the game made this to avoid people saying that Nero stomps"
The fight is easier because Nero is constantly regenerating his DT. Nero can shrug off DT Vergil's stabs with no damage taken.

"Also, you keep talking and talking but the main argument still intact, Dante and Vergil ARE TIRED and by what we see in DMC3, when tired they are FAR, FAAAAR weaker than their peak"

Nero was on death's door from fighting Urizen and was physically shown to be scarred. Dante had time to rest up and Vergil was at peak condition.

This was basically Dante and Vergil tired from fighting eachother and Nero having nearly died just an hour or two beforehand. So I think claiming Nero would be weakened is warranted.

"And if getting slapped while off guard is really a super feat, Nero also got slapped by Dante and Vergil, but that doesn't prove nothing"

Nero with his arms slapped Dante so hard that Dante was visibly in pain. Base Vergil and Base Dante knocked a Base Nero away with Nero not even being damaged, only knocked away.

I'm not going to argue for hours on end over whether or not DT Nero scales above SDT Dante and Vergil but I don't see why he doesn't scale above DT Vergil. Considering Dante and Vergil both acknowledge that Nero beat Vergil and Vergil actively used DT in his fight.

You could argue that maybe Nero was completely regenerated from unlocking his DT and that's the only argument I see for Nero not scaling above DT Vergil. Even then the game mechanics and animations make it clear that Nero was heavily overpowering DT Vergil so claiming that Nero would be akin to or above a peak DT Vergil isn't outlandish.
Click to expand...
Wrong

Dante was tired and Vergil said that he should rest in mission 17, and even after defeating Griffon and other familiars, he was at his peak to fight Vergil

And then got tired after fighting Vergil, just like DMC3 teach us, but apparently you guys skipped DMC3 huh ? No surprise for me

Dante and Vergil could stomp Arkham, but when tired both got stomped at the same time

In other words, being tired make their strength be like half of they can really do, just by that, Nero's feats against them doesn't mean that much

Nero last fight was Malpha, in mission 16, so he had even more time than Dante to rest, the scars in his face are because they were fighting for a long time, Dante at peak also had them, doesn't mean nothing

Do you really like Nero that much ? Lmao

So no, Nero is not stronger than Dante and Vergil
 
Too be fair Nero's buster arm seems to have done more damage to Dante than Dante and Vergil's punch did damage to Nero
 
@Sparda - Dante was knocked down, like Nero, and he spit out blood and passed out and was still reeling until shortly after Nero and Vergil fought.

Nero got hit by both of them and was just fine. He only got sent backwards and got right back up in seconds. He only struggled from shock if anything--not damage.

Vergil claiming he can still fight is most likely factual, but he's very arrogant and prideful. He could still fight, but so could Nero.

@Dante Demon Killah - Actually, you're wrong.

1) Dante and Vergil after their fight in DMC5 had some superficial injuries to be sure, but Vergil was definitely near peak performance when fighting Nero. He was only momentarily staggering immediately after fighting Dante, but had a fair amount of time to catch his breath. So even if he isn't at 100% total peak physical condition, you're reaching to suggest he is "weakened" and suggest Vergil is > Nero.

  • You also ignore that the kick Arkham landed on all 3 characters knocked Vergil unconscious, even if Vergil was weakened. Arkham is not weak.
  • Also, ignoring the fact that Nero jumped in between both of them (implying his superior speed in DT), and overpowering both of their sword swings, forcing them back, and then throwing both D and V away from eachother. He canceled their momentum and attacks from both sides and overpowered them. How are either of them above him from what has been seen?
2) "Dante and Vergil could stomp Arkham" - Oh boy, stomp? Base Arkham is a fair argument since we don't know how strong he is (He outright toyed Mary, but beyond this, we can't say he would be a serious threat to Dante and Vergil, but you can't say they stomp him from lack of information), but he nearly beat Dante once using Force Edge, and it took both Dante and Vergil to defeat him.

  • "Being tired makes their power like half" - Siiiiigh. "Tired", no. And in DMC3, we see them cutting into eachother and wearing themselves down in their second fight just before Arkham/Jester show up and take them out.
3) "Nero had more time to rest than Dante" - Now, here's where you're being ridiculous. Yes, the Malpha fight took place before Dante vs Urizen, but Nero had just fought Urizen and was knocked unconscious and beaten. His fight with Urizen took place about 4 hours before he fought Vergil. Malpha was much later. Dante beat Urizen literally minutes after Nero fought Malpha and caught up. The time of rest between the two is a difference of literal minutes.
 
I think I just found the answer to the Base Dante > Post Fruit Urizen debate.

It's wrong. It should be 'Awakened Dante'.

This Dante has his own profile and was stated to become much stronger than base, since he absorbed both Sparda and Rebellion + power up from Qlipoth roots for a month. We can say that Awakened Dante (or new Base Dante) > Post Fruit Urizen to emphasize that fact. But Old Base Dante > Post Fruit Urizen is wrong. We need to separate the two.

Here's a link of the profile screenshot I made:

https://imgur.com/a/aEQzlX0
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Sparda - Dante was knocked down, like Nero, and he spit out blood and passed out and was still reeling until shortly after Nero and Vergil fought.
Nero got hit by both of them and was just fine. He only got sent backwards and got right back up in seconds. He only struggled from shock if anything--not damage.

Vergil claiming he can still fight is most likely factual, but he's very arrogant and prideful. He could still fight, but so could Nero.

@Dante Demon Killah - Actually, you're wrong.

1) Dante and Vergil after their fight in DMC5 had some superficial injuries to be sure, but Vergil was definitely near peak performance when fighting Nero. He was only momentarily staggering immediately after fighting Dante, but had a fair amount of time to catch his breath. So even if he isn't at 100% total peak physical condition, you're reaching to suggest he is "weakened" and suggest Vergil is > Nero.

  • You also ignore that the kick Arkham landed on all 3 characters knocked Vergil unconscious, even if Vergil was weakened. Arkham is not weak.
  • Also, ignoring the fact that Nero jumped in between both of them (implying his superior speed in DT), and overpowering both of their sword swings, forcing them back, and then throwing both D and V away from eachother. He canceled their momentum and attacks from both sides and overpowered them. How are either of them above him from what has been seen?
2) "Dante and Vergil could stomp Arkham" - Oh boy, stomp? Base Arkham is a fair argument since we don't know how strong he is (He outright toyed Mary, but beyond this, we can't say he would be a serious threat to Dante and Vergil, but you can't say they stomp him from lack of information), but he nearly beat Dante once using Force Edge, and it took both Dante and Vergil to defeat him.

  • "Being tired makes their power like half" - Siiiiigh. "Tired", no. And in DMC3, we see them cutting into eachother and wearing themselves down in their second fight just before Arkham/Jester show up and take them out.
3) "Nero had more time to rest than Dante" - Now, here's where you're being ridiculous. Yes, the Malpha fight took place before Dante vs Urizen, but Nero had just fought Urizen and was knocked unconscious and beaten. His fight with Urizen took place about 4 hours before he fought Vergil. Malpha was much later. Dante beat Urizen literally minutes after Nero fought Malpha and caught up. The time of rest between the two is a difference of literal minutes.
Click to expand...


I am being RIDICULOUS ???????

You said now for yourself that Nero and Dante had almost the same time to rest lmao

But Dante still fights Griffon, Nightmare and Shadow

While Nero was running to the van, now you do the math, only fighting a weakened, tired Vergil after Dante


Arkham, as Jester, said with his own words:

- "You could reduce me to confetti in tip-top condition"

And when he (literally) stomp Dante's face, he says:

- "You are wounded and weak, even I can do this to you"

If Vergil/Dante, at peak and individually, can stomp Arkham, and while weakened they got a stomp TOGETHER (and Lady), we can say that they were woth less than half of their strength by simple math

Also, they were equal in both cases and the fight wasn't finished in both cases

You really think that I AM talking about Blob Arkham ? *sigh*...


In case you didn't played against Vergil in DMC5, which apparently is the case, we stab him multiple times and he also stabs Dante saying things like "Just like old times", and oh, just like DMC3

And this isn't the only example of this in DMC3, just read Before the Nightmare, Mundus stated that him, while incomplete, couldn't defeat a Peak DMC3 Dante/Vergil, but he was waiting for the loser of their fight just to fight him while tired and without any chances of victory, in this case, it was Vergil

But no, you guys actually believes that some wounds in the face are relevant, the ENTIRE PLOT OF DEVIL MAY CRY 3 isn't, but the wounds...ohhhhhhhh the wounds. Dante is with wounds in his face after Urizen for the entire game and so is Nero

So why don't you, next time, stop calling people ridiculous ? I recommend

They were with less than half of their actual power, so why you guys keep thinking that Nero is stronger if his feats are against weaker versions of Dante and Vergil ? I don't understand man, DMC verse here is already lost
 
Not to mention this is blatantly ignoring that in the game itself, Vergil literally tells Dante that he is tired and that if he doesn't rest he would get stomped. Even more adding the fact that tired = very weak.
 
If that the case then FP Dante stomps Vergil lol. I really don't see any exuse for Vergil jobbing for Nero easily.
 
I wouldn't call you such if you weren't behaving in such a manner @Dante Devil Killah

You imply Shadow, Nightmare, and Griffon to be any threat to Dante? He says they have no chance of winning, and he promptly stomps them (And you want to bring up the Arkham quotes?).

As I told you, Dante and Vergil being merely tired in DMC3 is nonsense. We see them slicing eachother, blood going everywhere. They aren't merely 'tired', they are injured. As for the Arkham statements, he tossed them around, and even if he'd lose to Dante and Vergil while they are in perfect condition, he already proved he is a threat on his own.

Again, implying gameplay mechanics affects canon when you can avoid such dialogue and events all together. Vergil stabbing Dante in DMC5 only happens if you fail to dodge. That's like saying losing and clicking the continue button has any importance to the plot.

Vergil tells Dante heal his wounds and to get strong. You want to bring quotes into this, but ignore the ones that outright throw your argument to the ground. He didn't tell Dante to "Rest, you're tired".

As for Before the Nightmare, you do realize when Mundus fought Vergil, Vergil was on his last leg, right? He fought Dante 3 times, 2 of those times had him slashed deeply, or sliced in half during their last fight, using all of his demonic energy to keep himself alive, right?


Also, you ignore Nero having fought Urizen just before 12pm and he was injured and knocked unconscious--clearly making him worse off than Dante after having fought Urizen later on, and fought Malphas at around 1:13pm and ending at 2pm (when Dante starts fighting Urizen for the final time, which ends 3:06pm). Only about an hour difference between them fighting. Nero being "perfect condition" is a reach.

  • If Nero somehow got all better between Noon and 1:13pm, then Dante definitely got better between 3:06pm and 4:04pm, when he finally fought Vergil.
"Less than half of their actual power" Making up your own head-canon, I see. And, where exactly does it suggest they are less than half power? Quit being ridiculous.
 
Also, let's ignore the fact that Nero was not fighting with the intention to kill.

And let's ignore the fact that both Dante and Vergil were surprised and impressed with his new found power, and that, you know, Vergil lost in the end, and even admits to it. Also ignore that Dante got KO'd by a simple slap, even if he was already injured. Not like Nero put all of his energy into that hit.
 
Also ignoring that Dante was nearly dead from fighting Vergil and was in base and was caught completely off guard.
 
"Nearly dead"... According to what? He stood up and was walking to Nero. That's a ridiculous argument. I highly doubt he'd be near-death and able to keep fighting Vergil, let alone go into SDT. Again, fan-canon.

Also ignoring that Nero stops both Dante and Vergil from attacking eachother and overpowers them. Hmmmmmmmmm~
 
Ignoring that they were fighting each other and were tired and wheezing and clearly had injuries all over their bodies.
 
And Dante vs Vergil started 4:04pm and ended just after 4:27pm. About 23 minutes.

Meanwhile they can keep up long-term engagements against themselves and other demons in the demon world for over a week and keep it up with minimal rest in between.
 
@Dark - I know that SDT Dante has a form of gravity manipulation, and possibly time-manipulation.

V has summoning and limited-flight (with Griffon), but i don't know what else he'd have specifically. Energy manipulation (Nightmare), Shapeshifting (Shadow), Electricity Manipulation (Griffon), possible weather manipulation for Griffon (he summoned bolts of lightning from the sky when attacking Dante), and V probably has some sort of weapon proficiency with his cane, but I am unsure if we should include that.

Urizen has Time manipulation, fire/magma manipulation, explosions, energy manipulation, life manipulation, and some form of body control. Also Regenerationn, but has only displayed Mid-Low levels in the game--should possibly scale to Dante here. With the fruit, I'm not sure what else outside of possible illusion creation.
 
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