Devil May Cry 3 Speed Adjustment Part 2

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To whom is the burden of proof? If there's no evidence to the contrary, do we consider it as one?

There is no proof they are light.

 

[Golden_Void]

Beowulf (weapons)- " They also have glowing veins that have white light flowing through them."

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Combat Adjudicator — Beowulf: "I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique blessed with the sacred light can move me."

"all of Beowulf's component emit light with each punch and kick. They are capable of concentrating light into a ball and throwing it or erupting it from the users body. It can also cover the user in light. "

Beowulf - Stated above

Also in the case of those gifs, most, if not all, of Vergil's reactions were already occuring before Dante activated QS. I say most because in the last one, Vergil activates DT in the split second that Dante finished activating QS.

 

[Dark649]

By scaling from the Nevan, Other Lightning Demons, Quicksilver and DMC3 Devil Trigger: DMC3 Dante, Vergil, Nero, Trish, Arkham, Lucia, Arius, Credo, Sanctus, Base Baul and Modeus should be Massively Hypersonic+.

 

[Golden_Void]

Yup, especially Arkham as he's Jester and the giant blob you fight at the end with Vergil.

 

[Schnee_One]

Lady should get a small boost as well, but how much IDK.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I could see an aim dodge argument for him dodging lightning in that instance, to which I would say, it follows the same exact concept as dodging lightning in Bayonetta .

As for DMC 3 Dante's lightning dodging issue...


Just before Dante does his block

Dante in the middle of his blocking stance

Dante raises his right arm to block

The Dante being actually Massively Hypersonic+ is not automatically guaranteed for a couple of reasons.

• The distance covered by Dante raising his arms is not all that great, only about a meter at most.
• We do not know where the exact height of Nevan's lightning bolt in terms of height, as the actual lightning bolt travels down from an unknown height to the ground when Dante raises his arms.
• We do not know what the actual height of the roof (in that boss battle) is, as it could be that the lightning bolt traveled from the height of the roof down to the ground in a single frame.

As for the Quicksilver argument, said feat cannot automatically be guaranteed MHS+ either, because...

• Dante's speed is comparable to Vergil's even without Quicksilver involved
• Quicksilver only slows down Vergil's movement speed in comparison to Dante's, although this is only a slight decrease.
• As Gargoyle said, Gif 3 and 5 are just the shields around him, as they were active even before Quicksilver was even activated.

Dante's speed ~= Vergil's speed. Dante with Quicksilver >= Vergil's speed at that moment. Since Dante's speed is not MHS+ based on the reasons above, Vergil's speed would directly scale, and thus, would not be MHS+ either.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The shields are made of Vergil's own power and thus scale, also scale to Dante who can attack the shields and match swords.

Dante can parry lightning with Royal Guard. That should be simple to scale.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"We do not know where the exact height of Nevan's lightning bolt in terms of height, as the actual lightning bolt travels down from an unknown height to the ground when Dante raises his arms.

We do not know what the actual height of the roof (in that boss battle) is, as it could be that the lightning bolt traveled from the height of the roof down to the ground in a single frame."

What are you saying. The lightning comes from the ground as a pillar. It does not fall from the skies into Dante. Dante essentially reacts to the lightning from point-blank range.

 

[Lina_Shields]

What are you saying. The lightning comes from the ground as a pillar. It does not fall from the skies into Dante. Dante essentially reacts to the lightning from point-blank range.

• To qualify for point-blank range, the tip of lightning bolt must be shown to be very close to Dante before Dante reacts to it. From the screenshots that were posted above, said lightning came down from an unknown height and directly made contact with the ground in a single frame.
  • Thus, there is no possible way to figure out where the lightning's location was before Dante managed to raise his arms up in order to block it (other than Dante blocking it at the exact time said lightning was fired from the ceiling; we do not have a height for the ceiling however).

This is not a point blank lightning deflecting feat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"said lightning came down from an unknown height"

We know exactly where it comes from. From the ground. It emerges from the ground as a pillar.

I thought you watched the videos and would know that it doesn't fall from the skies.

 

[Golden_Void]

Yeah after watching it a million times it comes from the ground, cause it disappears from the bottom direction.

 

[Jelome1989]

Another one for point black range: (same video)

https://youtu.be/QZtJpO6nyWM?t=131

The entire area was covered with lightning in 1 frame change.

Beowulf (weapons)- " They also have glowing veins that have white light flowing through them."
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Combat Adjudicator — Beowulf: "I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique blessed with the sacred light can move me."

"all of Beowulf's component emit light with each punch and kick. They are capable of concentrating light into a ball and throwing it or erupting it from the users body. It can also cover the user in light. "

Beowulf - Stated above

Well, Beowulf is also called the Lightbeast if that helps.

 

[Dark649]

We do not accept light attacks at Speed of Light otherwise every character with light manipulation would have that speed rating.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Exactly. Attacks that are simply called "light" or look like light aren't realistic 1c light.

 

[Jelome1989]

When do you accept light attacks to be at Speed of Light?

 

[The_Everlasting]

When they display actual properties of light.

 

[Schnee_One]

When it shows FTL feats.

Piccolo's FTL laser was calculated at moving 68c, and that is acceptable

 

[Jelome1989]

When it shows FTL feats.

Piccolo's FTL laser was calculated at moving 68c, and that is acceptable

When they display actual properties of light.

Ah... OK I get it. So what is shown > what is said. Or yeah, in other words, actual speed feats.

EDIT: Then how about lightning? Does that lightning feat by Dante vs Nevan pass? I mean how does that video prove anything about it being real lightning?

 

[Golden_Void]

I don't see how white light that's stated to be light =/= light.

 

[Jelome1989]

otherwise every character with light manipulation would have that speed rating.

Well in that case though, they would have light speed attacks but not movement, combat and reaction speeds?

 

[Dark649]

Well in that case though, they would have light speed attacks but not movement, combat and reaction speeds?

No, that's not how it works and a lot of other characters would have Speed of Light reactions for light that does'nt act like one.

 

[Jelome1989]

Ok then if the light is proven to 'not act like one', then that's fair. However, in Beowulf's case, there doesn't seem to be anything to disprove it not being real light. The only thing we have is that it's stated ingame that it's light and its source is Beowulf the Lightbeast. So in this case, what would be the conclusion?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Nevan feat passes because:

1) It's stated to be electricity

2) She creates a miniature cloud with her breath in the cutscene, and the lightning comes from it.

If it was just stated to be lightning, it wouldn't pass.

 

[Lina_Shields]

The page for lightning dodging does say that characters who are able to manipulate electricity would have their electrical attacks equal to actual lightning speed.

If it was stated to be lightning, and comes from a character who is able to manipulate electricity, said attack would still qualify for lightning-speed here.

As for the lightning case, just set Dante's reactions/combat speed as Massively Hypersonic+ for him blocking lightning coming straight from the bottom.

 

[Golden_Void]

Nevan: I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique charged from the heavens can move me.

Which pretty much confirms lightning, as backed by her abilities

Beowulf: I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique blessed with the sacred light can move me.

Light, backed by his abilities.


I wish we could agree on a quicksilver multiplier though.

 

[Dark649]

Speed of Light is outlier since far higher demons above him have Sub-Relativistic combat speed/reactions.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Dark649 has a point there, Jelome.

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm not saying Beowulf is LS. I'm saying with his particular AoE light attack, there should be scaling based on reactions to that attack.

 

[Dark649]

Scaling that applies to DMC1 and 4 characters, which is outlier unless Griffon beams are in that same speed, including the Savior final attack.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Beowulf isn't light. It's just a magical attack that is called light.

 

[Golden_Void]

1. Well the series order is DMC3 - DMC - DMC4 - DMC2

2. Pretty sure Griffon only uses lightning

3. Savior might fall under this category.

And saying Beowulf isn't light without any proof doesn't make my argument less valid.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"And saying Beowulf isn't light without any proof doesn't make my argument less valid."

It's the other way around. You need proof that it is real, scientific light. Is his attack made of photons? Electromagnetic Waves? Refracted Light? Radiation? Radio Waves? Is it stated to move at the speed of light?

It isn't.

 

[Dark649]

He says sacred light meaning that is is mosty sacred and magical, also my previous comment.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He says sacred light meaning that is is mosty sacred and magical, also my previuos comment.

Yes. Sacred light, something akin to a heavenly / celestial light. It's Holy / Magical.

 

[Golden_Void]

Real scientific light? You better start those CRTs then because that's a lot of verses for you to go through. :^)

Can you prove to me for example, that Lille's light is any more real than Beowulf's?

On top of that, the game description for the Beowulf weapon is :

"Flash gauntlets and greaves. This set boosts Dante's attack and speed making him a powerhouse."

The definition of flash being "a sudden brief burst of bright light or a sudden glint from a reflective surface".

Both the weapon and the boss emit light when they attack. And holy light coming from a demon?

Also the definition of Doppelganger's ability: "Demon that takes the same shape of his foes. His ability is produced by refracting light in various directions. Due to this, he is essentially a demon composed of shadow."

Not every single thing is magic.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Real scientific light? You better start those CRTs then because that's a lot of verses for you to go through. :^)"

What other verses have or haven't is irrelevant to the current discussion.

"Flash gauntlets and greaves. This set boosts Dante's attack and speed making him a powerhouse."

Just because the gauntlets and greaves have luminosity, doesn't mean they are real light, if it was, any attack beam in fiction would be lightspeed.

"Both the weapon and the boss emit light when they attack"

Doesn't prove anything.

"And holy light coming from a demon?"

In Devil May Cry, there is 0 difference between angels and demons, and the Demon World is called Heaven numerous times, and the ruling demons are often considered Gods. So yes, Holy Light coming from a demon is very much acceptable in the verse.

Don't see how Doppelganger proves Beowulf is real light.

 

[Jelome1989]

if it was, any attack beam in fiction would be lightspeed.

If it is then why not? Unless it's silent of its nature or it's proven otherwise. It's fiction after all. Kizaru's Yata no Kagami technique does not show or prove that it's real light, but he says that his powers are light-based so it's treated as such.

Point is, in this case, it is also explicitly stated by the game that it uses light. So the argument weighs favorably that Beowulf uses light. The description of Beowulf and its attacks pretty much refer to light. Even its name has reference to light - "Lightbeast"

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, it isn't. The word "Light" being attatched to something isn't proof of lightspeed.

 

[Jelome1989]

Then why is Kizaru at light speed? I don't think there is proof that Yata no Kagami technique uses real light and I can't find any calcs for his feats. Sorry if this seems stupid but, how can I search calcs for Kizaru?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sure, if you don't like Kizaru being lightspeed, make a thread for it. But keep in mind that he literally states that he attacks at the speed of light.