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Desolate Era: Conceptual and Nondual Upgrades

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Someone said Ning was a weak Chinaman and I definitely took it personally (by Chinaman standards Ning will still be pretty weak tho, LMAO)

This thread will aim at complex abilities (and a minor one at the very end), namely Type 1 Concept Manipulation, Transduality and NEP.

Reading this accepted CRT as well as having some familiarity with this blog for the cosmology would be good to fully comprehend this thread, as I definitely don't plan to go over some minor things all over again, as it would only waste space and time.

Type 1 Concepts:

As can be seen in his profile, Ning already has type 2 concept hax, these being ranked in-verse in mainly 3 levels, Dao, Grand Dao and Heavenly Dao but there's also Supreme Daos, which are created by cultivators when their level (insight, power, etc) surpasses that of the Heavenly Daos.

As can be seen from their type, these are the concepts that make up everything in the universe, they are in turn the mere outer emanations of the Prime Essences of the Universe with their inner layers being outside what normal cultivators can reach, their superiority also extends to Supreme Daos, which as I said above are created by cultivators to surpass the Heavenly Daos, in comparison to Supreme Daos, an Omega Dao (which is a cultivators' Dao that was perfected to the level of the Prime Essences) is an ultimate Dao and is like the Taiji, with the Supreme Daos being merely the trigrams.

With the Prime Essences being also explicitly stated to be the source of the Primordial Chaos, which is the highest of the Heavenly Daos (this specific quote will be important again later).

In conclusion, there are Daos that make up the universe and then there are the Essences/Omega Daos which emanate them which should make them type 1 concepts, Ning would have this as soon as he gets his own Omega Sword Dao.

Transduality type 2:

As stated above, the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos is at the top of the hierarchy of Heavenly Daos and it was directly stated to be the source of the others, including Yin and Yang, Life and Destruction, etc

As seen in the previous section, Omega Daos were compared to the Taiji, the Prime Essences were stated to be the source of the Primordial Chaos and similarly were also stated to stabilize the entire universe, I've to add that Primordial Chaos is an omnipresent Heavenly Dao, unlike the others, which vary from place to place

In conclusion, the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos, the Prime Essences of the Universe and the Omega Daos should have Transduality for giving birth to Yin Yang and other dualities, as well as being directly compared to the Taiji in the story, Ning's soul would have this as it's one with his Dao and therefore was also affected when he achieved his Omega Sword Dao.

Possibly Layered Transduality:

In case the above doesn't go through as Transduality, this would probably be just default Transduality, so don't think to hard on the title.

Before going into the specific ability, I've to explain what is Daobirth:

Planck will agree with that this part of the series is strange, but simplifying, after a cultivator creates a Supreme Dao, they can evolve to other levels (by going through something called Daomerge), first Eternal Daos which later can reach Hegemon level and finally Daobirth, with Cultivators who have reached this level being called Autarchs.

At the level of Daobirth, ones Dao will become an Essence and its level will be directly comparable to an Eternal Omega Dao (which is an Omega Dao that went through Daomerge), being even able to create their own universe with their Daobirth Essence as a Prime Essence of this new, alternate universe.

Although indirectly, the above already implies Transduality, as I understand it, as ones' Daobirth Essence is able to create other Daos, which although not directly named, shouldn't be different from the Prime Essences and Daos we've seen before, such as Space, Time, Yin Yang, Primordial Chaos, etc.

How the above relates to Ning - Plurality:

As shown above, Ning's Eternal Omega Dao and Omega Daos in general have their own evidence for being Transdual and Type 1 Concepts, but what I see as more of evidence for Transduality (layered in case the previous ones are accepted) or Plurality appear when Ning himself goes through stages after basic Eternal Omega Dao.

After Ning reached the Eternal Omega level, he started to cultivate other Daos to the Hegemon level and ultimately fused then all into his Eternal Omega Sword Dao (there are more than the ones listed here), when Ning fused all of them at the same time alongside the will to cause absolute destruction, Ning created the Oblivion Sword Dao, which is the first step towards Omega Autarchy.

Later on he found out Oblivion is only one step and after it came Creation, both being facets of the true Autarch Omega Sword Dao, where one begets two, two begets three and three begets all things (as the translator pointed out, this is pretty much directly taken from Daoism and has been referenced on other, lower levels of the verse as well as I sent above) with the additional context that Autarch Omega Daos are the singularity known as Omega.

In conclusion, as seen in most of the quotes above, Ning's Dao is above Yin and Yang and all other dualities, Karma which connects all dualities and other such concepts like the Five Elements, as well as Oblivion which is the end of all these concepts and Creation which begins all of them, IMO this could be plurality as I find it pretty similar to one of the examples the page uses for plurality.

The above would apply to Ning's Dao/Soul/mind as his insight surpassed the Quintessence of the Chaosverse but not his body... if it can even be called a body at this point as he fused with the Chaosverse (read his profile for more info on his body), but his body can in theory receive anything up to the level of the Eternal Omega Daos, as the Chaosverse is ultimately made up of them.

Upgrade to 9D:

You might be wandering why I explained what Daobirth is if it barely was directly used in the above Section and why I said you should be familiar with the cosmology of the verse, these things will be important now.

To begin with, what is currently accepted is that Prime Essences/Omega Daos are 7D, as are universes and there are cultivators whose hax and resistances scale here even tho they lack Essences/Omega Daos (in other words, they have the dimensionality but not the profundity)

Above these two as I've shown throughout this thread there is the Quintessence, which is actually a collection of Eternal Omega Daos and the Daobirth Essences which scale here as I've also shown, are already accepted as 8D.

When a cultivator that doesn't use an Omega Dao and instead uses a normal Eternal Dao (which would be at the Hegemonic level in this case, but Hegemonic is more a power level than a stage itself, if you get what I mean) goes through Daobirth and they become Autarchs, their Dao is upgraded to a level it's on par with Eternal Omega Daos, so an Eternal Omega Dao which has gone through Daobirth would in turn be at a higher dimensional level than everything below it.

Miscellaneous additions:
Immortality type 2, as he can survive without his head and in higher level can act normally without his head

Limited NEP (Type 1, Aspects 1, 2, 3 and 5; In his "Void Will" state he lacks all aspects of his being, including his body, soul, and truesoul, which is the imprint of a being within Destiny. The mind and soul are one and the same for all beings and even include the Daos they fused with).

Agree Votes:

Type 1 Concept for Essences/Omega Daos: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @BestMGQScalerEver @deonment @Elizhaa

Type 2 Nonduality for the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @deonment @Elizhaa

Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Prime Essences/Omega Daos: @BestMGQScalerEver @Elizhaa

Higher Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Daobirth and Eternal Omega Daos: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @deonment @Elizhaa

Plurality for Autarch Omega Daos: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @deonment @Elizhaa

9 Dimensional Autarch Omega Daos: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @deonment @Elizhaa

Limited NEP for Void Will*: @Planck69 @Dereck03 @deonment @Elizhaa

*There's disagreement if it should be type 1 or 2 NEP.
 
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Already went through this before and yeah, the additions seem fine to me. Ning can already affect the Infinite Void with temporal abilities, with said Void being accepted as 9-dimensional, so there's already a showcase of such a scale of abilities. And I believe Ning's plurality would apply holistically rather than to just his Dao.

As for the justifications, I was thinking having them written as;

The below is for his Lord of Chaos key;
 
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And I believe Ning's plurality would apply holistically rather than to just his Dao.
Agree with this
I get where all the aspects come from, but
1)This should be limited given he does not access to such a state at all times, along with (to our knowledge) the fact Ning can't do anything in this state
2)Where does type 2 come from? I genuinely don't remember any dao or thing of nonexistence from earlier on in the story, so, why NEP 2? Just having nonduality doesn't actually make NEP someone has due to or beyond such type 2 on its own.
 
Isn't this type 2?
 
Agree with this

I get where all the aspects come from, but
1)This should be limited given he does not access to such a state at all times, along with (to our knowledge) the fact Ning can't do anything in this state
2)Where does type 2 come from? I genuinely don't remember any dao or thing of nonexistence from earlier on in the story, so, why NEP 2? Just having nonduality doesn't actually make NEP someone has due to or beyond such type 2 on its own.
1. I mean, sure. The label doesn't matter to me so long as that information is conveyed. So if that's limited then sure.

2. Basically, my logic is that he's nonexistent relative to his Dao, which is one with his soul. Said Dao is itself nondual and encompasses all dualities, including even the Dao of Destruction as established on the thread. If that's not Type 2 then sure, but I'd just make clear on the profile how it works.
 
Isn't this type 2?
Not quite. An Eternal Omega Dao/Prime Essence is already Transdual and encompasses not only all dualities, but the Primordial Chaos that precedes even the Taiji that gives birth to them.

Oblivion is complete and utter annihilation and absence of all Prime Essence. Creation is the opposite and encompasses all Prime Essences. Both are just facets of an Omega Daobirth/Autarch Omega Dao that supercedes both and is a singularity in comparison.

TL;DR
Taiji = Transdual Type 2
Primordial Chaos = Precedes Taiji
Supreme Daos = Above Primordial Chaos.
Omega Dao = Prime Essence = Emanates Primordial Chaos from itself.
Eternal Omega Dao = On par with Daobirth, which can give rise to all other Prime Essences.
Oblivion = Complete absence of all Prime Essences.
Creation = Opposite of Oblivion
Autarch Omega Dao = Encompasses both and is a singularity relative to them.

At least, I hope I got that right, and didn't confuse myself lol.
 
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In conclusion, there are Daos that make up the universe and then there are the Essences/Omega Daos which emanate them which should make them type 1 concepts, Ning would have this as soon as he gets his own Omega Sword Dao
I think heavenly primordial chaos has qualified for CM1 criteria because all other heavenly daos are also part of heavenly primordial chaos even preceded it. while all those born from primordial chaos are subjects of heavenly primordial chaos. this is also the underlying reason why heavenly primordial chaos exists in all daos. When all heavenly daos do not exist meanwhile heavenly primordial daos still exists (in the nihilum zone).

The primordial chaos could be divided into the duality of Yin and Yang. It could also be divided into the essence of life and the essence of destruction, or the Five Elements of metal, wood, water, fire, earth.

If you trained in any of the other nine Heavenly Daos you trained it, you were also training in the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos!
This was why only Daofathers were able to draw upon the energy of primordial chaos and able to train in that Dao. As a result, World Gods and Chaos Immortals who reached that level through understanding the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos were extremely, extremely common.

Book 23 8

Indeed, Ning truly knew too little.

Of the ten Heavenly Daos, Primordial Chaos was the most supreme. Life and Destruction were matched, while Yin and Yang were also matched; these four were preceded only by Primordial Chaos. As for the Five Elements of Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth, they served as the foundation for the entirety of the Three Realms…but they were on the third tier. Ning had an extremely deep level of insight into the Grand Dao of the Waterdrop, which was why he could vaguely sense the existence of the Heavenly Dao of Water, but here within the Nihilum Zone, he was completely unable to sense it…and so he had believed that the Heavenly Daos did not exist here!

Book 16 10


However…there is no need to worry about a little fellow like him,” the Queen Mother’s voice rang out. “This is the Infinite Land, not the Three Realms. Those so-called Heavenly Daos of Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, Earth, and the others…they are useless here. Only the most supreme of Daos, the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos, is present here. The Dao of Primordial Chaos is the most exalted of Daos. Both the Infinite Land and the Three Realms were born from the primordial chaos…and anything born from the primordial chaos is subject to the Dao of Primordial Chaos. However…anyone capable of understanding the Dao of Primordial Chaos, even just a tiny part of it, would be considered one of the most supreme figures of the Three Realms. This little fellow shouldn’t be that strong.”

book 16 9
^this is the proof if all heavenly daos did not existed in nihilum zone except heavenly primordial chaos

and yeah even if primordial chaos is same categorized as heavenly daos but in term power is so different.
 
And I believe Ning's plurality would apply holistically rather than to just his Dao.
Well, I am not sure myself so I played safe in the OP and made a distinction between his "body" and his "dao", but as I said he doesn't have a conventional body and his Dao is fused with his soul to begin with, so it may as well apply to his everything.

Also, it's pretty hard to discern the two as Ning is both a Fiendgod Body Cultivator and a Ki Refiner Cultivator, but we know that while Ning's Ki Refiner side had its soul and Jindan constantly being upgraded by his cultivation and Daos from his inside, his Fiendgod side had fused his soul and body and was upgrading them in the outside.

The novel doesn't really portray his body as abstract or anything like that most of the time, but in moments like this it clearly had his Dao affecting both his internal soul and his body (which again, is a fusion of a physical body and part of his soul).

I don't have much of a problem following this logic right now to fully upgrade his Lord of Chaos key, but this would definitely have to be updated to also apply to his other keys if we follow this path.

Isn't this type 2?
I mean, the point of this CRT is exactly to find that out.

Yin and Yang are the dualities, so using "is A" and "is not A" isn't enough, Karma is the connection of all things so "is both A" doesn't work either, Creation would be "is both A and not A" and Oblivion is its opposite, so "neither A and nor not A".

All of the above doesn't describe Ning, who is simply the singularity of Omega.
 
Well, I am not sure myself so I played safe in the OP and made a distinction between his "body" and his "dao", but as I said he doesn't have a conventional body and his Dao is fused with his soul to begin with, so it may as well apply to his everything.

Also, it's pretty hard to discern the two as Ning is both a Fiendgod Body Cultivator and a Ki Refiner Cultivator, but we know that while Ning's Ki Refiner side had its soul and Jindan constantly being upgraded by his cultivation and Daos from his inside, his Fiendgod side had fused his soul and body and was upgrading them in the outside.

The novel doesn't really portray his body as abstract or anything like that most of the time, but in moments like this it clearly had his Dao affecting both his internal soul and his body (which again, is a fusion of a physical body and part of his soul).

I don't have much of a problem following this logic right now to fully upgrade his Lord of Chaos key, but this would definitely have to be updated to also apply to his other keys if we follow this path.
The thing is, he merges with the Quintessence of the Chaosverse, not just the material world, so for the Lord of Chaos key, the nature of this Dao (now the root of the Prime Essences that make up the Quintessence) would apply to him holistically rather than just his soul/truesoul like in lower levels, as I understand it.
 
2. Basically, my logic is that he's nonexistent relative to his Dao, which is one with his soul. Said Dao is itself nondual and encompasses all dualities, including even the Dao of Destruction as established on the thread. If that's not Type 2 then sure, but I'd just make clear on the profile how it works.
Yeah okay, fair enough, was just checking, im kinda iffy on that qualifying for type 2, but im not exactly against it
 
Already went through this before and yeah, the additions seem fine to me. Ning can already affect the Infinite Void with temporal abilities, with said Void being accepted as 9-dimensional, so there's already a showcase of such a scale of abilities. And I believe Ning's plurality would apply holistically rather than to just his Dao.

As for the justifications, I was thinking having them written as;

The below is for his Lord of Chaos key;
I do agree with everything here except Type 2 NEP.
2. Basically, my logic is that he's nonexistent relative to his Dao, which is one with his soul. Said Dao is itself nondual and encompasses all dualities, including even the Dao of Destruction as established on the thread. If that's not Type 2 then sure, but I'd just make clear on the profile how it works.
What does the dao of destruction have to do with Ning being non-existent or anything related to physiology? There is no proof that the dao of destruction has any relation to non-existence and your argument that Ning is non-existent to his dao which is his soul would only be NEP 1.
 
I do agree with everything here except Type 2 NEP.
By everything you mean both the layered Nonduality as well as Plurality? Just to be sure as these abilities are pretty complex, so I will add their votes individually to the OP, to be specific:

Type 1 Concept for Essences/Omega Daos:
Type 2 Nonduality for the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos:
Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Prime Essences/Omega Daos***:
Higher Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Daobirth and Eternal Omega Daos:
Plurality for Autarch Omega Daos:
9 Dimensional Autarch Omega Daos:
Limited NEP for Void Will:

*** I think I didn't properly highlight this in the OP, but I do think Prime Essences/Omega Daos are a layer higher than the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos, since as I showcased they emanate it and have a Taiji-trigrams relationship with other Daos like it.

Edit: Since I only clarified this point now, I didn't add most current votes on this specific topic to the OP.
 
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By everything you mean both the layered Nonduality as well as Plurality? Just to be sure as these abilities are pretty complex, so I will add their votes individually to the OP, to be specific:
For some reason I didn't got the notification. I just agreed with the draft that Planck gave. But I didn't agreed with his conclusion of the NEP being Type 2 as there's just one type of nonexistence here which is your regular type and that would be type 1 with the limited rating.
 
Do you think heavenly primordial chaos is qualified for cm type 1
Ehhh, not really, the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos is definitely above hierarchically than the others, but as your own quotes showcased it still is what makes up the world (as well as the other Daos themselves) rather than existing independently from it, as is needed for a concept to receive Type 1 (it will get Nonduality tho).

For some reason I didn't got the notification. I just agreed with the draft that Planck gave. But I didn't agreed with his conclusion of the NEP being Type 2 as there's just one type of nonexistence here which is your regular type and that would be type 1 with the limited rating.
Sure, I discussed it with Planck and it's better if we simply give NEP 1, as the books left some things unclear regarding certain Daos.

Did you read the changes I made to the OP? If everything is okay, I will send another post in a few minutes clarifying which of Ning's keys gets what (I will also check if there are other profiles who would be affected by this CRT).
 
hmm, but the explanation of the concept has an object and the object of heavenly primordial chaos is another Daos. and also even though heavenly primordial chaos created the world, it doesn't matter because there are scans that say that heavenly primordial chaos precedes other heavenly daos and still exists even though other daos don't exist
 
It is still ultimately something emanated by the actual source of the reality of the Realmverse, not independent of that. So, I do not see Type 1 for it specifically.
 
Type 1 Concept for Essences/Omega Daos:
Ji Ning will have this in his Daolord key onwards, Nuwa will have this in her 2nd Key (with an important note this applies to both their nature, hax and resistances, as long as it's related to their Essences/Omega Dao).

Type 2 Nonduality for the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos:
Nuwa will have this in her 1st key onwards

Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Prime Essences/Omega Daos:
Ning will have this in his Daolord key onwards, Nuwa will have this in her 2nd key

Higher Layered Type 2 Nonduality for Daobirth and Eternal Omega Daos:
Ning will have this in his Eternal Emperor key

Plurality for Autarch Omega Daos:
9 Dimensional Autarch Omega Daos:
Both will only apply to Ning as a Lord of Chaos, as Planck said it would apply holistically rather than to specific aspects.

Limited NEP for Void Will:
Ning will have this in his Eternal Emperor key onwards.

Immortality type 2 (which I didn't count the votes because honestly it's so straight forward I can't see someone disagreeing) is limited for both his Zifu Disciple and Wanxiang Adept keys, while his Void Fiendgod onwards isn't limited anymore.
 
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It is still ultimately something emanated by the actual source of the reality of the Realmverse, not independent of that. So, I do not see Type 1 for it specifically.
I mean a concept just simply has to be independent from its particulars to be type 1 rather than being wholly independent of reality as a whole
For some reason I didn't got the notification. I just agreed with the draft that Planck gave. But I didn't agreed with his conclusion of the NEP being Type 2 as there's just one type of nonexistence here which is your regular type and that would be type 1 with the limited rating.
I mean I can see the argument given that the Oblivion Sword Dao Ning has is the absolute lack of all things, but is also stated to be tied to destruction if not the highest extent of destruction within the Chaosverse, so one could argue that a lesser emanation of it, even were it to not hold the same degree of (non)existence, would still be nonexistent in some manner, which his Void Will state would be less existent than

Speaking of which, I just realized that Ning should just gain straight-up NEP 2 for his Lord Of Chaos key given how he encompasses the Obvlion Sword Dao within himself and it is the utter absence of all Daos, but is also transcended by his Dao at the end of the series
 
I mean a concept just simply has to be independent from its particulars to be type 1 rather than being wholly independent of reality as a whole

I mean I can see the argument given that the Oblivion Sword Dao Ning has is the absolute lack of all things, but is also stated to be tied to destruction if not the highest extent of destruction within the Chaosverse, so one could argue that a lesser emanation of it, even were it to not hold the same degree of (non)existence, would still be nonexistent in some manner, which his Void Will state would be less existent than

Speaking of which, I just realized that Ning should just gain straight-up NEP 2 for his Lord Of Chaos key given how he encompasses the Obvlion Sword Dao within himself and it is the utter absence of all Daos, but is also transcended by his Dao at the end of the series
The Nonduality he disagreed with was for a lower key than the Oblivion Sword Dao to be fair.

You are correct about the Lord of Chaos key having that level of NEP. I dunno how I missed it lol.
 
The Nonduality he disagreed with was for a lower key than the Oblivion Sword Dao to be fair.
Yeah, I am aware, I'm simply saying that given the Oblivion Sword Dao is the highest extent of destruction within the series, and is nonexistent, then even if it wasn't of the same level of (non)existence as the Oblivion Sword Dao itself, I can see an argument for lesser extents of destruction still being nonexistent to some extent
 
Since this thread has not been finished yet, could I propose that Ning should have type 5 Immortality as well, as he transcends Life and Destruction? This would apply to him and Nuwa as it comes from the very first Transduality in the verse of the dao of Primordial Chaos.
Should be fine.
Speaking of which, I just realized that Ning should just gain straight-up NEP 2 for his Lord Of Chaos key given how he encompasses the Obvlion Sword Dao within himself and it is the utter absence of all Daos, but is also transcended by his Dao at the end of the series
You are correct about the Lord of Chaos key having that level of NEP. I dunno how I missed it lol.
I'm a little confused here... The reason why I found NEP Type 1 valid would be because Ning would be non-existent to his dao (which is his soul), and encompassing the Obvlion Sword Dao within himself would only affect the rest of the dualities and these have no relation to non-existence per se since no duality related to non-existence was ever mentioned and according to you at the end of the series his own dao transcends the Obvlion Sword (? ) then that would guarantee Nonduality but he is still non-existent to his own dao so it would not guarantee more than NEP 1 but this time layered.

His dao transcends Obvlion Sword and remains non-existent to it. Same non-existence (with layered aspect) but with ND 3.
 
I'm a little confused here... The reason why I found NEP Type 1 valid would be because Ning would be non-existent to his dao (which is his soul), and encompassing the Obvlion Sword Dao within himself would only affect the rest of the dualities and these have no relation to non-existence per se since no duality related to non-existence was ever mentioned and according to you at the end of the series his own dao transcends the Obvlion Sword (? ) then that would guarantee Nonduality but he is still non-existent to his own dao so it would not guarantee more than NEP 1 but this time layered.

His dao transcends Obvlion Sword and remains non-existent to it. Same non-existence (with layered aspect) but with ND 3.
The first NEP (His Void Will), has him existing in a state that is nonexistent to his body, soul (which is his mind and has become his Daos), and truesoul, this state comes before he gains his Oblivion Sword Dao, which is the absolute and utter absence of everything, including other Daos, which he then goes on to surpass, along with its opposite in his Creation Sword Dao which encompasses, transcends and creates everything including Daos, when he creates his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which exists as their source
The second NEP would come from scaling to his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which transcends all that, along with his body being the chaosverse itself, which encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao within itself

I was saying that as the Creation and Oblivion Sword are the highest degrees of Life and Destruction, then one could draw the conclusion that even were they to not exist or exhibit the qualities at the same level as the Creation and Oblivion Daos, they would still share some general properties, of particular note being the NEP in this case. Aka the Heavenly Dao of Destruction should have NEP because it is a "lesser" form of Oblivion, and so his soul which transcends that once he reaches the Omega level, and so his Void Will state which lacks all of his body, soul and truesoul, should in theory have NEP 2 if you follow this line of reasoning, given it is nonexistent to his body, soul (concept that transcends a possibly NEP dao), and truesoul (even more fundamental than his soul)
Though I now realize the same argument applies and is even more solid for his Lord Of Chaos state given it would involve being nonexistent to the point of his Body (Encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao), Soul (Transcends the Oblivion Sword Dao) and his Truesoul (Even more fundamental than his soul), which would also make his regen better
 
The first NEP (His Void Will), has him existing in a state that is nonexistent to his body, soul (which is his mind and has become his Daos), and truesoul, this state comes before he gains his Oblivion Sword Dao, which is the absolute and utter absence of everything, including other Daos, which he then goes on to surpass, along with its opposite in his Creation Sword Dao which encompasses, transcends and creates everything including Daos, when he creates his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which exists as their source
The second NEP would come from scaling to his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which transcends all that, along with his body being the chaosverse itself, which encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao within itself

I was saying that as the Creation and Oblivion Sword are the highest degrees of Life and Destruction, then one could draw the conclusion that even were they to not exist or exhibit the qualities at the same level as the Creation and Oblivion Daos, they would still share some general properties, of particular note being the NEP in this case. Aka the Heavenly Dao of Destruction should have NEP because it is a "lesser" form of Oblivion, and so his soul which transcends that once he reaches the Omega level, and so his Void Will state which lacks all of his body, soul and truesoul, should in theory have NEP 2 if you follow this line of reasoning, given it is nonexistent to his body, soul (concept that transcends a possibly NEP dao), and truesoul (even more fundamental than his soul)
Though I now realize the same argument applies and is even more solid for his Lord Of Chaos state given it would involve being nonexistent to the point of his Body (Encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao), Soul (Transcends the Oblivion Sword Dao) and his Truesoul (Even more fundamental than his soul), which would also make his regen better
Ain't reading all that
:pepeesoacial~1:

I could find the argument based on this doable then.
 
Ain't reading all that
:pepeesoacial~1:

I could find the argument based on this doable then.
Lol.

So are there any issues with the original proposal for NEP and the new ones that you still have? Or can I take this as am agreement?

The first NEP (His Void Will), has him existing in a state that is nonexistent to his body, soul (which is his mind and has become his Daos), and truesoul, this state comes before he gains his Oblivion Sword Dao, which is the absolute and utter absence of everything, including other Daos, which he then goes on to surpass, along with its opposite in his Creation Sword Dao which encompasses, transcends and creates everything including Daos, when he creates his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which exists as their source
The second NEP would come from scaling to his Autarch Omega Sword Dao, which transcends all that, along with his body being the chaosverse itself, which encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao within itself

I was saying that as the Creation and Oblivion Sword are the highest degrees of Life and Destruction, then one could draw the conclusion that even were they to not exist or exhibit the qualities at the same level as the Creation and Oblivion Daos, they would still share some general properties, of particular note being the NEP in this case. Aka the Heavenly Dao of Destruction should have NEP because it is a "lesser" form of Oblivion, and so his soul which transcends that once he reaches the Omega level, and so his Void Will state which lacks all of his body, soul and truesoul, should in theory have NEP 2 if you follow this line of reasoning, given it is nonexistent to his body, soul (concept that transcends a possibly NEP dao), and truesoul (even more fundamental than his soul)
Though I now realize the same argument applies and is even more solid for his Lord Of Chaos state given it would involve being nonexistent to the point of his Body (Encompasses the Oblivion Sword Dao), Soul (Transcends the Oblivion Sword Dao) and his Truesoul (Even more fundamental than his soul), which would also make his regen better
Adding onto this, Primordial Chaos not only predates all dualities and the Taiji, it's also described as a void (on mobile so give me a minute to post that scan), so it would itself be NEP. It's higher than the Dao of Destruction but still far below Prime Essences that emanate it, which the Oblivion Dao is the utter lack and absence of.
 
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