Deoxys meteor: The revenge

[StrymULTRA]

You thought that it ended for good? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

I saw this calc with the scans about the meteor actually busting the Planet even in manga, so I'd like to see if is usable even here or not.

Distance was taken from here

EDIT:
I made 2 versions of the calc as well, putting the planet busting as legit., choose one of them or the blog I linked:

• Method 1
• Method 2

 

[SamanPatou]

I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.

Yeah, I needed an opinion on that too.

 

[Half_Shiny]

Yeah honestly once the number gets checked I am completely in support of 5-A Ray and Mewtwo. But yeah rn numbers look solid so seems fair game

 

[StrymULTRA]

I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.

Tho, a guy on Discord said this for ya

The second scan and the third scan go together. These are statements made after Blaise, Giovanni, and the others also become aware of Grand Meteor Delta's threat.

The second scan ties into the meteorite. They're talking about how it directly impacts their goals.

Blaise: “The one that said 'we will awaken Groudon and cover Hoenn... No, the entire world with boiling magma!”

Amber: ”...Yes, but you need a planet to that...”

They heavily imply here that it's the outright destruction of the planet and that they couldn't cover the world in anything if there wasn't a planet to do it to. Surface of the planet honestly doesn't make much sense over the literal destruction in this context. Giovanni's statement is just further support because they make it seem like the planet itself won't remain, not just the surface.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Another one

Let me just put it like this. Surface busting realistically would not mean shit to Groudon (or Kyogre). It is literally known for the fact it created the land in Pokémon's world and has the ability to easily terraform the planet, something they reference in that panel even. They make the outright distinction that Team Magma wouldn't be able to do any of that without a planet to do it too. It should be very obvious just the type of destruction we're dealing with at this point.

 

[SamanPatou]

I totally missed what the bald guy said, it makes more sense now. Atm I believe the total destruction of the planet may be legit, but I want see what others think. (and how the calc gets evaluated).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Added my own versions btw, so you can choose between them.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

All in for it imo, seems alright

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You can cover a shaved planet in magma. You can’t cover a busted planet in magma.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, seems like that the planet being busted and not just the surface is generally accepted.

Now then, who's the Calcer who's gonna give an opinion on which Calc is valid?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Looks fine

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I have been summoned, what do I need to do?

 

[Psychomaster35]

We have found more scans that the meteor was going to destroy the entire planet, not just surface area, and would like you to take a look at them. If you agree with the scans, should the original planet busting calc be accepted over the surface busting?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Not gonna lie, those scans could still just be referring to the destruction of the surface alone

Honestly why not just make the meteorite Baseline 5-B and call it a day

 

[Spinoirr]

There is also that MYD feat of another planet killer metor

 

[StrymULTRA]

I have been summoned, what do I need to do?

Choose one of the 3 calcs

Not gonna lie, those scans could still just be referring to the destruction of the surface alone

As The Real Cal explained, you can't cover the Earth in magma if there's not a planet anymore, and even SamanPatou accepted such, aka it planet busting instead of just the surface is legit.

Honestly why not just make the meteorite Baseline 5-B and call it a day

Just no, it has evidence to be calculated at more than that lol.

 

[Chariot190]

No offense but not a single one of those scans implies total planetary annihilation, at all.
They all just imply the planet is gonna be ****** up, which is what would happen if the planet was peeled like a orange with everything on it dying.

Johto is in the same country as Hoenn, so I have no idea why that scan is being used.

This also kinda ignores the issue that was there originally and none of those scans solves any of those issues.

Also, the meteor the primals blew up was demonstrably not even a fraction of a fraction of planet level, it being a hundreds times smaller doesnt matter when when the reason why the larger meteor is so dangerous has absolutely nothing to do with size but rather a psychic ayy lmao making it deadly, the meteor those two busted was just some fragments off the big one that was coming if memory serves.

Stick with the calc we had, it was fine then and it's fine now given none of the new information is enough to change it or even effect the issues it had originally.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, if the surface got nuked, Maxie/Archie can just recreate it with the legendaries, surface destruction means nothing to such.

 

[Chariot190]

Another one

Let me just put it like this. Surface busting realistically would not mean shit to Groudon (or Kyogre). It is literally known for the fact it created the land in Pokémon's world and has the ability to easily terraform the planet, something they reference in that panel even. They make the outright distinction that Team Magma wouldn't be able to do any of that without a planet to do it too. It should be very obvious just the type of destruction we're dealing with at this point.

Out of context, they can do that yeah, over time, even if you want to say it wouldn't take that long at all (in the context of the manga though it's not a instant feat, takes them awhile, at least a few days). In the games it takes a long time as well, in fact the most we see in the games is half the region covered but planetary over time due to explicit statements. The quickest version we've ever seen of that is the generations episode, and the most we see is hoenn get covered within like a minute or two, which isnt exactly the whole planet.
And in the past? They fought for lengths of time, even while Primal, shit didnt **** the planet up in a instant.
This is basically like saying that while someone can tear down a wall in the span of like a minute or two it's the same as a 16 wheeler truck plowing through said wall shattering it in a fraction of a second. End result is the same (on paper) but in action it aint at all.

It's not at all comparable to a giant meteor instantly ejecting like quarter of the planet's mass off it's surface into space in a instant upon impact.

Like it or not, we literally see the planet after impact with debris from the ejected mass floating around it because gravity is a thing. It's not the moon, it's ost certainly not another planet, and nothing is going to change this unless an actual quote comes to light that outright says the entire planet will be destroyed, and not just words that could mean entire antihalation, but also just surface.

I mean, if the surface got nuked, Maxie/Archie can just recreate it with the legendaries, surface destruction means nothing to such.

No they couldn't? Ignoring the fact both were dead and were running on fumes, of which wasn't even enough to make it to the end of the arc, meaning, they were quite literally not around to do that, hell I think they faded out of existence even. How can they remake anything if literally everyone and everything on the planet is dead? Groudon and Kyogre included? Because that would happen no matter what level of destruction we're talking about, hell even ignoring the fact a good chunk of the planet is straight up gone and the impact was said to kill everyone on the planet, the atmosphere is gone, no oxygen, immense amounts of radiation and so on, if the impact didn't kill just about everything, the cancer with asphyxiation would.

 

[Chariot190]

Honestly, is the destruction more then just the surface?
Yes, I even said as much in the last thread, but was it the entire planet?
No, it wasn't then and it ain't now. A noticeable and demonstrable chunk of the planet survived the impact, this isn't exactly up for debate, I'd wager it was more then the surface sure, hell probably even the mantle, but the whole thing? Absolutely not, it's explicitly wrong.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Don't take me wrong, I'm neutral, however I'd like to hear more opinions about this from the staff.

 

[Chariot190]

Don't take me wrong, I'm neutral, however I'd like to hear more opinions about this from the staff.

It's literally your thread, and like the fourth one on this topic.
This isn't even a matter of opinion, I don't care if we wanna say it was MORE then surface busting, I don't care if we increase the speed of the ejected mass, I don't care if we even give it a higher distance ejected, that's all subjective and is open to interpretation. I'm just against saying it was a full planet bust because that's straight up false.

The matter of if it was a full planet bust? That isn't a matter of opinion, because we quite literally see the planet in the aftermath with the ejected debris floating around the planet like a saturn ring, it quite literally still existed after the impact, saying the whole planet went boom is outright lying.

Edit: And actually, the "turn the world to ash" line is counterintuitive, he's saying that he doesn't care if the planet gets turned to ash by some idiot but a meteor doing that? Is something he has qualms with.
But that's ignoring exactly what he's talking about, that being Maxie ******* the planet up with Groudon and turning it into molten slag and scorched beyond repair and livability. He's literally saying he doesnt care if Maxie turns the planet into a molten wasteland but a meteor doing that isn't ok.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can I see all these scans, please?

 

[Chariot190]

Can I see all these scans, please?

I'm assuming you mean the scans OP brought up that imply total planetary destruction?
They're in the link in the op, this one.
Unless you mean something I myself brought up, specify and I can go grab it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mostly meant without calcs around them, like the pure scans. That said, that'll do, mostly interested in the bit where you claim the planet was literally still visible, as if this is the case, it makes this a very easy thread to deal with.

 

[Chariot190]

Here.
Unless you want to assume that's the sun, moon or another planet which is kinda ridiculous.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

In that particular scan that Chariot posted, it looks as if the Earth's structure as a whole would still end up intact instead of said structure being obliterated as a whole. Yes, it is possible for just the Earth's crust to be blown away while the planet itself as whole remains intact.

Bottom right panel of the scan btw.

There are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to this specific calculation and whether said meteor would actually have enough kinetic energy to actually blow up the Earth entirely or not, starting with the meteor's size + whether the destruction of the Earth's surface (specifically the world) would still be enough for the planet to be obliterated, from the cast' pov.

 

[Chariot190]

starting with the meteor's size

That's not inherently a issue, it's fueled and controlled by a psychic alien telekinetically so it gets a pass (it's like 160km long though if anyone is interested).

I'm just against it being treated as a full planet bust because it's visually not true, the very scene being calculated shows it to not be the case.
Everything else? That's open to interpretation and subjectivity so go wild.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I am inclined to agree that we're looking at a yet-undestroyed Earth, though like it isn't as clear cut as I would have liked.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

it's like 160km long though if anyone is interested

Is there not a different screen/panel of the meteor available other than the one that was posted?

I'm just checking if there is an altenate scene where the meteor (or a part of it) is shown that may contradict its calculated size.

 

[Chariot190]

Is there not a different screen/panel of the meteor available other than the one that was posted?

I'm just checking if there is an altenate scene where the meteor (or a part of it) is shown that may contradict its calculated size.

Not really I don't think, the only other time we see it, it's absolutely ******* massive and can be seen from thousands of km away. The size is probably consistent all things considered. (At least in the manga, it changes drastically between media like the manga or games).

The size isn't the issue, and the size doesn't matter, it could be the size of a grain of sand, if the destruction we're shown from the impact is of a certain caliber, that's how strong the impact is as that's what we see and it being controlled telekinetically handwaves any kinetic and size discrepancy.
Only real issue here is that the planet visually still remained, thus treating it as a full planet bust is dishonest and we had three threads arguing this already, why we need a fourth I don't know but the current calc is fine imo. Anything higher based on total destruction is wrong.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So in short the surface bust is still good to use over the total planet destruction.

Asking to close then.

 

[Chariot190]

So in short the surface bust is still good to use over the total planet destruction.

Asking to close then.

I mean, you could probably get away with mantle destruction or some shit. If you really wanted you could take the size of the debris and use that as the depth of what got shaved off the planet.
As long as we don't say the whole planet got popped I'm fine with it, within reason with credence at least.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, you could probably get away with mantle destruction or some shit. If you really wanted you could take the size of the debris and use that as the depth of what got shaved off the planet.
As long as we don't say the whole planet got popped I'm fine with it, within reason with credence at least.

I'd keep the og Calc and call it a day

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You have to calculate destroying the surface to the point that magma can no longer be produced. Which is much deeper than the surface.

 

[Chariot190]

You have to calculate destroying the surface to the point that magma can no longer be produced. Which is much deeper than the surface.

Not inherently true, if you're going by the line about covering the world in magma, I don't think I need to explain why it isn't as simple as you're insinuating, unless you actually need me to explain the multitude of reasons why they wouldn't be able to cover the world in magma.
Now do I disagree with it being deeper then a surface wipe? Not really but that line ain't the best reason why, one could always just like, scale the pieces of debris to get a depth?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not inherently true, if you're going by the line about covering the world in magma, I don't think I need to explain why it isn't as simple as you're insinuating, unless you actually need me to explain the multitude of reasons why they wouldn't be able to cover the world in magma.
Now do I disagree with it being deeper then a surface wipe? Not really but that line ain't the best reason why, one could always just like, scale the pieces of debris to get a depth?

One of my methods use debris tho

 

[Chariot190]

One of my methods use debris tho

Yes, one of the calcs used the debris, but if I recall, not an average, and definitely not for the distance ejected which is why, if I recall, why we opted not to use that end, because the distance of all the ejected mass was different, or something like that.

You're gonna either have to stick with our safe end or redo it while taking into account everything that's been discussed thus far, which honestly, seems like a huge pain in the ass for whoever wants to go through that agonizing hell.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, one of the calcs used the debris, but if I recall, not an average, and definitely not for the distance ejected which is why, if I recall, why we opted not to use that end, because the distance of all the ejected mass was different, or something like that.

EEEEH??
I did both the average for both

You're gonna either have to stick with our safe end or redo it while taking into account everything that's been discussed thus far, which honestly, seems like a huge pain in the ass for whoever wants to go through that agonizing hell.

Well, if we can use the debris calc then fine, but even the safe end is good.