Denji (Csm) VS Jotaro (Jjba)

[Pyro9278]

Rules:
- Jotaro Stardust Crusaders / Star Platinum

• Denji Post-Training
• They start 15 meters apart in Cairo, where Dio and the Stardust Crusaders fought
• Both are in character and are aware of each other
• Equal Speed

Yare yare daze:

Love Me Some Baddies, Can’t Get Enough:

Incon:

 

[SlendVeny]

Jotaro: "You like women? That's kinda cringe bro "

Denjamin: "What are you-"

Jotaro: "oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora"

 

[Chariot190]

Equal Speed

Yeah so Denji just dies.

 

[GunshyFever]

Star Platinum heart crush gg.

Edit: I forgot crushing denji's heart isn't a wincon, since its literally 8-A and can regen itself via ripcord.

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Something, something speed equal doesn't effect stands (for some fucvking reason), so SP blitzes.

 

[Chariot190]

Speed equal effects Stands, it's just relative like anything else. If Denji had an attack 10,000x quicker than him, it'd stay 10,000x quicker than him, it'd just be lowered comparatively.

Still an issue when Plat is punching like a fucktrillion times above Jotaro's combat speed.

And obviously speed unequal is even worse as Plat would literally be like a billion times Denji.

Unless Denji has long range AOE (he don't), it's kinda really hard to get past Plat if you're CQC only.

 

[Robo432343]

jotaro rizzed me in that pic

 

[Zabazab]

Massively Faster Than Light

If Denji was given a lighter, a strip of bacon, two pigeons, and a used cigarette, he could win though.

 

[Chariot190]

If Denji was given a lighter, a strip of bacon, two pigeons, and a used cigarette, he could win though.

The lighter and used cigs useless, Jotaro has his own.
The pigeons could help tho.

 

[DrGreyman]

What did my boy do to deserve this bro
he doesn't even have any good hax like the rest of the csm cast

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
denji taps out and gets pochita to eat the Stand Devil idfk

he turns every limb into a chainsaw and when star platinum tries to punch it just gets cut up
that's all I got

like the only thing denji has going for him is his nigh immortality, and at some point he's going to run out of blood so he'd just be a lump of technically not fully dead flesh

 

[Chariot190]

he turns every limb into a chainsaw and when star platinum tries to punch it just gets cut up
that's all I got

Bro's getting his arms ripped off.

That also begs the question, can anyone in CSM even see or interact with Stands.

 

[DrGreyman]

Bro's getting his arms ripped off.

That also begs the question, can anyone in CSM even see or interact with Stands.

Angel's katana can interact with ghosts
Future could probably see the effects of the stand and reverse engineer what caused it
Ghost 'sees fear' and is otherwise blind, so if it's a sapient stand?
Darkness could probably do something, though its abilities are so esoteric who knows
Falling could 100% just mess with gravity, and again if its sapient make the stand fall into despair
If Makima considers the user inferior to her the control would probably transfer to the stand, right?

Old Age specifically can interact with Hanged Man and Man in the Mirror, and no other stand lol

 

[SlendVeny]

Bro's getting his arms ripped off.

That also begs the question, can anyone in CSM even see or interact with Stands.

Yeah

 

[Chariot190]

Angel's katana can interact with ghosts
Future could probably see the effects of the stand and reverse engineer what caused it
Ghost 'sees fear' and is otherwise blind, so if it's a sapient stand?
Darkness could probably do something, though its abilities are so esoteric who knows
Falling could 100% just mess with gravity, and again if its sapient make the stand fall into despair
If Makima considers the user inferior to her the control would probably transfer to the stand, right?

Old Age specifically can interact with Hanged Man and Man in the Mirror, and no other stand lol

I know CSM has NPI, I'm asking if it's layered, same with ESP. Stands layered.

 

[Baken384]

Yall ain’t ready for the LS Meta. I’d be discussing it but sadly Star Platinum’s LS isn’t updated.

 

[Chariot190]

Yall ain’t ready for the LS Meta. I’d be discussing it but sadly Star Platinum’s LS isn’t updated.

He says as if everyone ever hasn't already heard him talk about it EXTENSIVELY in every wiki-adjacent chat known to man.

 

[CBslayeR]

Yall ain’t ready for the LS Meta. I’d be discussing it but sadly Star Platinum’s LS isn’t updated.

we're putting you in the brazen bull

 

[Unknownnah]

The EMP scaling comes first before the Class G.....

 

[Epiccheev]

Massively Faster Than Light

If Denji was given a lighter, a strip of bacon, two pigeons, and a used cigarette, he could win though.

Jotaro when Denji tries to sell him bacon-flavored luxury american cigarettes he rolled himself laced with 02 different strains of pidgeon cryptococcosis while also offering to light them for him:

 

[Just_Butchering]

Wait, why doesn't Speed Equalization affects stand?
If anything, the equalized speed should be for the stand itself, since the User's reactions scales to them anyways

 

[Emerald]

Bcs Stands are their own thing. It would be like equalizing John Wick's speed to his firearms

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

Denji (supergenius) created two different perpetual motion machines with limited resources that each destroyed a dimension. Godly BIQ

 

[Just_Butchering]

Bcs Stands are their own thing. It would be like equalizing John Wick's speed to his firearms

I mean, I get it as a technically, but c'mon, dude pretty much would only use his stand of fighting, why not equalized it there?
Jojo's Stands are can be a little limiting when finding opponents, but also adding this speed stuff is just impossible.

 

[Chariot190]

I mean, I get it as a technically, but c'mon, dude pretty much would only use his stand of fighting, why not equalized it there?
Jojo's Stands are can be a little limiting when finding opponents, but also adding this speed stuff is just impossible.

And John Wick almost exclusively uses guns.
The speed gap is part of the kit. It goes the other way too, stands slower than the main body's combat speed, get equalized relative to the host to be slower.

 

[Just_Butchering]

And John Wick almost exclusively uses guns.

No? He has a lot of H2H. And besides, he doesn't shoot a guy to throw hands for him

The speed gap is part of the kit. It goes the other way too, stands slower than the main body's combat speed, get equalized relative to the host to be slower.

Wouldn't that only make Joseph and Hol Horse a problem? And even then, I wouldn't say his stands have "combat speed" (a la Star Platinum) but attack speed (aka, John's pistols)

 

[noninho]

Ahm...poor Denji unless we can equalize all to Star Platinum.

 

[Chariot190]

No? He has a lot of H2H. And besides, he doesn't shoot a guy to throw hands for him

Having it doesn't change the fact he still shoots dudes all the time and pretending his guns the same speed as him is assbackwards.

Wouldn't that only make Joseph and Hol Horse a problem?

Yeah, they would, and other dudes who may or may not have profiles.

Don't matter who, fact is that's how it works.

And even then, I wouldn't say his stands have "combat speed" (a la Star Platinum) but attack speed (aka, John's pistols)

It doesn't matter what type of speed it is, it's a speed seperate from the main dude who's getting equalized.
All speeds, lower, higher, of any type, whether it be attack speed, reactions, etc, get equalized relative to the main combat speed. Which fyi for reference, that also means if Jotaro has like reaction or perception speed 1000x above his combat speed, yeah they'd get lowered, but only to the extent they retain that 1000x difference.

Star Platinum has different speed, it having different speed is a key feature, pretending it has the same speed, is just being ignorant. If your dude, for whatever reason, can't deal with getting blitzed exclusively within a 2m radius, then you shouldn't be making the match to begin with as that is like, literally jotaro's main gimmick.

 

[Chariot190]

Ahm...poor Denji unless we can equalize all to Star Platinum.

And then Jotaro is 1000x slower instead and the match can't be added because not allowed to blitz the normally quicker dude in speed equal

Just stop putting dudes who's only option is to throw hands against a dude who's whole speed thing is only useful within 2 meters of his ass

 

[Chariot190]

If anything, the equalized speed should be for the stand itself, since the User's reactions scales to them anyways

Also this isn't true, some Stands blitz their host, like Echoes with Koichi. It's case by case, usually they don't scale.

Also we triple posting apparently.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And then Jotaro is 1000x slower instead and the match can't be added because not allowed to blitz the normally quicker dude in speed equal

Dude he literally fought DIO who is just as fast as SP without stand stfu

 

[Chariot190]

Dude he literally fought DIO who is just as fast as SP without stand stfu

Things that aren't actually true, more at 11.

 

[Chariot190]

Things that never happened.
1. Dio pre-High physically reacting to Star Platinum. The closest is him reacting to Plat reeling up a punch, and then completely failing to avoid the punch, getting his skull caved in despite the ample time and ability to dodge if he was the same speed, even attempting to rely on time stop to avoid it instead of just moving back like 1m or shift his body slightly
2. Jotaro literally doing anything at all to say he scales to Dio physically (which would be narrative breaking anyway) as everytime anything happens it's Plat taking action, not Jotaro.

But yep go on how Jotaro actually has MFTL+ combat speed because he fought Dio, in a fight where he himself never dodged or threw a single punch or actually did anything at all.

Literally only canon this applies is Capcom and OVA.

 

[StrymULTRA]

1. Dio pre-High physically reacting to Star Platinum. The closest is him reacting to Plat reeling up a punch, and then completely failing to avoid the punch, getting his skull caved in despite the ample time and ability to dodge if he was the same speed, even attempting to rely on time stop to avoid it instead of just moving back like 1m or shift his body slightly

He quite literally is MFTL+ physically tho...?

2. Jotaro literally doing anything at all to say he scales to Dio physically (which would be narrative breaking anyway) as everytime anything happens it's Plat taking action, not Jotaro.

That's a strawman. I only said Jotaro can fight just fine people fast like SP right because of his reactions and stand.

 

[Chariot190]

He quite literally is MFTL+ physically tho...?

Being MFTL+ and being MFTL+ on Plat's level, is not the same thing. Plat itself is two (maybe 3) speed blitzes above Chariot at that point. Dio being able to react to Chariot just fine, is not the same as him barely able to react to Plat and even failing to really at points. He straight up fails to dodge a punch he can tell is coming like 3 times.

There's a gap, a hefty one as it's blitzed worthy. You're conflating tiering with actual values. A 1000c dude, and a 100000000c dude are both MFTL+, doesn't mean there isn't a difference.

That's a strawman. I only said Jotaro can fight just fine people fast like SP right because of his reactions and stand.

It isn't a strawman, we're talking about combat speed and how speed equal works as speed equal equalizes the combat speed with the following speeds relative to that. Jotaro's combat speed is slow as **** compared to Plat. As in, who gives a shit? We're talking about combat speed and how speed equal works in regards to it, nobody said he didn't have MFTL+ reactions/perception, but he ain't throwing hands at that speed, his combat speed is literally several blitzes below even his own perception, which in and of itself is basically a blitz below Plat's speed at its peak. Also no, not "because of his Stand", him having Plat has nothing to do with his own reactions, a user can have recations slower than their Stand, they often do, hell Jotaro himself literally does, in some cases it can be excessive like Koichi with Act 2 blitzing him, and Act being even quikcer and omega blitzing him.

Which is to say, what are you yapping about? Jotaro never did anything to have his combat speed be MFTL+ on the level we're talking about, let alone because "he fought Dio" as he at no point ever did anything to enable scaling.

So instead of coming in, somehow misunderstanding the conversation and telling people to shut the **** up due to your own misinformed opinions, actually READ what's being talked about it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It isn't a strawman, we're talking about combat speed and how speed equal works as speed equal equalizes the combat speed with the following speeds relative to that. Jotaro's combat speed is slow as **** compared to Plat. As in, who gives a shit? We're talking about combat speed and how speed equal works in regards to it, nobody said he didn't have MFTL+ reactions/perception, but he ain't throwing hands at that speed, his combat speed is literally several blitzes below even his own perception, which in and of itself is basically a blitz below Plat's speed at its peak. Also no, not "because of his Stand", him having Plat has nothing to do with his own reactions, a user can have recations slower than their Stand, they often do, hell Jotaro himself literally does, in some cases it can be excessive like Koichi with Act 2 blitzing him, and Act being even quikcer and omega blitzing him.

Which is to say, what are you yapping about? Jotaro never did anything to have his combat speed be MFTL+ on the level we're talking about, let alone because "he fought Dio" as he at no point ever did anything to enable scaling.

I can tell you were waiting the excuse to write this wall of text.

No, I didn't say that Jotaro has Combat speed that high, once. I only said that despite lacking MFTL combat, he has still the ability to fight such opponents thanks to other stuff.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Jojo stand users to any non-stand user:

Anyways, Denji gets vaporized due to Jotaro's sheer presence.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Jojo characters to any non-stand user:

Part 1/2 charas tho...

 

[Rikimarox2]

Part 1/2 charas tho...

Fixed it for u.

 

[Chariot190]

I can tell you were waiting the excuse to write this wall of text.

Not really, I don't really expect people to come out with yap outta nowhere.

No, I didn't say that Jotaro has Combat speed that high, once. I only said that despite lacking MFTL combat, he has still the ability to fight such opponents thanks to other stuff.

No you didn't. You didn't say anything really. You responded to a comment talking about how Jotaro would, in fact, be exponentially slower than his foe due to speed equal rules, which in and of itself would invalidate the match due to blitzing foes quicker than you via speed equal loopholes being actually just not ok.

That was the topic. You yapped in with literally just

Dude he literally fought DIO who is just as fast as SP without stand stfu

Which, isn't what you're now claiming you said. You replying to a comment talking about combat speed, and going nuh uh he fought Dio, doesn't at all convey you mean reactions. Secondly it isn't even true, DIO isn't as fast as Plat, he's borderline blitzed by him.
And then "stfu" because imagine being civil.

Which, put simply, you're just backpedaling. Which none of this even matters, it's just cope, if you need to deliberately nerf a dude via speed equal, and then take an unprecedent turn to nerf it to the point it wouldn't even be added all because you picked a dude who doesn't have attacks with a beyond 2m AOE, should probably just take that as a big red flag the dude shouldn't be fighting him to begin with.

 

[Chariot190]

Jojo stand users to any non-stand user:

Anyways, Denji gets vaporized due to Jotaro's sheer presence.

Literally just pick a character who can shoot like, explosions bigger than 2m or something. Both TW and Plat have a stated flaw in their range being so short means they can't use speed to take out foes at a distance and they struggle to deal with long range attacks with AOE, moreso for Plat given like, yeah Plat can protect Jotaro, but kinda hard to protect from a big AOE that expands past what he can block tho and where just deflecting a bullet-like projectile isn't possible such as AOE.

The speed shit is literally just within 2 meters, if the character in question has options beyond punching it's not some impossible hurdle to overcome. The worst part is, the speed isn't even the main problem, like yeah no shit you're gonna get rocked by the punch ghost you can't see, sense, or touch all while he smashes your skull in, speed advantage or not.